Fischer: Spurs Repeatedly Mentioned By NBA Figures As Potential Home For Young

[JeffDuncan]

About the LEBRON stuff, from their website:

~~~~~
“ Which players have the best LEBRON seasons in your database?
…
For D-LEBRON, Dwight Howard (twice), Rudy Gobert (3 times), Andrew Bogut (twice), Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kevin Garnett, and Larry Sanders lead the pack.”
~~~~~

Those are centers.

Who is really worried about Trae Young’s ability as a shot blocker?

[objective]

Here's the text version.

...
Second, catch-alls estimate credit for defensive performance

Based on a box score component and an adjusted plus-minus component. Our defensive box score stats are pretty limited so it’s mostly working off of Stocks and defensive rebounds. Obviously things he isn’t compiling a lot of regardless. So when he’s on the floor, they’re going to

Draw the conclusion, that is the weakest Link based on these box score numbers. Then when it sees how poor the Hawks defense is when he is on the floor because of his lower box score component. It is going to hold him most responsible for their underperformance. Whether that’s

Fair schematically is up for some debate. However, were he part of a better defense (and I just wanna point out again did the hawks defense is terrible whether he plays or not) his catchalls would look a lot better because the on-court baseline for the adjusted plus minus stuff

Would be better. And example would be Dame, who unless he has reinvented himself as a defensive player this year at 33 or whatever, suddenly grades out as a significantly better defender, by joining a cohesive infrastructure in Milwaukee.

Finally, I’m not sure that catch-alls still have him basically dead last anyway. He’s at like the 40th percentile in EPM

In sum, Trae Young is not a good defensive player, and the he’s actually good now stuff is probably overblown. On the other hand the biggest difference between Dame’s defensive all-in-ones and Trae’s is the gap between Giannis and Saddiq Bey, not Trae and Dame

Now that is a very interesting point about Lillard vs Young stats

[FuzzyLumpkins]

About the LEBRON stuff, from their website:

~~~~~
“ Which players have the best LEBRON seasons in your database?
…
For D-LEBRON, Dwight Howard (twice), Rudy Gobert (3 times), Andrew Bogut (twice), Giannis Antetokounmpo, Kevin Garnett, and Larry Sanders lead the pack.”
~~~~~

Those are centers.

Who is really worried about Trae Young’s ability as a shot blocker?

Defensive metric in baseball are but they are still better than basketball. There is just too many unmeasurable techniques and mechanics and it is too hard to isolate individual performance. At least in baseball each catch and throw is in a vacuum.

[TD 21]

And if Duncan never had plantar fasciitis or nagging knee issues, he might've won 7 rings instead of 5... The fact still remains that Stockton, Nash, Iverson, and CP3 were each considered premier players of their eras and between them produced zero rings in over 60 combined attempts.

Curry's a different animal because he's the greatest shooter in NBA history. It's crazy that you're trying to argue he's somehow overrated, considering he led a team in a three year charge of 67, 73, and 67 wins, and has 4 rings. Do you honestly think CP3's "almost won a le once or twice" is a better resume than Steph's?

Results without context are diminished. Stockton, Nash and Iverson weren't good enough to be the best player on a championship team.

Golden boy is protected and mythologized because he's an easy sell to the (white America) masses due to his baby face, light skin and style of play. They fell ass backwards into beating the league into a style of play that the league (rule wise) was complicit with and strove for regular season wins in a way most elites never do.

His rings are mostly a product of, again, a combination of unprecedented opponent injury luck and begging Durant (who received all the blame for their gutless partnership) to join him because he wasn't interested in earning his hardware.

He's better than Paul, but the gap isn't nearly as wide as you're making it out to be.

[R. DeMurre]

Results without context are diminished. Stockton, Nash and Iverson weren't good enough to be the best player on a championship team.

Golden boy is protected and mythologized because he's an easy sell to the (white America) masses due to his baby face, light skin and style of play. They fell ass backwards into beating the league into a style of play that the league (rule wise) was complicit with and strove for regular season wins in a way most elites never do.

His rings are mostly a product of, again, a combination of unprecedented opponent injury luck and begging Durant (who received all the blame for their gutless partnership) to join him because he wasn't interested in earning his hardware.

He's better than Paul, but the gap isn't nearly as wide as you're making it out to be.

