Floyd Mayweather Jr vs UFC??

[cornbread]

Your arrogant bull has been MIA since the Mavs got embarrased so now you bring it to the mma threads. I see how it is.

You need to do a little research before you sound off. There is a history behind mma that you obviously know nothing about. There are olympic atheletes who compete in mma who you nothing about. Top mma guys get paid more than 10's of thousands but you didn't know that.

My question is this. The economic opportunity is greater in boxing so why are there no olympic wrestlers or judokas in that sport? These are both world class atheletes btw.

[LEONARD]

...really funny quote by mayweather about getting facial tatoos and starting street fights. usually, hes not that funny but that is hilarious.

i can't believe no one is has said this yet, but his point is well taken in that boxing features world-class athletes (olympians like de la hoya/jones jr. etc) while UFC is something else, has no tradition, and very well could see its popularity wain soon ala poker, pogs, and pro wrestling.

For the love of god, guys that are in UFC wouldn't be in UFC if they were the type of elite athlete that could make it in boxing.

This is proven overwhelmingly by economics. If any of these UFC guys had been talented enough to make it in boxing at a high level (like a mayweather), of course they would be boxing.

the economics of boxing provide huge/overwhelming incentive that make it the "major leagues" of guys who are truly talented pugilists. Top boxers can make 10's of millions, top MMA get 10's of thousands.

A UFC meathead wouldn't be in MMA if they had the sort of talent a top boxer has.

Wow...where to start.

1. MOST guys in the UFC were NEVER in boxing to begin with. Most have BJJ, wrestling, or other martial arts backgrounds. Very few started as boxers, so it's kinda off to say they couldn't make it in boxing. Mayweather's shot at the UFC makes no sense...

2. No Olympian caliber athletes? You mean like...Matt Lindland? Mark Coleman? Kevin Jackson? Among others worldwide. How about all the NCAA champion wrestlers that are in the UFC and other org's? There are PLENTY of top flight athletes in MMA...even if they weren't olympic boxers. Try not to be TOO shocked if MMA if an olympic sport someday...

3. o and Chuck each got about $3M after PPV share for their fight on Dec 30th. "10's of thousands" for the top guys is a bit extreme...

4. You clearly know jack $hit about MMA. And after what you've said here, you can't argue that you do. I'm sure it sucks to watch your sport flame out. What's the next big fight after this weekend?? When was the last big fight? The finale on The Contender?

[pussyface]

i see that I was wrong on the olympic caliber athlete bit, thanks for clearing me up on that fellas.

here's what I will say and what still holds true.

The greatest and MOST TALENTED athletes in America don't go into MMA. They go into football, or basketball, or boxing for instance. This may not be true 100% but it is certainly the general rule.

Just like people say (correctly) that USA soccer suffers because the great athletes in America don't become soccer players because they can make 10's of millions domestically in other sports like basketball and football, the blue chip athletes of today sure as are not getting into this UFC act.

The most talented will gravitate to a mainstream sport that isn't a subculture put on an outsider cable tv station like eTV with a niche audience. They'll chose the sport where they can earn tons more, get tons more media attention, and have the chance to be on the cover of sports illustrated and be compared to michael jordan and tiger woods and .

Do you disagree with this analysis?

[pussyface]

im not an MMA hater, by the way.
i think there is something to it.

i just think boxing is way, way cooler.

[pussyface]

You need to do a little research before you sound off. There is a history behind mma that you obviously know nothing about.

You have got to be kidding me.

In the realm of americana and being a relevent part of history/culture boxing is the coolest ing thing ever in the USA just behind baseball for god's sake.

the reason why everyone agrees boxing is not doing it right right now is because its past is so glorious its ridiculous. ask your grandpa about joe louis and max schmelling and these guys and look at muhammed ali, one of the great figures of the 20th century period.

these guys are ing alltime american icons, right up there with Frank Sinatra and Elvis Pressley for crying out loud.

the great american authors (hemmingway, kerouc, miller, etc.) wrote extensively about attending boxing matches and the poetic but ballstothewall nature of the sport.

