Call Your Ideal Off-Season

[Raven]

I think that's around the max they are able to offer...he'll get more in FA..

who's paying for that tbh

[mo7888]

who's paying for that tbh

Who's paying more than $17M? Quite a few teams will pay 19-22M... probably including us..

[scott]

For where the Spurs are and where some of us want the Spurs to be, I think having a forward at the sixth-man role is a much better fit than having a combo-guard. As I've said before, Keldon is a good fit with Vassell, Sochan and whomever comes in to play SF. He can fit with any two of them. Yes, he has to learn to be a sixth man, and everyone has to figure out how to balance their scoring efforts to be best for the team. That will be true if a guy like PG is brought in or if a guy like Dillingham is drafted (or both, ideally). A sixth man cannot be a passive shooter, because his main role is to be a go-to scorer off the bench. Sure ideally, a guy can be Manu and turn the bench into a supercharged unit. But that's not really the standard a player should be held to, in my opinion.

I'm not against Monk, though I would want them to more directly address the point-guard position if they go that route. But the idea should be to bring him in to compliment the top guys on the team already, not to replace some of them -- ESPECIALLY if he's going to make more money. Like maybe if it's a direct S&T where the Kings or a third team gets Johnson and the Spurs get to keep their MLE, I could see it. Then the MLE immediately has to be used to get a replacement for Keldon. It's also more likely than not in this case that the Spurs would still have that starting SF spot open, so the replacing that would likely come first. It's doable, but it's tight and would involve either a ring-chaser coming over or the Spurs to have developmental luck. On that note, while it's not ridiculous to want to give Branham or Holland the room to grow into the role, it's a questionable strategy unless the Spurs are okay with not winning much again this upcoming season. Sixth men are important, and leaving that spot up to chance is possibly even more worrying than drafting Holland or Williams and hoping that solves the SF question right away.

I definitely agree that Monk should only be a consideration as a high-end 6th man (which maybe it not what we need to focus on right now), not as a potential starter. To me, he'd only be replacing Branham. I also think he could fit just find with Keldon and that Keldon may benefit from some more help on the bench unit and that could alleviate some of the labored, borderline-chucker behavior we see from him at times. In the event Keldon is moved, I still go back to Gordon Hayward as a potential replacement in the SF rotation (in this respect, I haven't moved much from my original ideal offseason scenario). This all assumes Hayward isn't washed. He was putting up numbers to start the season in CHA but hasn't played much since moving to OKC.

Even now knowing our draft position, my ideal draft scenario hasn't changed much (though I'd now prefer a combo of Buzelis and Holland versus what I originally posited with Risacher and Buzelis). But to mix it up, here is a scenario in which we go Dillingham at 4 and Holland at 8 (which I think he ONLY makes it to if we take Dilly at 4. If we take Buzelis at 4, I believe Holland gets taken before he gets to 8. I think we could possibly get Buzelis at 4 and Dilly at 8, but it becomes slightly riskier given Topic's sitation, someone may want to jump up to take a PG ahead of us at 8).

So, draft Dilly at 4, Holland at 8.

Sign Malik Monk.

Resign Mamu and Cedi.

PG: Tre/Dilly/Blake (Dilly eventually taking over the starting role)
SG: Vassell/Monk/Bran
SF: Holland/Johnson/Champ (predicated on the Spurs wanting to keep Keldon in a bench role)
PF: Sochan/Cedi/Mamu
C: Wemby/Collins/Barlow (you know I'm president of the Bassey fan club, but I think those knees have other plans)

No draft capital expended, Johnson and Collins salaries still available to be used as trade ballast. Sidy the biggest casualty here. Second unit defense will be very, very bad.

Edit: I would like this a lot more if it was Buzelis instead of Holland, not only because I have Matas rated higher but because I think it's a better fit here. This SL has shooting problems. Because of that, maybe you move Keldon back into the SL (this is our closing unit last year which was actually very good) and Holland is your backup SF to add a little defense to the equation.

[Chinook]

Who's paying more than $17M? Quite a few teams will pay 19-22M... probably including us..