I never stated how wide the gap was, so that's a figment of your imagination, and quite frankly it sounds like you've got major issues with Curry's looks, being lightskinned/baby faced etc... I don't care about that one bit. I'm looking at his 13 seasons shooting over 40% from three and his career 3pt% of 42.6%, compared to CP3's career 36.9%.

[DAF86]

Results without context are diminished. Stockton, Nash and Iverson weren't good enough to be the best player on a championship team.

Golden boy is protected and mythologized because he's an easy sell to the (white America) masses due to his baby face, light skin and style of play. They fell ass backwards into beating the league into a style of play that the league (rule wise) was complicit with and strove for regular season wins in a way most elites never do.

His rings are mostly a product of, again, a combination of unprecedented opponent injury luck and begging Durant (who received all the blame for their gutless partnership) to join him because he wasn't interested in earning his hardware.

He's better than Paul, but the gap isn't nearly as wide as you're making it out to be.

Dude, I respect you and think of you as very knowledgeable poster but your irrational hatred of the Raptors' GM and Steph Curry, I will never understand, tbh.

First of all, Curry's lightskin complexion and baby face has nothing to do with his popularity. It has all to do with his style of play. When he started making all those mind numbing threes it was something we have never seen before. People were in awe of that and loved every minute of it. He could have looked like Popeye Jones and people would still have loved it. Now we have become numb to that style (thanks in part to Curry), but at the time, it was special.

I don't know how old you are but if you remember the Allen Iverson days, he was the same. He was an NBA phenomenon. People (specially kids) loved his unique style of play. The problem with him is that it was short lived because, unlike Steph's, it wasn't conductive to winning. Now, AI was as hood as it got, did that sell to white people too?

Second, Curry is without question a top 10 player of all-time and one of the most dominant players ever. He was Shaq-like but with a complete opposite style of play. He was the driving force in one of the most dominant dynasties of all-time. All this talk about injuries and a guy that never won it without him being more important is utter and complete bull , tbh.

[Frenchfred]

I think that most people would be okay with Trae coming here, it all depends how much it’s going to cost the Spurs. For me, it is Spurs FRP25, Atlanta swap26, Atlanta 27 and potentially the Chicago one. He also renounces the trade kicker.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I think that most people would be okay with Trae coming here, it all depends how much it’s going to cost the Spurs. For me, it is Spurs FRP25, Atlanta swap26, Atlanta 27 and potentially the Chicago one. He also renounces the trade kicker.

Their 3 FRP would be more than fair. That is 3 high lottery picks for them and if they improve because they hit early so they are no longer lottery picks then so much the better for them.

I think that they are their picks and allow them to control their franchise destiny is an overlooked quality in those picks.

[Chinook]

Dude, I respect you and think of you as very knowledgeable poster but your irrational hatred of the Raptors' GM and Steph Curry, I will never understand, tbh.

First of all, Curry's lightskin complexion and baby face has nothing to do with his popularity. It has all to do with his style of play. When he started making all those mind numbing threes it was something we have never seen before. People were in awe of that and loved every minute of it. He could have looked like Popeye Jones and people would still have loved it. Now we have become numb to that style (thanks in part to Curry), but at the time, it was special.

I don't know how old you are but if you remember the Allen Iverson days, he was the same. He was an NBA phenomenon. People (specially kids) loved his unique style of play. The problem with him is that it was short lived because, unlike Steph's, it wasn't conductive to winning. Now, AI was as hood as it got, did that sell to white people too?

Second, Curry is without question a top 10 player of all-time and one of the most dominant players ever. He was Shaq-like but with a complete opposite style of play. He was the driving force in one of the most dominant dynasties of all-time. All this talk about injuries and a guy that never won it without him being more important is utter and complete bull , tbh.

I think Teeds is pretty far off on not recognizing Curry's greatness. He wasn't just the first guy to be him. He's still far and away the best guy. Depending on how you define "great", he's a legit GOAT candidate.

But don't overlook how skin color affects marketability. That's actually a more complicated subject than random posts on a sports forum can get into. Colorism's effect on how black Americans are marketed is a hard enough think for a lot of Americans to wrap their heads around, let alone folks from other countries with have their own nuances when it comes to race and color. I'm not throwing shade at you, man. It's just a whole thing. Curry's features definitely played a role in his marketability, though his play would've still made him a superstar.

