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  1. #7526
    ...a.k.a. mAtT!iC3 mudyez's Avatar
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    Everyone is calling Sheppard a Houston guy but well...isn't he a perfect fit with our team as well?
    As fun as it would be to have a true PG, we will run a lot of offense though Wembys hands anyway and inverted Wemby/Sheppard pick and pops sound nice to me.
    We might even be able to get a true PG with the other pick or next year with Sheppard not clogging our rotation, instead just playing off guard.

    If we take Dillingham/Topic we are all in and can't really go BPA later. Topic if healthy seems to have the upside to be special. Dilly looks to much of a microwave sixth man to me. Not really bad, but there are plenty of them in the league now.

    At the curent point my Big Board looks like this:
    1) Sheppard
    2) Risacher
    3) Sarr
    4) Buzelis
    5) Topic
    6) Castle
    7) Salaun
    8) Knecht
    9) Dillingham
    10) Williams

    ...but would avoid any combination between Sarr/Buz/Salaun/Topic as we should at least insert one shooter to our team.

    BTW: Like 15 years ago I was jerking of to the idea od having like 5-6 french players, with the idea of them being a cohesive unit with national team experience. If we end up with Risacher+Salaun, the dream is alive...meaning if we get Risacher with #4, I would Salaun one or two spots on my board.

  2. #7527
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    Honestly if the spurs' main targets are gone by 8 and there are no trade partners to be had to move down, I'd rather take Clingan if he's still on the board rather than a flyer on an athlete who has no idea how to play basketball or overrated volume scorer who can't defend or playmake. Injury concerns aside, at worst you run him as a backup big for 16 minutes a game and have the best rim protection in the league for 48 minutes. Spurs are losing non-Wemby minutes by so much and this would go a long way to improving that. Run him with Wemby for heavier minutes against elite post-up bigs.

    As to whether he can play with Wemby, who knows? He can't shoot and has very little hope of ever becoming a good shooter, but he's a wide body who's pretty mobile with almost a 2:1 AST:TO as a 20 year old which is a rarity for bigs. Run him as a DHO hub if you draft Dillingham or Sheppard or some other shooter in the future and let him playmake out of the short roll. It's not an action you probably want to run with Wemby a ton because 1) Wemby's skinny and 2) you don't want defenders constantly running into Wemby's legs, but it probably works for Clingan.
    Let's see Wemby develop the Durant side of his game getting easy shots as a cutter or jump shooter 10 minutes a game, or put Clingan in the dunker spot occasionally. Just don't play him with Sochan and Wemby both and you can probably be ok. Given his injury history, size, and high foul rate you're probably not going to run him more than 25-30 minutes a game anyway, but he can have an elite impact during that time.

    Comparisons to Poeltl are underselling him by a large amount, as he absolutely waffle-crushes him in pretty much every defensive metric at the same age - blocks, FG% against, DEFR, dBPM, dBPR while being significantly longer and a better passer. If you comp him to Walker Kessler, I actually like Clingan significantly more. He doesn't block as many shots, but still has an elite block rate. More importantly, Clingan seems more positionally sound and is better at shutting down the paint completely as opposed to Kessler who sometimes found himself out of position chasing blocks. I think he honestly has all-defense potential as a drop big and his passing and feel as well as his success in Hurley's system. If it doesn't work out, just trade him for an asset down the line. The number of skilled bigs in the past 5 years has exploded and I think that truly elite defensive bigs, especially those with the defensive impact of Clingan, will get increasingly more valuable in the future.

    Ultimately, would I rather have Sheppard and Castle, or maybe Dillingham and Castle. But if the ping pong balls go against the spurs and Clingan drops while the Spurs' primary targets get picked, I have no issues if they decide to pull the trigger on Clingan and at the very least keep him out of the hands of Memphis or OKC.
    Last edited by SpursBills; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:07 PM.

  3. #7528
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    So we know Primo was drafted to be a PG or at worst a secondary creator. Sochan was given the point guard job until we finally decided it was ruining the offense. I’m still not sure the point Sochan thing was truly to make him a PG or just to immerse him into a playmaker role since we didn’t have a legit starting it PG anyway. In a way it would give him a ton of connective tissue experience that help him become a secondary creator.

    All of that is a long way of asking should we be thinking the Spurs prefer a PG like Castle and Topic? They are big PGs who are connective tissue players rather than a small scorer like Dilly or a smaller framed shooter like Sheppard?

  4. #7529
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    Based on the Spurs' preferences in the past, I think that they like having a combo guard running the point. With that in mind, I wanted to look at one of my favorite combo guard prospects that hasn't gotten as much here: Devin Carter

    The guy is currently mocked in the mid-first so he'd be a reach with either our pick or the conveyed Raptors pick, but he has a lot of indicators suggesting that if only a few things break right, he might be one of the most valuable players to come out of the draft.