...all of this makes MMA look irrelevent and feel like nascar by comparison if you ask me. I know as much about hoyce gracie or whoever as the next person, but it ain't on the same level for me.

[LEONARD]

i see that I was wrong on the olympic caliber athlete bit, thanks for clearing me up on that fellas.

here's what I will say and what still holds true.

The greatest athletes in America don't go into MMA. They go into football, or basketball, or boxing for instance. This may not be true 100% but it is certainly the general rule.

Just like people say USA soccer suffers because the great athletes in America don't become soccer players because they can make 10's of millions domestically in other sports like basketball and football, the blue chip athletes of today sure as are not getting into this UFC act.

The most talented will gravitate to a mainstream sport that isn't a subculture put on an outsider cable tv station like eTV with a niche audience. They'll chose the sport where they can earn tons more, get tons more media attention, and have the chance to be on the cover of sports illustrated and be compared to michael jordan and tiger woods and .

Do you disagree with this analysis?

The greatest athletes don't go into boxing either...if they do, where are they?? Why has boxing been in the ter for years if there are so many stud athletes choosing boxing as their #1 sport??

More and more guys will be choosing MMA as their sport in the future IMO.

Niche audience? Since when is males 18-34 "niche"? I think that's called a big target for most networks. It's probably safe to assume that you don't much about the ratings that the UFC draws in that demographic...right?

MMA can currently be seen on:

e TV (UFC)
FSN (Pride and IFL)
ION (Bodogfight)
Vs (WEC)
MyNetworkTV (IFL)
Showtime (Elite XC, K-1)
HBO (UFC) - starting this summer

other deals are in the works, including major network TV and ESPN. It's not just e TV as you said...

And top fighters are everywhere these days. The front page of SI isn't too far off IMO...

Couture will appear on "The Unit" on CBS on May 8th...
http://www.nbcsports.com/ufc/1448151/detail.html

o will be on "Mad TV" on tonight...
http://www.nbcsports.com/ufc/1440624/detail.html

Chuck on "Entourage"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-CtW8roW_f8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jv5wx3bSav4

Chuck in Sport Illustrated
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ref=nbc_sports

Couture appeared on ESPN News
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cCky20dpm8w

and was also on 2 episodes of Pro's vs Joe's last season.

o on NUMB3RS...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aCuWtFg7H5k

Chuck interview with Dan Patrick in ESPN the Magazine
http://evilmaster-mma.blogspot.com/2...up-to-mma.html

Dana White on ESPN News "Hot List" on 4/4/07
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1m...awhite1hotlist

ESPN coverage of UFC 69 on SportsCenter on 4/8/07
http://sports.espn.go.com/keyword/se...m_fp&rT=sports

Crocop article on MSNBC - 4/19/07
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18197148/

Rich Franklin and Dana White on O'Reilly
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-uKxxRsfpQs

Couture on The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1n...onrandycouture

Chuck on Conan O'Brien
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyo...ddell-on-conan

and on and on...

What else ya go?

[LEONARD]

In the realm of americana and being a relevent part of history/culture boxing is the coolest ing thing ever in the USA just behind baseball for god's sake.

the reason why everyone agrees boxing is not doing it right right now is because its past is so glorious its ridiculous.

LOL...so that's why?? They just set the bar too high, huh?

I thought it had something to do with lack of talented marketable fighters, corruption, poorly run org's, etc etc.

and the history behind MMA that was being referred to is probably Pankration...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pankration

"Pankration, as practiced in the ancient world, combined elements of both boxing (pygme/pygmachia) and wrestling (pale) to create a broad fighting sport similar to today's mixed martial arts."

and not Royce Gracie...

[pussyface]

The greatest athletes don't go into boxing either...if they do, where are they?? Why has boxing been in the ter for years if there are so many stud athletes choosing boxing as their #1 sport??

More and more guys will be choosing MMA as their sport in the future IMO.

Niche audience? Since when is males 18-34 "niche"? I think that's called a big target for most networks. It's probably safe to assume that you don't much about the ratings that the UFC draws in that demographic...right?