[DAF86]

I think Teeds is pretty far off on not recognizing Curry's greatness. He wasn't just the first guy to be him. He's still far and away the best guy. Depending on how you define "great", he's a legit GOAT candidate.

But don't overlook how skin color affects marketability. That's actually a more complicated subject than random posts on a sports forum can get into. Colorism's effect on how black Americans are marketed is a hard enough think for a lot of Americans to wrap their heads around, let alone folks from other countries with have their own nuances when it comes to race and color. I'm not throwing shade at you, man. It's just a whole thing. Curry's features definitely played a role in his marketability, though his play would've still made him a superstar.

Dude, MJ is like the blackest dude ever and he's arguably the most beloved sportsman ever.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Dude, MJ is like the blackest dude ever and he's arguably the most beloved sportsman ever.

I was hoping for phrenology next.

[Chinook]

Dude, MJ is like the blackest dude ever and he's arguably the most beloved sportsman ever.

That doesn't mean colorism isn't a real concept with academic papers and written about it. Curry being a light skinned guy with green eyes and brown hair helped his marketability. It's not just about that. Accents and dialects also affect marketability. Personality in general plays a role, which is why Kobe gets rated higher than Duncan. That's also how Shaq overcomes being a gigantic dark-skinned man whose voice is often hard to understand because of how deep it is and how much nonsense comes out of mouth.

The point isn't that the rules are hard and immoveable. It's that the same eye that would prefer to market a white player than a black player doesn't just have a binary view. Curry has benefitted from that, and so will Wemby. Duncan could've benefitted from it but didn't to.

[DAF86]

That doesn't mean colorism isn't a real concept with academic papers and written about it. Curry being a light skinned guy with green eyes and brown hair helped his marketability. It's not just about that. Accents and dialects also affect marketability. Personality in general plays a role, which is why Kobe gets rated higher than Duncan. That's also how Shaq overcomes being a gigantic dark-skinned man whose voice is often hard to understand because of how deep it is and how much nonsense comes out of mouth.

The point isn't that the rules are hard and immoveable. It's that the same eye that would prefer to market a white player than a black player doesn't just have a binary view. Curry has benefitted from that, and so will Wemby. Duncan could've benefitted from it but didn't to.

So what you are really telling me is that it really isn't about colour but a mix of a lot of things?

The only reason Kobe gets rated higher than Duncan (by some) is because he played for the most popular franchise in basketball and he died young. That's it. Even then, most knowledgeable basketball journalists rank Duncan higher than Kobe. We have Splits with his iconic avatar that ilustrates how Kobe was ranked 12th by a ton of journalists when ESPN made its all-time list.

Look, I'm not saying "colorism" doesn't influence some people a bit, I'm saying it is far from the main reason players get popular. Heck, you said it yourself, there are examples of everything: Dark skin: MJ, image: AI, voice: Shaq. At the end of the day, the most important factor in a player's marketability it is their style of play, what they do on the court, and the team they play for.

[TD 21]

I never stated how wide the gap was, so that's a figment of your imagination, and quite frankly it sounds like you've got major issues with Curry's looks, being lightskinned/baby faced etc... I don't care about that one bit. I'm looking at his 13 seasons shooting over 40% from three and his career 3pt% of 42.6%, compared to CP3's career 36.9%.

I never said you did, hence the word "seem".

I'd be a hypocrite to have "major issues" with his looks, it's called being unbiased. Why else would his on court antics be called joy? Or his self serving statements be overlooked?

No one is debating who the better 3-point shooter was or even player, just that how you accomplish what you did absolutely matters.

It matters that James had to face 2 better teams 7 times in the Finals than Jordan ever did, it made the '07 championship the least satisfying, etc.

First of all, Curry's lightskin complexion and baby face has nothing to do with his popularity. It has all to do with his style of play.

Second, Curry is without question a top 10 player of all-time and one of the most dominant players ever. He was Shaq-like but with a complete opposite style of play. He was the driving force in one of the most dominant dynasties of all-time. All this talk about injuries and a guy that never won it without him being more important is utter and complete bull , tbh.

I said it was a combination, but you really shouldn't be commenting on this.