If the Spurs go the route of paying to get off Graham's guarantee but keeps everyone else, they could bring to bear $22.4 Million in cap space. That gives them a max offer of $96.3M/4. I'm going to assume the Spurs draft Castle and Williams because I don't want to think too hard about a mock draft right now. Then sign Derrick Jones to the room exception

Jones, Castle, Wesley
Vassell, Monk, Branham
Jones, Johnson, Champangie
Sochan, Williams, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey

You're probably forced to just be okay starting Williams and bringing back Osman or Mamu to play the backup four, but this might sort of work out. That's an interesting bench as is, with a lot of size and a couple of good scorers. Maybe if they can convince the right ring-chaser or disillusioned vet to come over, it would be a stronger unit altogether.

[spurraider21]

If the Spurs go the route of paying to get off Graham's guarantee but keeps everyone else, they could bring to bear $22.4 Million in cap space. That gives them a max offer of $96.3M/4. I'm going to assume the Spurs draft Castle and Williams because I don't want to think too hard about a mock draft right now. Then sign Derrick Jones to the room exception

Jones, Castle, Wesley
Vassell, Monk, Branham
Jones, Johnson, Champangie
Sochan, Williams, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey

You're probably forced to just be okay starting Williams and bringing back Osman or Mamu to play the backup four, but this might sort of work out. That's an interesting bench as is, with a lot of size and a couple of good scorers. Maybe if they can convince the right ring-chaser or disillusioned vet to come over, it would be a stronger unit altogether.

also works with the "pOsiTiOnLeSs" stuff too, since neither Castle nor Monk are pure point guards but can do point guard-ish things while having solid (monk) to good (castle) size for the position. wemby's late season passing and hub ability opens up a lot of interesting doors at the PG position (part of why i think Sheppard could get by at PG if he ends up making the team, and a big part of why i've soured on Topic as well)

[mo7888]

If the Spurs go the route of paying to get off Graham's guarantee but keeps everyone else, they could bring to bear $22.4 Million in cap space. That gives them a max offer of $96.3M/4. I'm going to assume the Spurs draft Castle and Williams because I don't want to think too hard about a mock draft right now. Then sign Derrick Jones to the room exception

Jones, Castle, Wesley
Vassell, Monk, Branham
Jones, Johnson, Champangie
Sochan, Williams, Cissoko
Wembanyama, Collins, Bassey

You're probably forced to just be okay starting Williams and bringing back Osman or Mamu to play the backup four, but this might sort of work out. That's an interesting bench as is, with a lot of size and a couple of good scorers. Maybe if they can convince the right ring-chaser or disillusioned vet to come over, it would be a stronger unit altogether.

I think it's a pretty good palate to work from and gives some interesting options for more moves down the road.

[scott]

Re: Monk, Spotrac talks about him extensively in their King's offseason preview today: https://www.spotrac.com/news/_/id/22...l-previews#SAC

Here's the main takeaway:

Of the cap space teams, Monk would be immediately plug-and-play for any of them. Outside of maybe the Utah Jazz, who already have Jordan Clarkson and Collin Sexton playing the role he would play, Monk is a wonderful fit with any team. It’s very easy to envision the Philadelphia 76ers, Orlando Magic, Oklahoma City Thunder, San Antonio Spurs or Detroit Pistons offering Monk a deal that starts north of $20 million and has an AAV up to $25 million per season.

[Chinook]

also works with the "pOsiTiOnLeSs" stuff too, since neither Castle nor Monk are pure point guards but can do point guard-ish things while having solid (monk) to good (castle) size for the position. wemby's late season passing and hub ability opens up a lot of interesting doors at the PG position (part of why i think Sheppard could get by at PG if he ends up making the team, and a big part of why i've soured on Topic as well)

I think it's a pretty good palate to work from and gives some interesting options for more moves down the road.

I'm glad it turned out well. I do just wonder if there's a good room exception candidate to complete that rotation. The full room exception is $25.2M/3. I don't know of a good forward who'd want to take that deal. That Spurs team could be pretty good, but they wouldn't be "ring-chaser" good.

