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They didn't mention whether that same player is allowed to land from said jump in bounds (which Waiters does). And yeah, the Spurs lost the game by themselves for the most part. I just enjoy knowing about rules/making fun of refs.
Correct1) 5 second violation should've been called.
2) Foul wasn't called
3) Waiters jumped to throw the ball..which is also a penalty.
Ref was less then 5ft away and missed it all.
They didn't mention whether that same player is allowed to land from said jump in bounds (which Waiters does). And yeah, the Spurs lost the game by themselves for the most part. I just enjoy knowing about rules/making fun of refs.
That's the predictable, cliche for most in these situations, but it's irrelevant. If deserve had anything to do with winning, the Warriors would have a lot less wins this season. This has been an issue with this team the past two seasons though: They almost never win games they don't deserve.
Also, it's always the Spurs on the receiving end of these against elite teams, in the playoffs. It's never one of the league's it teams.
Usually I agree with this logic, but by saying they "didn't deserve the W", I wasn't referring to their performance for the entire game, but rather what occurred in the final sequence..
The bad no-call led to Green stripping Durant and getting the ball, which subsequently created a potential 3 on 1 opportunity..if you ask Pop if he would take a 3 on 1 opportunity vs. a timeout with 13 seconds left, there's a good chance he would take the former..
Realistically, the possession the Spurs got out of stealing the inbound pass was probably better than what they would have gotten from a dead ball, especially considering how bad this team has been on set plays in clutch time the past 3 years..
Build a bridge, get over it.
Fair enough, I'm just sick of the Spurs being on the receiving end of these.
Indeed. It's amazing the Spurs have the 5 les they do considering how many, or lackthereof, key playoff games they've "stolen." The contrast here were the Lakers, who always pulled wins from the jaws of defeat somehow. Spurs le wins have always been rather dominant runs with few "steals."
The only games we stole were game 5 of the 2005 Finals and Game 6 of the 2003 WCF, when Kerr brought us back from 12 down in the 4th. But that Mavericks team, with or without Dirk, was terrible defensively, so it wasn't surprising we were able to charge back. And we stole a few against the Suns, but it's the Suns
Meanwhile, we've been on the receiving end of:
2002 Lakers coming back in every 4th quarter (we held a 4th quarter lead in all games, and the series still went only 5 games).
0.4.
The Manu on Dirk foul.
Blew a 20 point 3rd quarter lead in game 1 of the 2008 WCF. Blew an 18 point lead in game 5 of that same series.
Blew an 18 point lead in game 6 of the 2012 WCF. Was also the second time the Spurs have been backdoor swept in the Pop/Duncan era.
6
Game 7 in last season's first round. Spurs had multiple late leads in the 4th and couldn't in' close.
I think the differences here vis a vis a team like the Lakers was that Phil wasn't afraid to play Kobe 48 minutes and Shaq 43-45 minutes. And I think Shaq has a few 48 minute playoff games. Pop is obsessed and/or overly concerned with player stamina or just has a massive ego and wants to prove that one of his "clever" Frankenstein rotations will pay off and make him look like a genius. He killed the 2013 le with that ty rotation to start the 4th. He played Udoka more minutes than Bowen in the '08 WCF. Played Gary Neal way too many in' minutes in the 2012 WCF. Sat Manu in game 1 of the 2011 1st round. And of course, didn't have Kawhi let it all hang out last night (36 minutes WTF?) and killed the momentum we ended the 3rd on by shuffling out one of the worst lineups imaginable.
Training is better than ever. There's 500 TV timeouts per game in the playoffs. There is no excuse to not play your best players 40 plus minutes per game.
The only games we stole were game 5 of the 2005 Finals and Game 6 of the 2003 WCF, when Kerr brought us back from 12 down in the 4th. But that Mavericks team, with or without Dirk, was terrible defensively, so it wasn't surprising we were able to charge back. And we stole a few against the Suns, but it's the Suns
Meanwhile, we've been on the receiving end of:
2002 Lakers coming back in every 4th quarter (we held a 4th quarter lead in all games, and the series still went only 5 games).