I get that as a light skinned perimeter player, he's basically your wet dream, but he has no credible argument to be top 10 all time nor they a dynasty (the cowards forfeited the opportunity by recruiting Durant).

The injuries are fact.

They played zero contenders in '15 (considering Cavaliers state) and every team they did play had multiple significant injuries.

In '17 and '18, he was part of the gutless contingent that begged Durant to join his team so that they could start on the 2 yard line while still getting injury breaks from any team that could challenge them (S bag, Paul, etc.)

In '22, same thing (Murray, Porter Jr., Morant) etc.

I think Teeds is pretty far off on not recognizing Curry's greatness. He wasn't just the first guy to be him. He's still far and away the best guy. Depending on how you define "great", he's a legit GOAT candidate.

By putting it into context instead of being a fanboy like so many? He's a top 15ish player of all time, with serious holes in his resume that most don't want to discuss because he's so beloved.

He's also quietly fallen off a cliff, but you're not allowed to tell the truth about him, so they claim he's tired every time he increasingly looks his age.

[DAF86]

I said it was a combination, but you really shouldn't be commenting on this.

Why?

I get that as a light skinned perimeter player, he's basically your wet dream

So now you're gonna start making assumptions about me out pretty much nothing? how very childish of you. I might have been giving you too much credit respecting you as a poster that I could agree or disagree with but that will argue with substance and in good faith like an intelligent mature person, tbh.

he has no credible argument to be top 10 all time nor they a dynasty (the cowards forfeited the opportunity by recruiting Durant).

4 time NBA champion, 2 time MVP, best shooter of all-time, historical impact metrics at his peak. There aren't ten guys with a better individual resume.

Regarding the Dynasty argument. 3 championships in 4 years, with the one they didn't win setting the all-time record for most wins in a season ever is pretty much a dynasty. I guess for you the Spurs weren't a dynasty either, nor the Shaq and Kobe Lakers, who overall won less than Curry's Warriors.

The injuries are fact.

They played zero contenders in '15 (considering Cavaliers state) and every team they did play had multiple significant injuries.

In '17 and '18, he was part of the gutless contingent that begged Durant to join his team so that they could start on the 2 yard line while still getting injury breaks from any team that could challenge them (S bag, Paul, etc.)

In '22, same thing (Murray, Porter Jr., Morant, etc.

Yeah, injuries are a fact and they happen every season on every sport. There are millions of different "what ifs?" for every champion ever crowned, but at the end of the day, you play what is in front of you and staying fit for an entire season is part of the challenge. Only irrational haters would try to diminish the greatness of a won championship by coming up with excuses that can be said about any champion in every compe ion in the history of man kind.

If I were to play the excuse card too, I would say that injuries actually took away from Curry having 5, because if the Warriors would have been healthy in 2019 I think they would have beaten the Raptors; but that's not how things work.

And just for the record, I was a Warriors hater during that time and wanted them to lose, like any self respecting sport fan would do with a dominant team that isn't their own, but I can still recognize the greatness of a player that I rooted against for years, because I'm not a dumbass with the emotional intelligence of an 8 year old child, tbh.

[spurraider21]

[lefty]

Dude, MJ is like the blackest dude ever and he's arguably the most beloved sportsman ever.

But he was making white men super rich

[Frenchfred]

Their 3 FRP would be more than fair. That is 3 high lottery picks for them and if they improve because they hit early so they are no longer lottery picks then so much the better for them.

I think that they are their picks and allow them to control their franchise destiny is an overlooked quality in those picks.

I agree with your statement but I think that Trae is flawed. If they want their 25 pick, they’ll to take Collins contract.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I agree with your statement but I think that Trae is flawed. If they want their 25 pick, they’ll to take Collins contract.

They have to take Collins, KJ and a filler to make it work.

[Atl Spur]

They have to take Collins, KJ and a filler to make it work.

Or take Trae jones, Devonte graham, and keldon OR Zollins.

[Frenchfred]

They have to take Collins, KJ and a filler to make it work.

We are under the cap, right? We could send Keldon and expiring Graham and that should enough?

[LeBowen]

We are under the cap, right? We could send Keldon and expiring Graham and that should enough?

Granham's contract is just $2M guaranteed for the next season, Hawks have no reason to take it.