    Overview
    First and foremost, he's probably the second best perimeter defender in the draft after Ryan Dunn. I'd say he probably has the best lateral quickness of anyone in the draft. His numbers support that as well - STL% and BLK% of nearly 3 each are elite numbers for a guard. Additionally, unlike other defense-first upperclassman guards who busted (are busting) out of the league (Davion Mitc , Jevon Carter), he's got the size and athleticism (26 dunks on the year) to back up his defensive instincts. He's a legit 6'3" with a 6'9" wingspan, and is also an elite rebounding guard - his 14 TRB% compares to that of much taller guys like Ryan Dunn and even Filipowski. He's a combo guard with a big wingspan who plays even bigger, which allows him to hold up on switches while his lateral agility potentially allows him to become a weapon against small shifty guards.

    Offensively this year, he's taken a leap. Ever since Bryce Hopkins went down for the season in early January, Carter's been by far the #1 option for Providence and has put up some monster statlines against good compe ion. 28/11/6/4/1 against #18 Creighton. 24/15/4/2/2 against #2 UConn. 27/8/3/2/1 against #10 Marquette. This is with getting consistently double-teamed as the primary offensive option while still putting up elite defensive numbers. Since Hopkins went down after the new year he's been averaging 22/9/4 on good efficiency.

    Shot Diet - Rim pressure and 3s
    The biggest question for Carter, like most other defensive guard prospects, is his 3 point shooting. As a bigger defensive guard with high rebounding numbers and elite DAWG/48, my comps for him include Kris Dunn, GP II, and Josh Hart. Dunn and GP II had a lower shooting signal with lower FT%, lower 3pt volume, and lower 3 pt%. It is unsurprising that their outside shooting never came around, although they have found pro success by utilizing their defensive prowess, athleticism, and frame. Hart is a more apt comparison, as a league-average streaky shooter with a similar FT% and a slightly higher 3 pt% on lower volume. However, I would argue that the types of 3s that Carter is shooting (pull-ups, deep 3s) are more difficult as the primary option compared to Hart's shot diet and there is more hope for Carter.

    With regards to rim pressure, excluding Nikola Topic, Devin Carter has the best combination of rim attempts and rim finishing (65%) of any of the guard prospects in the draft. By far his biggest weakness is in the midrange, but if you look at his shot diet, it's essentially a modern NBA shot diet with the vast majority of attempts being rim attempts and 3s.

    Fit for the Spurs
    Interestingly, Carter's combination of frame, defensive versatility, all around goodness, and unfortunate hairline gives him an upside comp very near and dear to most Spurs fans:

    https://www.tankathon.com/players/co...-derrick-white

    Just like Derrick developed his defense to become one of the best guard defenders in the NBA in spite of an anemic college steal rate, Carter would have to develop his playmaking chops and continue the development of his outside shot to get to where White is today. This is not impossible - Carter's shown the ability to make advanced PNR reads and hit tight windows with his passing. His shooting has improved year over year. He has an NBA dad who undoubtedly showed him how much work it takes to make it in the league and he by all accounts has a great work ethic. However, if those things do develop appropriately, you're looking at what is probably the ideal point guard next to Wemby, a switchable guard who gives you a POA defender on fast guards to pair with Sochan's ability to defend bigger forwards and who doesn't die on screens or get hunted in mismatches, as well as a guy who can take a portion of the playmaking demands while providing spot of shooting and rim pressure in doses.

    Draft Projection
    I think he's going to be drafted late and outperform his draft projection. As far as upperclassmen go, I'd rather have Carter than Knecht for sure but they're completely different types of players. I basically put Carter, Sheppard, Castle, and McCain in the same category as combo guards with varying levels of defensive versatility and shooting. With regards to fit on the Spurs, I probably still put Sheppard first due to his jumper and defensive playmaking. However, I suspect that even though Carter's going to be the last one of the 4 drafted, he won't be the worst pro of the 4. Doesn't make sense to draft him with the Spurs natural pick, but if a trade-down opportunity is there I'd look very hard into drafting him as a 22 year old ready-made defender who doesn't need nearly as much developmental resources as a teenager but still with significant upside potential.
    This excellent analysis is worth a re-read.

  5. #7530
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    Say we make a good choice at #4 (Buzelis, Holland, Dillingham, Sheppard) at 4... we could be left with a real Sophie's Choice of Topic or Salaun or Williams at 8. it, give me Devin Carter or Knecht at that point.
    I would not mind Carter at all he has almost elite defense it was his offense that was always in question and he answered it this year. He instantly makes us a much better defensive team and he still can bring the offensive shooting that we need to get spacing for Wemby

  6. #7531
    Veteran scott's Avatar
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    I would not mind Carter at all he has almost elite defense it was his offense that was always in question and he answered it this year. He instantly makes us a much better defensive team and he still can bring the offensive shooting that we need to get spacing for Wemby
    Yeah I like Carter a lot, he is solidly in my 2nd tier, above a lot of prospects that most would rank higher. Wouldn't mind the "reach" for him at 8 at all.