[mo7888]

I'm glad it turned out well. I do just wonder if there's a good room exception candidate to complete that rotation. The full room exception is $25.2M/3. I don't know of a good forward who'd want to take that deal. That Spurs team could be pretty good, but they wouldn't be "ring-chaser" good.

Maybe Oubre, Hauser, Hayward, or O'Neale? They might have better offers, but I'd start there.

I'd be happy with that roster next year. We'd make the playoff and I think compete in the first rd....maybe make the second with a favorable draw... then build on that next summer...

[Chinook]

Maybe Oubre, Hauser, Hayward, or O'Neale? They might have better offers, but I'd start there.

I'd be happy with that roster next year. We'd make the playoff and I think compete in the first rd....maybe make the second with a favorable draw... then build on that next summer...

I'd like a defensive SF, but Oubre could make sense on this roster where Jones isn't much of a scorer.
Hauser seems to be under contract for next season. While that's what it is, it is a reminder that the room exception can be used in trades now.
Hayward seems shaky. I like the idea of the vet leadership, but I'm not sure if he's demonstrating that.
O'Neale has been the guy I've plugged into scenarios. I don't know if he's a great fit next to Sochan, but if we're talking about him coming off the bench, there are other guys who might be able to do that.

If the Spurs draft the right forward, maybe this is mostly moot. Jones, Monk, Vassell, Castle, Holland/Williams, Johnson, Sochan, Wembanyama, and Collins looks like it could be a solid nine-man rotation. That's one of the virtues of keeping Johnson as the swing forward. If the Spurs were the draft the right forward, that 10th spot can be a lot of cheap players like Mamu or KBD or even one of the second-rounders if they impress. , there are forwards playing overseas who might want to come over to the NBA like former NBA player Dzanan Musa.

[mo7888]

I'd like a defensive SF, but Oubre could make sense on this roster where Jones isn't much of a scorer.
Hauser seems to be under contract for next season. While that's what it is, it is a reminder that the room exception can be used in trades now.
Hayward seems shaky. I like the idea of the vet leadership, but I'm not sure if he's demonstrating that.
O'Neale has been the guy I've plugged into scenarios. I don't know if he's a great fit next to Sochan, but if we're talking about him coming off the bench, there are other guys who might be able to do that.

If the Spurs draft the right forward, maybe this is mostly moot. Jones, Monk, Vassell, Castle, Holland/Williams, Johnson, Sochan, Wembanyama, and Collins looks like it could be a solid nine-man rotation. That's one of the virtues of keeping Johnson as the swing forward. If the Spurs were the draft the right forward, that 10th spot can be a lot of cheap players like Mamu or KBD or even one of the second-rounders if they impress. , there are forwards playing overseas who might want to come over to the NBA like former NBA player Dzanan Musa.

On Hauser I just looked at the hoopshype fa list for this summer. I guess he could be restricted or they just have him listed wrong. I kind of pulled guys of different strengths because who knows who we draft. It could be Matas and Sheppard and that would shift the mix a bit, but the fundamental idea here is solid and can be adjusted as needed.

As for Keldon, I'd trade him if I thought the deal was right, but most of the trade ideas don't really make sense. It's almost like giving him away for cap space and a roster spot. He's fine where he is and his value isn't going down next year, so play it out and use him when we get to the point of making win-now moves geared toward championship intentions. We've got time there...

[DPG21920]

I'd like a defensive SF, but Oubre could make sense on this roster where Jones isn't much of a scorer.
Hauser seems to be under contract for next season. While that's what it is, it is a reminder that the room exception can be used in trades now.
Hayward seems shaky. I like the idea of the vet leadership, but I'm not sure if he's demonstrating that.
O'Neale has been the guy I've plugged into scenarios. I don't know if he's a great fit next to Sochan, but if we're talking about him coming off the bench, there are other guys who might be able to do that.