MMA can currently be seen on:

e TV (UFC)
FSN (Pride and IFL)
ION (Bodogfight)
Vs (WEC)
MyNetworkTV (IFL)
Showtime (Elite XC, K-1)
HBO (UFC) - starting this summer

other deals are in the works, including major network TV and ESPN. It's not just e TV as you said...

And top fighters are everywhere these days. The front page of SI isn't too far off IMO...

Couture will appear on "The Unit" on CBS on May 8th...
http://www.nbcsports.com/ufc/1448151/detail.html

o will be on "Mad TV" on tonight...
http://www.nbcsports.com/ufc/1440624/detail.html

Chuck on "Entourage"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-CtW8roW_f8
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jv5wx3bSav4

Chuck in Sport Illustrated
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ref=nbc_sports

Couture appeared on ESPN News
http://youtube.com/watch?v=cCky20dpm8w

and was also on 2 episodes of Pro's vs Joe's last season.

o on NUMB3RS...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=aCuWtFg7H5k

Chuck interview with Dan Patrick in ESPN the Magazine
http://evilmaster-mma.blogspot.com/2...up-to-mma.html

Dana White on ESPN News "Hot List" on 4/4/07
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1m...awhite1hotlist

ESPN coverage of UFC 69 on SportsCenter on 4/8/07
http://sports.espn.go.com/keyword/se...m_fp&rT=sports

Crocop article on MSNBC - 4/19/07
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18197148/

Rich Franklin and Dana White on O'Reilly
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-uKxxRsfpQs

Couture on The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1n...onrandycouture

Chuck on Conan O'Brien
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyo...ddell-on-conan

and on and on...

What else ya go?

nothing, man. i pretty much made my case in the part where i said "do you disagree with this?"

once you did, it pretty much became a matter where I can't convince you, and you can't canvince me that you aren't in UFC fanboy denial of economic and social realities that are in play at present.










....MadTV appearances not withstanding.

[LEONARD]

nothing, man. i pretty much made my case in the part where i said "do you disagree with this?"

once you did, it pretty much became a matter where I can't convince you, and you can't canvince me that you aren't in UFC fanboy denial of economic and social realities that are in play at present.

MadTV appearances not withstanding.

Um, ok...

[pussyface]

haha I am just realizing that the examples you have provided are laughable and unflattering to UFC.

Guest star on ty CBS drama no one watches?..... very WWF
MadTV appearance? ....need i say more? not exactly a-list territory.
An article on one MMA-er in SI? ...i could produce literally dozens of SI boxing COVER STORIES from its rich history as an American ins ution

1 ESPNnews appearance? ...laughable that you think this makes them big time. girls high school basketball players make 1 espnnews appearance too.

etc. etc. etc.

none of those appearances are any more a-list than what someone in the wwf could get, ya know?

[pussyface]

...everyone knows MMA and UFC have lots of momentum right now in pop culture. Im certainly not denying that.

what we don't know is whether it will continue to grow or peter out. Months ago, i could have shown you the same links for the same type of stuff while the poker phase was going on. (poker players on late night shows, doing guest spots, interviewed on espn ect.....think about it, UFC Partisan Man.)

...of course, like poker, some people will always be interested in MMA. that ain't going anywhere in that sense. ....doesn't mean its popularity won't wain ala poker etc.



MMA just doesn't have the kind of foothold in the culture that boxing has.
ANY logical person (non-UFC partisan fanboy) would acknowledge that, it isn't really even a slight to MMA.

[pussyface]

when was the last time a film about fighting in a steel cage got major consideration for academy awards (rocky, cinderella man, million dollar baby, against the ropes, etc.)?

my point, i guess, is just that boxing is so much more firmly entrenched in the American cultural landscape that it is not even fair to compare the two.

the result of this, obviously, is that more of the most talented athletes are going to gravitate towards the more established and profitable sport. i dont know how anyone can dispute this.

[LEONARD]

haha I am just realizing that the examples you have provided are laughable and unflattering to UFC.