Any trade involving Spurs trading away first rounders simply must have Collins also going away. We have to get rid of him, he's a detriment to the team.

[TD 21]

Accidentally clicked "like" on a post I'm about to excoriate . . .

Why?



So now you're gonna start making assumptions about me out pretty much nothing? how very childish of you. I might have been giving you too much credit respecting you as a poster that I could agree or disagree with but that will argue with substance and in good faith like an intelligent mature person, tbh.



4 time NBA champion, 2 time MVP, best shooter of all-time, historical impact metrics at his peak. There aren't ten guys with a better individual resume.

Regarding the Dynasty argument. 3 championships in 4 years, with the one they didn't win setting the all-time record for most wins in a season ever is pretty much a dynasty. I guess for you the Spurs weren't a dynasty either, nor the Shaq and Kobe Lakers, who overall won less than Curry's Warriors.



Yeah, injuries are a fact and they happen every season on every sport. There are millions of different "what ifs?" for every champion ever crowned, but at the end of the day, you play what is in front of you and staying fit for an entire season is part of the challenge. Only irrational haters would try to diminish the greatness of a won championship by coming up with excuses that can be said about any champion in every compe ion in the history of man kind.

If I were to play the excuse card too, I would say that injuries actually took away from Curry having 5, because if the Warriors would have been healthy in 2019 I think they would have beaten the Raptors; but that's not how things work.

And just for the record, I was a Warriors hater during that time and wanted them to lose, like any self respecting sport fan would do with a dominant team that isn't their own, but I can still recognize the greatness of a player that I rooted against for years, because I'm not a dumbass with the emotional intelligence of an 8 year old child, tbh.

Because it's not your place.

Either that or I've seen enough of your act over the years to draw that conclusion. Either way, you take shots at me all the time (including in this post), but you don't see me whining about it.

I know his accolades, the debate is the credibility of them in relation to all-time greats. His recruiting of Durant should be almost as big a hit to his "legacy" as it is the latter's actually going through with it. He has no magnus opus like the others who he's supposedly in the same sphere as or even those a tier or two down like Wade and Nowitzki.

All the Curry fanboys state this, while ignoring the operative word "unprecedented". Before you say it, I'm not blaming him, just contextualizing his accomplishments. The few times he didn't catch a break or have Durant holding his hand, he conveniently didn't win.

I was never a Jordan fan, but I also can't quibble with his resume. Not sure how calling someone with such a checkered resume top 15ish all-time is "not recognizing greatness."

[DAF86]

lol "excoriate"

Because it's not your place.

Why not?

Either that or I've seen enough of your act over the years to draw that conclusion. Either way, you take shots at me all the time (including in this post), but you don't see me whining about it.

What's this supossed act of me?

I know his accolades, the debate is the credibility of them in relation to all-time greats. His recruiting of Durant should be almost as big a hit to his "legacy" as it is the latter's actually going through with it. He has no magnus opus like the others who he's supposedly in the same sphere as or even those a tier or two down like Wade and Nowitzki.

Winning one when everyone thought he and his team were past their prime and nobody expected them to win I would consider a "magnus opus", tbh.

All the Curry fanboys state this, while ignoring the operative word "unprecedented". Before you say it, I'm not blaming him, just contextualizing his accomplishments. The few times he didn't catch a break or have Durant holding his hand, he conveniently didn't win.

Durant, the same guy without whom Curry won one before and one after? Durant, the same guy that hasn't won without Curry holding his hand? That Durant?

Also, how does this "unprecedented" break catching plays a part on Curry grading as, arguably, the most impactful player of all time at his peak?

I was never a Jordan fan, but I also can't quibble with his resume. Not sure how calling someone with such a checkered resume top 15ish all-time is "not recognizing greatness."

Because you clearly are being disingenuous. You speak about Durant holding Curry's hand, when it is the other way around. Durant is the guy that can't ring without Steph. You also cry about "unprecedented" injury luck, when the truth is that they had "unprecedented" injury luck one time, and even then, they probably would have still won it all, with or without it.

P/S: you erase the "like" by pressing the button again.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

We are under the cap, right? We could send Keldon and expiring Graham and that should enough?

Thy change the rules every few years about salary matching so I just go to the various trade calculators and work out permutations. Keldon and Graham would not be enough. Hawks would still need to take on salary themselves.