The jazz obviously want assets in return from either, or both, of those players, but they also know that their negotiating position is weak. Worst case for them is that Al and Milsap both walk, and they keep the expiring contracts for themselves (23m in cap space this summer). Not the worst thing that can happen. They are a team rebuilding away...
I dont see how the spurs can get either of these guys. Offering a package essential built around the 26-30th pick isn't enticing. Moving SJax is also useless since both those guys are on expiring deals themselves. If they are looking to use those players in the program, then sign them this summer. (Jefferson is a VERY poorman's Timmy, but at least he has a good post game). Dont think the spurs should move any of their young assets (Blair is not an asset) for either of these players when there is no guarantee they'd sign here this summer anyway.
Pretty much what I was thinking. The Jazz would trade either for a good point guard, which is why I suggested Milwaukee as a partner. I don't see another team that both has the assets Utah wants and is motivated to move those assets. I don't see the Spurs trading for Millsap unless it's a deal like the the Jack/RJ swap, where it is an aftershock of a larger deal.
That's also why I think Millsap is a legitimate buyout candidate if he gets moved to somewhere else as salary filler.
I guess Toronto may go after Millsap to replace Bargnani's production. They have a point in Calderon whom they've considered moving and who has asked for a trade, apparently. The Raptors don't have a big use for Millsap with their young bigs like Davis and Valanciunas, but they do have need for a wing who's better than Landry Fields. So they may accept Jack and a little sweetener as payment for Millsap. Utah would get their point, and maybe a little something else from San Antonio or Toronto. Blair may be good here, as he can be a deep-bench big in case of injuries.
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cgz7y58
Individually, that might not be enough to get Millsap, but it helps the other teams get what they need. In my opinion, this is how the Spurs should operate in the trade market: facilitating trades and getting players at a cheaper price than they could directly.
It's not a bad framework ^
im not so sure what the spurs' plan is with Joseph with Nando making a case for backup pg, and Cory relegated to Austin this year. But barring an injury or if the team stalls this year, I really don't see us moving Jax. Guy is too key for our playoff hopes this year. In the worst case he leaves after this year and we keep the cap space to ourselves.
Id fear going after either Milsap or Jefferson right now, and having the prospect of negotiating their contract plus that of Splitter at the same time. I'd like to see the spurs make a play for one of them in the summer however once we decide what to do with Splitter.
The Spurs will probably not have the cap room to sign any big free agent after resigning their own guys. It may be necessary, therefore, to trade for these players this year. I like Jack and think he can come up big in the post season, but if he's going to be a full-time power-forward, then he is probably not as good of an option as Millsap. If it all it costs is Jack and two end-of-bench players to get a legitimate (but short) power-forward, then I think they have to make that deal.
I fully believe we won't make a huge trade that would change the starting PF, I don't see it even tho some have hope we can get Millsap.
So to have any hope vs OKC, I think the playmaking of Manu and De Colo is essential. Splitter can't be a positive unless he outscores Ibaka because he's too slow to really slow him down on defense. So we have to impose our will and pound it inside, thus playing a playmaker next to TP is imo the scenario that gives us the best odds. The only difference KY could make is he would help even up the rebounding, of course he will defend Durant better but he was very passive in the last game.
The tie breaker to decide who we should send is Manu, either Manu starts and you got a weaker bench but we can keep Green (who is Pop's favorite) or you start De Colo and then Green becomes useless since he can't play PG. I think the first scenario is the most realistic one and I like Neal more than Green.
TP Manu
De Colo Green
That doesn't suck, especially since Green can defend PG pretty well and De Colo has looked like a decent SG defender so we can switch the D eventually.
So now the only blatant weakness would be the suspect rebounding (mostly relying on eyetest) with Tiago/Boris.
So Neal for a good rebounder, while still keeping in mind that Boris can play both SF and PF, so Neal for a center or Neal-Sjax for something more mobile with some range to play backup PF or SF with Tiago/Boris.
Sample size is limited but Derrick Williams seems like the best fit.
