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  1. #1
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    More Obama/Holder grandstanding and pandering to their base...stupid

    http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/...e-crime/nN5pR/

    SANFORD, Fla. — WFTV has learned charges against George Zimmerman could be getting more serious.
    State prosecutors said Zimmerman, a neighborhood watchman, profiled and stalked 17-year-old Trayvon Martin before killing him, so the FBI is now looking into charging him with a hate crime.
    Zimmerman admitted to killing Martin in February during a confrontation. However, he claims the shooting was in self-defense. He's facing a second-degree murder charge, which carries a maximum possible sentence of life in prison without the possibility of parole. But if Zimmerman is charged and found guilty of a federal hate crime involving murder, he could face the death penalty.
    FBI investigators are actively questioning witnesses in the retreat at the Twin Lakes neighborhood, seeking evidence for a possible federal hate crime charge.
    Martin was unarmed when he was shot to death, police said, and some accuse Zimmerman of targeting the teenager solely because of the color of his skin.
    WFTV legal analyst Bill Sheaffer said federal prosecutors would have to prove the hate crime to charge Zimmerman, though.
    “What the government would have to prove is that Mr. Zimmerman acted out of hatred toward African-Americans. That's why he came into contact with him. That's why he shot and killed him," Sheaffer said.
    Sheaffer said a federal hate crime murder charge could bring more serious consequences than the second-degree murder charge Zimmerman faces now.
    “Mr. Zimmerman could be punished by up to life in prison or even the death penalty,” said Sheaffer.
    Zimmerman said he used deadly force in self-defense after Martin punched him, knocked him to the ground and repeatedly slammed his head against a sidewalk.
    As of late Monday, Zimmerman’s attorney, Mark O’Mara, told WFTV that he's gotten the first prosecution do ents containing the evidence against his client. O’Mara said he's gotten a redacted witness list with 22 witnesses listed only as numbers.
    O’Mara said he believes there are recorded interviews and some do ents, but he said he hasn't even opened it yet.
    Prosecutors are required to release information to the defense and the public
    However, O'Mara, wants Circuit Judge Kenneth Lester Jr. to keep some of the key evidence, especially witness statements, out of the public eye by writing a motion to keep it sealed.
    O'Mara posted a statement on Zimmerman's website that said, "We doubt any of them (witnesses) enjoy the scrutiny they are under due to the coincidence of their involvement in such a high-profile matter."
    In the meantime, a photograph recently surfaced which is said to show Zimmerman's mother in the arms of her grandfather, who is black.
    Zimmerman's mother testified at his bond hearing that she has met the black child whom he mentored and even risked his safety in a dangerous neighborhood to do it, because he didn't want to abandon the child.
    State prosecutors said Zimmerman gave several inconsistent statements to Sanford police, which is, in part, their basis for charging him with second-degree murder.

  2. #2
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    handing over a numbered list without names surely can't count as fair disclosure to the defense. that struck me as a little weird, but it I was also impressed by O'Mara's zeal to bid for even more things to be sealed. it looks inequitable for one side to be protected by court ordered secrecy and the other not.

  3. #3
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    most particularly when the other party is the US Government

  4. #4
    Scrumtrulescent
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    handing over a numbered list without names surely can't count as fair disclosure to the defense. that struck me as a little weird, but it I was also impressed by O'Mara's zeal to bid for even more things to be sealed. it looks inequitable for one side to be protected by court ordered secrecy and the other not.
    Is that really all that big a big deal before the decision whether or not to file charges has been made? Seems like the judge doesn't want witnesses to get harrassed which IMO is a legit concern. Granted those concerns shouldn't trump Zimmerman's right to full and fair disclosure, but doesn't it make some sense to wait and see if there are going to be charges first?

  5. #5
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Is that really all that big a big deal before the decision whether or not to file charges has been made? Seems like the judge doesn't want witnesses to get harrassed which IMO is a legit concern. Granted those concerns shouldn't trump Zimmerman's right to full and fair disclosure, but doesn't it make some sense to wait and see if there are going to be charges first?