Guest star on ty CBS drama no one watches?..... very WWF
MadTV appearance? ....need i say more? not exactly a-list territory.
An article on one MMA-er in SI? ...i could produce literally dozens of SI boxing COVER STORIES from its rich history as an American ins ution

1 ESPNnews appearance? ...laughable that you think this makes them big time. girls high school basketball players make 1 espnnews appearance too.

etc. etc. etc.

none of those appearances are any more a-list than what someone in the wwf could get, ya know?

I must've missed where I said that MMA has a greater history than boxing?? Of course it has a rich history...it USED to be a great sport. But it's HISTORY now...

I mentioned Pankration because that's probably what cornbread was referring to when he said that MMA does have a history that you don't know anything about...

The reason for posting those things is because they are a start, and an indication to the leaps in popularity of MMA.

Please don't mention "WWF" because it's garbage and not even a sport...

Bottom line: You're spouting off about MMA and you know NOTHING about it based on what you've said here. Boxing has been in decline for years and MMA is the fastest growing sport in the US right now. It's got the boxing people scared, otherwise they wouldn't even give it a second thought...

[LEONARD]

when was the last time a film about fighting in a steel cage got major consideration for academy awards (rocky, cinderella man, million dollar baby, against the ropes, etc.)?

my point, i guess, is just that boxing is so much more firmly entrenched in the American cultural landscape that it is not even fair to compare the two.

the result of this, obviously, is that more of the most talented athletes are going to gravitate towards the more established and profitable sport. i dont know how anyone can dispute this.

Continue grasping to history and see where the 2 sports are at in 5 yrs...

Where are these great up and coming fighters?

How old are you? Just curious.

[LEONARD]

Months ago, i could have shown you the same links for the same type of stuff while the poker phase was going on. (poker players on late night shows, doing guest spots, interviewed on espn ect.....think about it, UFC Partisan Man.)

...of course, like poker, some people will always be interested in MMA. that ain't going anywhere in that sense. ....doesn't mean its popularity won't wain ala poker etc.

Poker? I thought this was the "other sports" forum???

[cornbread]

You have got to be kidding me.

In the realm of americana and being a relevent part of history/culture boxing is the coolest ing thing ever in the USA just behind baseball for god's sake.

the reason why everyone agrees boxing is not doing it right right now is because its past is so glorious its ridiculous. ask your grandpa about joe louis and max schmelling and these guys and look at muhammed ali, one of the great figures of the 20th century period.

these guys are ing alltime american icons, right up there with Frank Sinatra and Elvis Pressley for crying out loud.

the great american authors (hemmingway, kerouc, miller, etc.) wrote extensively about attending boxing matches and the poetic but ballstothewall nature of the sport.

...all of this makes MMA look irrelevent and feel like nascar by comparison if you ask me. I know as much about hoyce gracie or whoever as the next person, but it ain't on the same level for me.

There's more to history than what your grandfather told you or what has happened in America in the 20th century. The history of mma is not really related to Americana. That's why I wasn't kidding when I said you should do some research. I know from your previous posts that you're an educated guy. So your takes on mma lead me to believe that you haven't been exposed to much information about mma. I'm not talking about UFC marketing hype or Mayweather quotes, but real history. It's a fascinating story that can't really be covered in one post.

I love boxing and always have. I've read biographies on Ali, watched countless boxing matches, "When we were Kings" is one of my favorite films, I will be watching tonight and will watch countless fights to come. I've had those conversations with my elders about the golden years of boxing. Boxing's place in history and American culture is something I'm familiar with and appreciate.

There are a lot of scrubs right now showing up to be "Ultimate Fighters" right now and that does suck. A lot these guys do give it the "bar room brawl" feel. The top level guys are the ones that the sport should be judged by, not the scrubs. Nobody judges boxing by its scrubs in these comparisons.

[IX_Equilibrium]

when was the last time a film about fighting in a steel cage got major consideration for academy awards (rocky, cinderella man, million dollar baby, against the ropes, etc.)?

Goddamn dude, you make a weak ing argument. I as well as other MMA fans don't really give a about how or where MMA will fit into Hollywood.