If the Spurs draft the right forward, maybe this is mostly moot. Jones, Monk, Vassell, Castle, Holland/Williams, Johnson, Sochan, Wembanyama, and Collins looks like it could be a solid nine-man rotation. That's one of the virtues of keeping Johnson as the swing forward. If the Spurs were the draft the right forward, that 10th spot can be a lot of cheap players like Mamu or KBD or even one of the second-rounders if they impress. , there are forwards playing overseas who might want to come over to the NBA like former NBA player Dzanan Musa.

Patrick Williams?

[DPG21920]

Off season:

Trade Keldon for Ivey

Sign and Trade for Patrick Williams or sign in FA if Bulls let him go.

Draft Holland + Dillingham or Holland + Castle

Start: Ivey + Vassell + Patrick Williams + Sochan + Wemby

Bench of: Tre + Castle/Dillingham + Holland + Champagnie + Collins

Good mix of youth, size and while shooting is an issue some, defense should be MUCH improved alongside versatile lineups

[Pauleta14]

So who would folks replace Keldon with as the team's sixth man? I have seen multiple trade ideas where the Spurs basically get rid of Johnson almost as a way to add value to SA's ledger. I've said it before, but I don't think there's an upgrade to his role in the draft or free agency. On a declining contract Johnson is basically getting 133 percent of the MLE over the rest of his deal. I don't think trading him away should be an option the Spurs explore much at all this year, but even in the few cases where it makes sense, the Spurs should legitimately have a plan on how to replace him. Despite the talk of how replaceable Keldon is, he's a top-10 Spur in the post-Kawhi era. I know that seems like a low bar, but we're still talking about six years and dozens of players passing through.

I don't think KJ likes coming off the bench and he lacks playmaking abilities (or willigness) for the role. I'd be better for him to be traded imo

We can find better and Monk is a great example if he's interested by the role (not a given)

[Pauleta14]

Off season:

Trade Keldon for Ivey

Sign and Trade for Patrick Williams or sign in FA if Bulls let him go.

Draft Holland + Dillingham or Holland + Castle

Start: Ivey + Vassell + Patrick Williams + Sochan + Wemby

Bench of: Tre + Castle/Dillingham + Holland + Champagnie + Collins

Good mix of youth, size and while shooting is an issue some, defense should be MUCH improved alongside versatile lineups

PATFO has to bring some veterans experience + we can't do another season with only Collins as backup big

[Chinook]

Patrick Williams?

For the room exception?

[Chinook]

I like Ivey, but I wouldn't trade for him as anything other than a flier. I wouldn't trade my sixth man for a flier, nor would a flier be all that interesting if I drafted a PG.

Keldon for Ivey only makes sense in niche cir stances. Where the Spurs have a max player waiting to sign, spent their picks on wings and have a sixth man waiting to sign the room exception. It doesn't seem to make sense to do so on order to drop a bag on Patrick Williams.

[DPG21920]

For the room exception?

Haha - no. To replace Keldon money if we can swing a deal that helps the team there (I agree, Im not trying to trade Keldon for sake of it but I do think hes the one that can get us value where needed)

[DPG21920]

I like Ivey, but I wouldn't trade for him as anything other than a flier. I wouldn't trade my sixth man for a flier, nor would a flier be all that interesting if I drafted a PG.

Keldon for Ivey only makes sense in niche cir stances. Where the Spurs have a max player waiting to sign, spent their picks on wings and have a sixth man waiting to sign the room exception. It doesn't seem to make sense to do so on order to drop a bag on Patrick Williams.

Fair enough - I think Pat Will gives you as a starter what Keldon could not; better 3PT shooting alongside defensive upside. Ivey gives you a shot at a rookie scale upside guard that has a many flaws as any guard in this draft IMO and now you can draft wings

And in my scenario, Holland is the Keldon replacement for now. Except he has defensive chops but still ability to be a 20PPG scorer (not now, but over time and hes very young).

[LeBowen]

Regardless of the names, there are glaring issues that need to be dealth with, in order of priority:
1. Backup rim protector, Collins has to go, not even up for discussion.
2. A starting point guard. Or point forward, which doesn't look likely.
3. Point of attack defender.
4. At least two more 3-D perimeter players.

Obviously one player can fill multiple needs.