Roy (if shot) + Williams for Sjax + Neal + picks
Roy would have to be really shot tho... We could eventually throw a Matt Bonner and take back a Stiemsma...
Derrick Williams gets my final vote tbh.
What about JJ Hickson? Like Millsap and Jefferson he's on an expiring contract, and like both he fills a need in the Spurs frontcourt. The Trailblazers can get some value for him in his walk year if the Spurs offer CoJo and maybe a first round pick in this weak draft year.
Thoughts?
Hickson is making $4 Million this year. So any trade would have to have Bonner and/or Green in it. I don't think the Spurs would move Green, and I don't think Portland wants to move him. Unless Miles Leonard becomes a force, they will probably try to re-sign Hickson. I do like his rebounding and post game, though.
I would include Bonner for salary-matching purposes. For Portland the question is whether they view Hickson as a key piece of their future. He's having a great season and will be looking for a long-term deal this summer. It's possible they have inside track and interest in retaining him, but its also possibly a George Hill situation (blocked by all-star, need depth a another position). If the Spurs offered Joseph and a draft pick, that may be more appealing than Hickson on a 4yr deal for $8-10M/yr.
Probably a longshot like the others, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
I don't know if CoJo and a draft pick will be enough. If the Blazers make the playoffs, then they may want someone who can help them now. In this case the trade could be for an upcoming player, who is already contributing, and a draft pick. If the Blazers miss the playoffs, then they may want a couple of first round draft picks. I think it will all depend on how they do the next few weeks and their chances of making the playoffs.
Portland has a lot of cap room coming up, so I don't think they'll have a problem paying him whatever he's worth. Unlike the Hill situation, Hickson has locked up the starting center spot. He's also been averaging a double-double recently, so it seems he has found his role. The only way the Spurs get him, I think, is by signing him as a free agent. Hopefully, Hickson pulls a Gooden and tries for a buyout later this season. That's pretty doubtful as well, though.
Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA Y! Sources: With more knee trouble, Minnesota's Brandon Roy considers retirement again. http://tinyurl.com/cojhekp
--
Another set back for Roy.
Also Antawn Jamison could be available now that he is "mad" about his latest 5 DNPs
So, Roy is one the verge of retirement and Matt Bonner got yesterday his first DNP-CD since November 21st.
I don't know what Minny will do but, trading Derrick Williams for Neal + Bonner and signing Gelabale for the min, would be a good plan for them.
He is their best piece to trade, so it'll be the Spurs or someone else. Maybe the Kings will be interested.
Even tho I want him on the team badly, I'm pretty skeptical we could make the best offer.
We have Sjax's expiring contract if they want to get rid of Roy's contract while dealing Williams we could make it happen but plenty of teams have cap space/big expiring contracts.
I don't think a lot of team would send them a SG as good as Green even tho it wouldn't the Spurs first choice to send him obviously. JJ Re is said to be on the trading block tho so there may be some compe ion no matter what.
If the SG is Neal, maybe Sjax and Bonner could be included in the deal while taking back Roy's contract... Wolves could have some good help and some great flexibility this summer but I don't think this is nearly enough, even with some picks.
I don't think we can make anything good happen without dealing one of our two best trade baits : Splitter and Green.
San Antonio Spurs @spurs Gary Neal did not travel to Dallas with the team and will not play tomorrow vs. the Mavericks.So, Roy is one the verge of retirement and Matt Bonner got yesterday his first DNP-CD since November 21st.
I don't know what Minny will do but, trading Derrick Williams for Neal + Bonner and signing Gelabale for the min, would be a good plan for them.
Random crackpot trade scenario :
Tiago + Neal for Derrick Williams : they need a SG and a better backup big, not sure anyone could beat that package, salaries match perfectly, value seems fair to me because the Spurs players are expiring that will command more money in the offseason
Then we have to trade for a backup C or sign a TOSB
Edit : well scratch that, giving up Tiago would be too much.
Last edited by Paranoid Pop; 12-29-2012 at 06:06 PM.
Pop is in love with thoose two guys. Won't happen.San Antonio Spurs @spurs Gary Neal did not travel to Dallas with the team and will not play tomorrow vs. the Mavericks.