[IX_Equilibrium]

Bottom line: You're spouting off about MMA and you know NOTHING about it based on what you've said here. Boxing has been in decline for years and MMA is the fastest growing sport in the US right now. It's got the boxing people scared, otherwise they wouldn't even give it a second thought...

Exactly. I knew this guy didn't know what the he was talking about when he started saying UFC had no Olympic level athletes.

To add to that bottom line, boxers know that they would get their asses beat if they would try to compete at the MMA level, which is another apspect that makes them feel threatened. I would love to see any boxer to step into the octagon and prove otherwise, but of course it probably won't happen.

[desflood]

Taken from UFCjunkie.com:

…Sean Sherk, the UFC’s lightweight champion, will be ringside to watch Mayweather try to lift the super welterweight boxing le from De La Hoya.

Mayweather has recently made a number of critical comments about the UFC and MMA. UFC president Dana White, who along with owner Lorenzo Fer ta will also be ringside, has agreed to make it worthwhile for Mayweather to prove his point if he gets past De La Hoya.

White has been irritated by Mayweather’s putdowns of MMA and has decided to challenge Mayweather to back his words.

“If Floyd is serious and he seriously wants to do this and he’s not shooting his mouth off, I’ll make him an offer that is definitely worth his while,” White said. “I don’t think he’d last three minutes with Sherk. He’d be beaten in three minutes, and pretty likely in under a minute, and it would probably be by stoppage or tap-out.”

Fer ta, who was once a member of the Nevada Athletic Commission, said, “Floyd knows he’d get his ass kicked.”


How many boxers have enough guts to show up at a UFC event and sit ringside?

[pussyface]

boxers know that they would get their asses beat if they would try to compete at the MMA level, which is another apspect that makes them feel threatened. I would love to see any boxer to step into the octagon and prove otherwise, but of course it probably won't happen.

it is arguable that boxers would get beat up in the UFC realm (maybe they would, maybe not, maybe some would win etc).

it is not even up for debate that UFCers would get humiliated and outclassed in the boxing realm, right?

[pussyface]

floyd mayweather jr vs. some mid-level UFC guy in octagon fight, i'll take floyd.

He would instantly be the greatest striker in UFC history the second he stepped in the ring for the first time (although obviously he would have huge weaknesses in other areas)

chuck liddell against a mid-level boxing prospect in a boxing match? im taking the unknown guy pretty easily, no?

also, does anyone dispute that mayweather would be the greatest/most talented striker in UFC history?

[LEONARD]

it is arguable that boxers would get beat up in the UFC realm (maybe they would, maybe not, maybe some would win etc).

it is undeniable that UFCers would get humiliated in the boxing realm.

All things equal (general skill level, weight class, etc):

Boxers would get owned in an MMA match.

MMA fighters would get owned in a boxing match.

This shouldn't even be a discussion, but Mayweather says otherwise. He would NEVER accept the challenge that the UFC has offered. Even if they offer him $15M...

[LEONARD]

floyd mayweather jr vs. some mid-level UFC guy in octagon fight, i'll take floyd.

He would instantly be the greatest striker in UFC history the second he stepped in the ring for the first time (although obviously he would have huge weaknesses in other areas)

chuck liddell against a mid-level boxing prospect in a boxing match? im taking the unknown guy pretty easily, no?

also, does anyone dispute that mayweather would be the greatest/most talented striker in UFC history?

A mid-level UFC LW would tap or GnP Mayweather...sorry dude...

Yes, he would be the greatest striker...but he'd probably set the record for quickest submission in UFC history too...

[pussyface]

A mid-level UFC LW would tap or GnP Mayweather...sorry dude...

maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't.

i think his chances of pulling out a win would be significantly better than liddel's vs. a boxer (which would be roughly 0%)

mayweather could learn a competent guard/defense jones and have at the very least a nice outside chance to knock a player out. his opponent would have to respect him...he'd be "dangerous," if nothing else.

obviously, liddel would look outclassed and a fish out of water.

[LEONARD]

to knock a player out.

yEa boyeeeeeeeeee