    I'm confused by your response. There is already a charge of 2nd Degree Murder.

    They are doing discovery in preparation for trial.

    I agree with Winehole...it seems that the defense would need to know who said what in order to fully understand the context of the witness statements.

  6. #6
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    [/U][/B]

    I'm confused by your response. There is already a charge of 2nd Degree Murder.

    They are doing discovery in preparation for trial.

    I agree with Winehole...it seems that the defense would need to know who said what in order to fully understand the context of the witness statements.
    I thought the statements in question were related to the feds investigation for the hate crime?

  7. #7
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Is that really all that big a big deal before the decision whether or not to file charges has been made? Seems like the judge doesn't want witnesses to get harrassed which IMO is a legit concern. Granted those concerns shouldn't trump Zimmerman's right to full and fair disclosure, but doesn't it make some sense to wait and see if there are going to be charges first?
    good point.


    (meekly withdraws)

  8. #8
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    22 witnesses? he must have shared his true feelings with several different people.

  9. #9
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    good point.


    (meekly withdraws)
    CC has me second guessing myself.

  10. #10
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    CC has me second guessing myself.
    why?

  11. #11
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    about what?

  12. #12
    Scrumtrulescent
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    Whether or not the info the judge is keeping under wraps is related to the federal hate crime case or the state's murder case.

  13. #13
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    o'mara wasn't exactly specific about things he wants hidden.

  14. #14
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Whether or not the info the judge is keeping under wraps is related to the federal hate crime case or the state's murder case.
    hmm. at first I was confused about that, then I had myself convinced that the sealing related to information disclosed prior to the possible filing of federal civil rights charges.

    did something make you doubt that? just curious.

  15. #15
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    the FBI is "looking-in" to charging him with a hate crime. why should they give o'mara this discovery before making the decision?

  16. #16
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    hmm. at first I was confused about that, then I had myself convinced that the sealing related to information disclosed prior to the possible filing of federal civil rights charges.

    did something make you doubt that? just curious.
    I had the same first impression that you did, but CC's comment left me wondering whether the feds were mulling over the same stuff the state had or whether they had gathered their own.

  17. #17
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    Y'all are confused. The discovery in question is related to the states charges. It had already been scheduled to be released to the defense yesterday before the news about the FBI hate crime investigation.

  18. #18
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    Y'all are confused. The discovery in question is related to the states charges. It had already been scheduled to be released to the defense yesterday before the news about the FBI hate crime investigation.
    he wants much of it hidden. how do you know he's not getting all the discovery from the state charge?

  19. #19
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    lol about the picture being released.

  20. #20
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    he wants much of it hidden. how do you know he's not getting all the discovery from the state charge?
    I suspect he wants it hidden just to avoid the next wave of media frenzy when it's released. It's gonna be hard enough to get a jury picked as it is...

  21. #21
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    sure, but he's already complaining publicly about it, and he said he hasn't even opened some of the evidence yet.

  22. #22
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    releasing that picture was pure bush league.

  23. #23
    Mr. John Wayne CosmicCowboy's Avatar
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    sure, but he's already complaining publicly about it, and he said he hasn't even opened some of the evidence yet.
    Look...the way it normally works is that when the prosecutor releases it's evidence to the defense attorney it becomes "public knowledge" that same evidence becomes available for access and use by the news media. In some high profile cases the judges have used their discretion and kept the evidence sealed (from the public) until trial. That is what Zimmerman's attorney is asking for and all the major media outlets are pe ioning for their release. There is no doubt that this is a high profile case and that the judge is within his right to keep the evidence sealed (from the public) until the trial.

  24. #24
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    sure, i get that.

    on another front, i don't think he should have waived his rights to a speedy trial.

  25. #25
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    I suspect he wants it hidden just to avoid the next wave of media frenzy when it's released. It's gonna be hard enough to get a jury picked as it is...
    Yeah. the last time a crime with this type of profile happened the outcome resulted in race riots around the country. I can understand the desire to tread lightly and not make a spectacle of this afterward for all manner of reasons.

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