  7. #7532
    Veteran heyheymymy's Avatar
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    BTW: Like 15 years ago I was jerking of to the idea od having like 5-6 french players, with the idea of them being a cohesive unit with national team experience. If we end up with Risacher+Salaun, the dream is alive...meaning if we get Risacher with #4, I would Salaun one or two spots on my board.
    Jones
    Vassell
    Risacher
    Salaun
    Wemby

    triple French lineup is très bien

  8. #7533
    Veteran cutewizard's Avatar
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  9. #7534
    Veteran cutewizard's Avatar
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  10. #7535
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  11. #7536
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    Everyone is calling Sheppard a Houston guy but well...isn't he a perfect fit with our team as well?
    As fun as it would be to have a true PG, we will run a lot of offense though Wembys hands anyway and inverted Wemby/Sheppard pick and pops sound nice to me.
    We might even be able to get a true PG with the other pick or next year with Sheppard not clogging our rotation, instead just playing off guard.

    If we take Dillingham/Topic we are all in and can't really go BPA later. Topic if healthy seems to have the upside to be special. Dilly looks to much of a microwave sixth man to me. Not really bad, but there are plenty of them in the league now.

    At the curent point my Big Board looks like this:
    1) Sheppard
    2) Risacher
    3) Sarr
    4) Buzelis
    5) Topic
    6) Castle
    7) Salaun
    8) Knecht
    9) Dillingham
    10) Williams

    ...but would avoid any combination between Sarr/Buz/Salaun/Topic as we should at least insert one shooter to our team.

    BTW: Like 15 years ago I was jerking of to the idea od having like 5-6 french players, with the idea of them being a cohesive unit with national team experience. If we end up with Risacher+Salaun, the dream is alive...meaning if we get Risacher with #4, I would Salaun one or two spots on my board.
    They’re calling him a Houston guy because Houston picks before we do.

  12. #7537
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Yeah I like Carter a lot, he is solidly in my 2nd tier, above a lot of prospects that most would rank higher. Wouldn't mind the "reach" for him at 8 at all.
    Yeah, that's where I'm at. This sounds crazy, but going through all the top prospects, everyone has major holes in their game, usually bad defense or bad shooting, but Devin Carter seems like the only player without glaring weaknesses. Not saying his ceiling is as high as the others, but it's hard for me to ignore how much Carter offers without the obvious problems.

    So in this scenario, assuming Devin Carter is there at 8, Spurs take Castle at 4? Just spitballing.

  13. #7538
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    Yeah, that's where I'm at. This sounds crazy, but going through all the top prospects, everyone has major holes in their game, usually bad defense or bad shooting, but Devin Carter seems like the only player without glaring weaknesses. Not saying his ceiling is as high as the others, but it's hard for me to ignore how much Carter offers without the obvious problems.

    So in this scenario, assuming Devin Carter is there at 8, Spurs take Castle at 4? Just spitballing.
    I'd love to have both tbh, with a preference for Carter over Castle.

    But I'd also like someone like Edey to free up Wemby from taking a pounding. The team gets outmuscled on the regular, and I hate to see Wemby setting picks with his slender frame. Edey thrives on the physical stuff, and his bully ball will be a load for any team to deal with.

  14. #7539
    Believe. couchman's Avatar
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    I’ve liked Carter for a long time.
    I would certainly take him over Tiddy

  15. #7540
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    I had it with our PG who can’t shoot. I’d welcome a Reed/Wemby pick and pop. I dreaded those Curry shots at slightest opening. The only thing is Spurs glaring point-of-attack which I warming on Castle, plus defending bigger guards like Doncic, JDubs, Morant (not big but athletic). This Vassell and Sochan really need to step up to make Reed work. I see Dilly as a Tony Parker, who can break defenses hence creating opportunities. There’s argument for the 3 however the Spurs want to go, and I’m fine with it. If they take Castle, I hope they take Risacher shooting at 4.

  16. #7541
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    It's uncanny how nearly identical Bronny James's combine numbers were to Reed Sheppard's.

    Lane Agility
    Bronny: 10.96
    Sheppard: 10.96

    Shuttle Run
    Bronny: 3.02
    Sheppard: 3.03

    Three Quarter Sprint
    Bronny: 3.09
    Sheppard: 3.08

    Standing Vertical Leap
    Bronny: 32"
    Sheppard: 32.5"

    Max Vertical Leap
    Bronny: 40.5"
    Sheppard: 42"

    https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/comb..._VERTICAL_LEAP
    if Bronny had had Reed’s season he would be the consensus #1 pick without any doubt!