0.4.
The Manu on Dirk foul.
Blew a 20 point 3rd quarter lead in game 1 of the 2008 WCF. Blew an 18 point lead in game 5 of that same series.
Blew an 18 point lead in game 6 of the 2012 WCF. Was also the second time the Spurs have been backdoor swept in the Pop/Duncan era.
6
Game 7 in last season's first round. Spurs had multiple late leads in the 4th and couldn't in' close.
I think the differences here vis a vis a team like the Lakers was that Phil wasn't afraid to play Kobe 48 minutes and Shaq 43-45 minutes. And I think Shaq has a few 48 minute playoff games. Pop is obsessed and/or overly concerned with player stamina or just has a massive ego and wants to prove that one of his "clever" Frankenstein rotations will pay off and make him look like a genius. He killed the 2013 le with that ty rotation to start the 4th. He played Udoka more minutes than Bowen in the '08 WCF. Played Gary Neal way too many in' minutes in the 2012 WCF. Sat Manu in game 1 of the 2011 1st round. And of course, didn't have Kawhi let it all hang out last night (36 minutes WTF?) and killed the momentum we ended the 3rd on by shuffling out one of the worst lineups imaginable.
Training is better than ever. There's 500 TV timeouts per game in the playoffs. There is no excuse to not play your best players 40 plus minutes per game.
Always hated this side of him..keep it in' simple..
Unless it is total coaching mismatch (Dwayne Casey types) Pop isn't pulling a fast one against any above average coach nowadays...He was out-coached in the Clippers'15/Mavericks'14 series in two different outcomes.. which is why i don't expect any rabbit out of the hat when he comes up against Kerr..
Something no one ever talks about : game clock operator ing up our last play in game7, i'm sure LOW IQ Clippers wouldn't foresee the Kawhi alley oop.
Thats the problem. We are not talking about basketball common mistakes. We are talking about external interference in that case, and Waiters foul is a freak foul, not a normal baskebtall mistake that may happen.
Sucks that NBA treats the most correct team like that. We make a point of being respectful and not bash referees on interviews, in front of cameras, etc. And they do us like this? Pathetic, shameful.
The clock operator incident wasn't treated as seriously as it should
It will happen again in time, book it. They will issue an apology again as well.
The reason it will keep happening again is because the league has allowed the game do devolve into chaos, to get ratings. They let so much go, on literally every play, that when they do decide to make a call people scream. As they probably should. Every guard carries on every dribble - but once in a while they call it. There's a lane violation on just about every FTA, but once in a while they single out one to call. The wrestling around the basket, the "hard hedges" that bash a PG three steps out of his path, the moving screens that they called and then quit calling. The shooters that lunge into a defender, and get whistles - but every now and then the same thing is called a charge. Nobody knows what the the rules are - or at least not how they are going to be used on any given play. Sometimes it seems like the refs aren't even sure.
In this latest debacle, the league brought in their rules specialist (Javie), and he still got it wrong:
1. Rule 12A II: EXCEPTION (5): In the last two minutes of the fourth period and/or any over-time period, a technical foul will be assessed if the defender crosses or breaks the plane of the boundary line prior to the ball being released on a throw-in.
2. The clarification, from the Rules Case-Book: With :03.5 remaining in the fourth period and Team A leading 110-109, Team B has the ball out-of-bounds. Player A1, who is guarding the thrower-in, jumps up and down attempting to make it difficult for Player B1 to execute the throw-in. In so doing, he breaks the plane of the out-of-bounds line by landing out-of-bounds on several jumps. What is the ruling? A non-unsportsmanlike technical foul shall be called because the game is in the last two minutes of the fourth period. It is recommended that the official administering the throw-in warn Player A1 to keep his hands and feet from breaking the vertical plane of the boundary line, prior to awarding the ball to Player B1.