I see the rotation as two primary ballhandlers, two bigs and the rest is perimeter players in various roles.

point guard/Tre
Wemby/backup rim protector

And then 5 or 6 perimeter players.
Devin is a guaranteed starter, Jeremy will be one of those players, everything else is up in the air.
Champagnie and Branham probably stay in the rotation, meaning that we need 2 more perimeter players.
A rookie and Keldon if he doesn't get traded.

[Bellboy]

Buzelis, Edey, sign Tre Jones brother

[scott]

Regardless of the names, there are glaring issues that need to be dealth with, in order of priority:
1. Backup rim protector, Collins has to go, not even up for discussion.
2. A starting point guard. Or point forward, which doesn't look likely.
3. Point of attack defender.
4. At least two more 3-D perimeter players.

Obviously one player can fill multiple needs.

I see the rotation as two primary ballhandlers, two bigs and the rest is perimeter players in various roles.

point guard/Tre
Wemby/backup rim protector

And then 5 or 6 perimeter players.
Devin is a guaranteed starter, Jeremy will be one of those players, everything else is up in the air.
Champagnie and Branham probably stay in the rotation, meaning that we need 2 more perimeter players.
A rookie and Keldon if he doesn't get traded.

I do not disagree with the assessment of Collins, but I do think we should all come to grips with the fact that he'll be here unless going out as ballast in a trade for another big name. I can't see a scenario where the Spurs pay someone else to eat his deal.

[JH22]

What about signing Immanuel Quickley to a max deal offer sheet? I doubt Toronto can match.

Then flip Keldon Johnson and maybe Branham to Boston for Derrick White.

Then draft two wings in Ron Holland at 4OA and Dalton Knecht 8OA

C- Victor Wembanyama / Zach Collins
PF- Jeremy Sochan
SF- Ron Holland / Dalton Knecht / Julian Champagne
SG- Devin Vassell / Derrick White
PG- Immanuel Quickley / Tre Jones

[scott]

What about signing Immanuel Quickley to a max deal offer sheet? I doubt Toronto can match.

Then flip Keldon Johnson and maybe Branham to Boston for Derrick White.

Then draft two wings in Ron Holland at 4OA and Dalton Knecht 8OA

C- Victor Wembanyama / Zach Collins
PF- Jeremy Sochan
SF- Ron Holland / Dalton Knecht / Julian Champagne
SG- Devin Vassell / Derrick White
PG- Immanuel Quickley / Tre Jones

Ignoring whether or not Quickly is worth the max (imo, he isn't anywhere close), we don't have the cap space to offer anyone the max. Something around 4/70 seems about right for Quickly, imho.

I also think Boston laughs at you and hangs up the phone with that offer.

[pad300]

All right, I'm not sure this is ideal, but call this looking at weirder possibilities:

The PATFO decides now is the time ...

Pre-draft: Trade for Markkanen from Utah... (with a verbal deal on an extension). Markkanen for 2025 SAS 1st (Top 3 protected), 2025 Chi 1st (assorted protections), 2025 CHA 1st (assorted protections), 2027 ATL 1st (unprotected), Graham, Branham

SAS trades #4 to Portland for 7&14

Drafts Topic (falls to #7 because of injuries, picked because he might just be the best player in the whole draft), Devin Carter (#8, he might be Derrick White 2.0), and Edy (#14, a gamble on him being workable.)

Players: Carter, Jones, Wesley, Topic, Vassel, Sochan, Markkannen, Wemby, Edey, Keldon, Champagnie, Barlow, Cissoko, Zach Collins
Things left undefined: 2 second round picks, 1 empty roster spots, 3 two-way spots, and I think we would have the full MLE and the room exception to spend... Also we have bird rights to Mamu and Cedi.


Starting Lineup
PG - Devin Carter
SG - Vassel
SF- Sochan
PF - Markkannen
C- Wemby
The big question with this lineup is can Carter provide enough creation at PG.

Backups
PG - Jones/Topic/Wesley
SG - Topic/Champagnie /Cissoko
SF- Keldon/Champagnie /Cissoko
PF - Barlow/Keldon
C - Edey/Collins