  17. #7542
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    I had it with our PG who can’t shoot. I’d welcome a Reed/Wemby pick and pop. I dreaded those Curry shots at slightest opening. The only thing is Spurs glaring point-of-attack which I warming on Castle, plus defending bigger guards like Doncic, JDubs, Morant (not big but athletic). This Vassell and Sochan really need to step up to make Reed work. I see Dilly as a Tony Parker, who can break defenses hence creating opportunities. There’s argument for the 3 however the Spurs want to go, and I’m fine with it. If they take Castle, I hope they take Risacher shooting at 4.
    They’ll never get Castle/Risacher at 4/8, and you probably need to get comfortable with the fact that every player in this draft has warts and holes in their game. I like him, but Reed is going to get hunted and punished on defense by bigger and better guards.

  18. #7543
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    It's uncanny how nearly identical Bronny James's combine numbers were to Reed Sheppard's.

    Lane Agility
    Bronny: 10.96
    Sheppard: 10.96

    Shuttle Run
    Bronny: 3.02
    Sheppard: 3.03

    Three Quarter Sprint
    Bronny: 3.09
    Sheppard: 3.08

    Standing Vertical Leap
    Bronny: 32"
    Sheppard: 32.5"

    Max Vertical Leap
    Bronny: 40.5"
    Sheppard: 42"

    https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/comb..._VERTICAL_LEAP
    You can argue the same with Wemby and Bol Bol, but the product is not the same.

  19. #7544
    Veteran exstatic's Avatar
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    You can argue the same with Wemby and Bol Bol, but the product is not the same.
    Exactly. Don’t fall in love with measurables and anthro. They still need to be able to play basketball. Weighting this kind of too highly caused guys like SGA and Book to drop to the late lottery, while lesser more athletic candidates were drafted ahead of them.

  20. #7545
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    They’ll never get Castle/Risacher at 4/8, and you probably need to get comfortable with the fact that every player in this draft has warts and holes in their game. I like him, but Reed is going to get hunted and punished on defense by bigger and better guards.
    These are 18-19 years old. It will be up to Spurs scout and eventually development staff to work on those weaknesses. People argue that Reed is short but he’s the average height for NBA PG with Morant, Fox, Brunson, VanFleet all performing great. And Reed is not a pushover who prides on his defense 2.5 steals and almost a block per game. Spurs had Tony Parker 6’2” for 17 years. It’s up to Vassell/Sochan to be the new Green/Bowen and help defend.

    There’s a good argument for drafting any of Reed, Dilly, Castle. It’s best if Spurs could come out with shooting and athletic wing from this draft. But then again there is free agency and trades also so it’s not like the Spurs have to get everything from this draft. Maybe we get Ingram and that solves the athletic wing need, then maybe Salaun would be a great pickup with a high ceiling in 2-3 years. But I really am getting excited with a Reed/Wemby pick and pop, like Stockton/Malone. Reed is a high character who’s a team-first guy. He says he could be the water boy as long as they’re winning. Who says that?

  21. #7546
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    I'm not sure that his game will translate into the NBA. He doesn't seem to have a fast first step on offense or quick lateral step on defense, his strength is what allows him to win a lot of his matchups. That won't be as much of an advantage in the NBA.

  22. #7547
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    I really feel like first three picks are gonna be: Sarr, Clingan & Reed in some order. That’s my gut analysis. I think the elite shooting of Reed will push him up there.

    so if that’s the case, which do you prefer? Risacher or Castle at #4?

  23. #7548
    Body Of Work Mr. Body's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that his game will translate into the NBA. He doesn't seem to have a fast first step on offense or quick lateral step on defense, his strength is what allows him to win a lot of his matchups. That won't be as much of an advantage in the NBA.
    You're more or less describing Jalen Williams.

    Not the same player, but strength can really matter for a guard.

  24. #7549
    Veteran John B's Avatar
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    I really feel like first three picks are gonna be: Sarr, Clingan & Reed in some order. That’s my gut analysis. I think the elite shooting of Reed will push him up there.

    so if that’s the case, which do you prefer? Risacher or Castle at #4?
    If Reed is gone then I’d take Risacher and hope Castle is still available at 8. Posters here are saying teams at 5-7 picks don’t need a PG so any of Castle/Dilly could be available.

  25. #7550
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    We’ve reached an information impasse. Everyone has their pets. That probably won’t change until stuff starts leaking from team workouts.

    Not sure how to do it, but would be cool to do daily polls to see what (realistic) combo people prefer, and to see how that changes over time.

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