So if Javie is supposed to be the ultimate expert, why did he say that it's sort of a discretionary thing? Or that you have to cross the plane more than once? The fact is, outside of the last 2 minutes, the ref is STILL supposed to issue a warning, and give the offensive team a new 5 seconds. Then, on the second violation, there should be a technical. That's not what Javie said, nor what happened. But in the last 2 minutes, the technical is supposed to be automatic. The league can't get it's own damn rules right.
Not that it matters, but did anybody else notice something about the clock starting early? In the tiny bit of time it took for a pass to travel 20 feet or so, .6 seconds ran off the clock - barely more than an eye-blink. But Derek Fisher once caught the ball, stepped, put it on the floor, squared up, and launched a 3-pointer... in just 2/3 that amount of time?
The problem isn't in how the refs call things - the real problem is that they don't call them the same, two times in a row. Everybody talks about "letting them play" in the playoffs. But they don't swallow their whistles. They just use them erratically.
Nice research.
The NBA might be one of those things that if you study it in more detail you realize the abundance of flaws and it diminishes your enjoyment. Between rule interpretations and injuries there is a huge random factor in any given game/series/season. Yet, over the big picture these even out. That's why the good organizations keep winning and the bad organizations do not.
Death, taxes, and Spurs fans whining about refs....3 things you can't avoid.
I agree with most of this.
The only games we stole were game 5 of the 2005 Finals and Game 6 of the 2003 WCF, when Kerr brought us back from 12 down in the 4th. But that Mavericks team, with or without Dirk, was terrible defensively, so it wasn't surprising we were able to charge back. And we stole a few against the Suns, but it's the Suns
Meanwhile, we've been on the receiving end of:
2002 Lakers coming back in every 4th quarter (we held a 4th quarter lead in all games, and the series still went only 5 games).
0.4.
The Manu on Dirk foul.
Blew a 20 point 3rd quarter lead in game 1 of the 2008 WCF. Blew an 18 point lead in game 5 of that same series.
Blew an 18 point lead in game 6 of the 2012 WCF. Was also the second time the Spurs have been backdoor swept in the Pop/Duncan era.
6
Game 7 in last season's first round. Spurs had multiple late leads in the 4th and couldn't in' close.
I think the differences here vis a vis a team like the Lakers was that Phil wasn't afraid to play Kobe 48 minutes and Shaq 43-45 minutes. And I think Shaq has a few 48 minute playoff games. Pop is obsessed and/or overly concerned with player stamina or just has a massive ego and wants to prove that one of his "clever" Frankenstein rotations will pay off and make him look like a genius. He killed the 2013 le with that ty rotation to start the 4th. He played Udoka more minutes than Bowen in the '08 WCF. Played Gary Neal way too many in' minutes in the 2012 WCF. Sat Manu in game 1 of the 2011 1st round. And of course, didn't have Kawhi let it all hang out last night (36 minutes WTF?) and killed the momentum we ended the 3rd on by shuffling out one of the worst lineups imaginable.
Training is better than ever. There's 500 TV timeouts per game in the playoffs. There is no excuse to not play your best players 40 plus minutes per game.
I don't agree with the supposed difference between Jackson and Pop, though. If you adjust for the era and his age/mileage, Pop was running Duncan into the ground, in the playoffs, as recently as last season. In his salad days, he'd routinely play 42-46 mpg and I remember a few 48's, too.
Leonard's minutes, last game, is being somewhat overstated. I didn't mind pulling him early. Off shooting games are one thing, but they simply can no longer afford for him to pull a disappearing act against an elite team in the playoffs, particularly at home. Then the final 5+ of the first half, he tried to get him back in with about 3 left, but there was no stoppage until 20 something seconds left. Granted, he should have burned a timeout. Also, lost amid this, was Aldridge playing 43+.