It does seem ridiculous to think that Neal could be the headliner of a package for a guy who was the 2nd pick in the draft a year and a half ago, but the bottom line is, at this writing, you could argue that Neal is the better player and he'd certainly be more useful on that team (he'd probably be their third option; tops on the perimeter), given their lack of depth at SG and league worst 3-point shooting. You've also got to factor in that Kahn is dumb and that the pressure is mounting, not only on his job, but to keep Love happy.
If Neal and Bonner won't get it done, they could always throw in a 1st. I've got no delusions about Williams becoming a star, but at the same time, you don't let a late 20's pick get in the way of this. This is potentially too good to be true.
Damned straight. I wouldn't mind moving Jack, though. Pop seems to be trying to make him a four. If the Spurs trade for Williams, they're gonna play him. Any minutes Jack would play would thereby evaporate. If they make that trade and add a wing like Gelabale, it could really help balance this team.
One trade that could be interesting.
Jackson + Neal + Bonner + Joseph to Toronto for Bargnani + Lawry
Toronto could mpove this way 'cause of the big cap space next year (Jackson and Neal expiring, Bonner owed just one million, Joseph limited amount of salary), after both Bargnani and Lawry have been realized as bad investments.
For us, Bargnani is obviously an improvement over Bonner/Blair like a fourth big, and Lawry become instantly our back up point guard (a role where he could be simply the best on the entire league).
This move opens also two spots where we could land some players waived (a la Childress).
The bad of this move is, obvioulsly, that we lose the corporate knowledge of Jackson and Neal (also of Bonner, if we just talk about regular season)...but the quality beneficial for the team (also in the long term run...I see no other "big" player we could join on the next year market with the possible cap space we should have) colud be too good to pass...
Bargnani is not worth the paper his contract is written on. He's a 7'0" footer but that doesn't mean he's what the Spurs need. Bargnani can not guard a lamp post. He's pathetic in post and block defense. I know the Spurs are an offense first driven team but that seems re ed to me.
I don't think he's "trying to make him a four", so much as he realizes that their rotation, as currently cons uted, should consist of nine. But within' that nine, there's only three bigs and none of them play major minutes, so someone has to eat up some minutes at PF and given his size and rapidly declining athleticism/speed/quickness, in addition to erratic shooting, it makes sense that he be that someone the majority of the time.
This reminds me of '08. I think they know they absolutely must acquire a fourth big, even if it means paying a higher price than they'd prefer (the only one from the top nine who might get traded is Neal; I'm speaking more to picks). It's not like it hasn't been a need in recent years, but they were still holding out hope that Bonner would come through in the playoffs or that they could get away with Blair for a few minutes. It's clear they've now accepted that neither of those two can be an option. They don't even want to have to play them in the regular season anymore, even with all of the maneuvering that the current big rotation requires.
Well, Millsap was benched for another entire fourth quarter in favor of Favors. Millsap only played 20 minutes to Favors' 29. Millsap can't be happy in a contract year for him with a reduced role possible at anytime (especially crunch time) and I would imagine even if he isn't publicly voicing his displeasure, I am sure he can't be too happy about this.
I don't know if there's a place for Jackson in a nine-man rotation after the assumed Williams trade (Neal and Bonner plus sweeteners) unless Manu plays the point. The way I see it, Williams is guaranteed minutes if the Spurs trade for him, so he'd probably be the fourth big/combo-forward. This pushes Jack out of the rotation if Manu plays the wing off the bench role. If Manu plays as a combo-guard, then Jack can be the wing, but he'll have to show that he has the athleticism still to not be a liability there. Honestly, I think this would be the best rotation if all goes well:
Parker
> Ginobili
Green
> Jackson
Leonard
> Williams
Duncan
> Diaw
Splitter
In the playoffs, we'll obviously see a skew with the Big Three getting heavy minutes along with whoever else is playing well. But the success of that rotation really depends on Jack being able to defend wings the way he defended Harden a couple of days ago.
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