Section IV-Thrower-in
a. A thrower-in shall not (1) carry the ball onto the court; (2) fail to release the ball within 5 seconds; (3) touch it on the court before it has touched another player; (4) leave the designated throw-in spot; (5) throw the ball so that it enters the basket before touching anyone on the court; (6) step over the boundary line while inbounding the ball; (7) cause the ball to go out-of-bounds without being touched inbounds; (8) leave the playing surface to gain an advantage on a throw-in; (9) hand the ball to a player on the court.
EXCEPTION: After a field goal or free throw as a result of a personal foul, the thrower-in may run the end line or pass to a teammate behind the end line.
b. Once an official recognizes the designated player to throw the ball in, there shall be no change of the thrower-in unless the offensive team makes a subs ution, there is a regular or 20-second timeout or a suspension of play.
PENALTY: Loss of ball. The ball is awarded to the opposing team at the original spot of the throw-in.
See! 'Perfectly legal'...........jeez!
Good job man, interesting.
I agree on the part of why it will happen again too, no doubt.
Not to the Warriors. They'll make sure they it doesn't go against them. I've never seen a block call / charge call go to replay only to be reversed, never, until it happened with Steph Curry.
I definitely remember him playing Duncan major minutes. The Spurs just weren't deep in those days at any position. But once Manu and Parker developed and Pop moved into his "deep bench" era, he's kid gloved players a bit too much.
How is Manu only getting 32 minutes in this game:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...605130DAL.html
Well you are right about that, true.
That, plus it was a sign of the times and Duncan seemed indefatigable.
He always did baby Ginobili too much though. He claimed it was because of his reckless, all out nature, but Parker was playing faster and getting to the rim more than probably anyone in the league, yet he played closer to typical star minutes in that era.
ARE YOU KIDDING? Blatant foul!
Probably the biggest negative on Pop. An even bigger with the minutes thing with Leonard is that, he hasnt responded well to getting benched since he became the main guy.
Charoltte-Toronto and a couple of other games this year, Leonard couldnt find a rhytem when Pop took him out and benched him because he thought he wasnt playing well enough.
There's a huge contrast on how Leonard responds to getting benched outside of his regular minutes since he become an allstar level player last year and during his first two years. He used to play really well.
I thought getting benched in the first half ruined his game and if you look closely to the games he was terrible at this year, it was the same story. Gets benched...never finds a rhytem. No confidence. Spurs lose.
It reminds me of how treated Ginobili in his prime years but to a lesser extent.
It doesnt help that Leonard was probably irritated for playing 21 minutes when he was playing out of his mind. Pops got to realize hes human.
Pop plays a lot of mind games so it would not surprise if this has somethibg to do with free agency nedt year
I just tuned into the 4th quarter of the Portland/GSW game. First play, the refs call a lane violation on GS, and JVG goes nuts because "it happens on every single free throw". And, he says, they just call it "selectively". I hate to agree with JVG, but that's exactly what I was saying. You just never know when they'll decide to make a call like that. If you don't compete for the rebounds, you're at a disadvantage. But if you do, and they make a call against you at the worst possible time? It could cost you a playoff series.
I watched for about 5 minutes, and saw at least 5 impossibly-bad calls and no-calls. And it's not like I think they are favoring one team over the other - both teams have a lot to about. I'm really not looking forward to another game in OKC, if the officiating is going to be like this. I think the Spurs are the better team, and I think they're going to win the next one. But it's just not fun to watch.
As I type this, Harrison Barnes got the corner to get to the rim. One of the Portland players (Aminu?) intentionally fouled by grabbing Barnes' off arm. The arm-pull made Barnes take an extra step on the way to the basket. At that point, you either have to call the arm-pull or the travel. Nope. The ref didn't call anything. Barnes got to the rim and scored, and I still expected a late whistle for an and-1. Nope. The refs aren't letting them play... they're letting them play another sport.
And there's the problem. The chaos is there all the time. Calls that can't possibly be missed - calls that get made selectively. So when one of those inexcusable calls happens at a critical time at the end of a game, people naturally think they got screwed.
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