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  1. #226
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    Wait a minute here... Horry did make a lot of good defensive plays but I don't ever recall him being a good defensive player.
    Seriously?

  2. #227
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Gee has another year of Toros options off the big club roster and Hairston doesn't. Gee also hasn't proven himself totally inept at shooting the NBA 3 pointer.
    Are you suggesting that Hairston has proven that he can't hit three pointers in the NBA?

  3. #228
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Clearly you don't grok the Spurs system at all.

    If you've ever watched their games, they would stick around even if they were playing a very poor game. The opponent would be making incredible plays and runs and the Spurs were always in the game.

    Well that's how I felt when the Suns played the Spurs last season. The Spurs played quite well on offense, yet the Suns were always hanging around. Do you know why? We could not stop their 3 point offense.

    Now if you looked on record against the Suns, we in fact have over the years limited their output. But even through all those years, we had the ability to out 3 point them. That combo of defense and offense wins the Spurs game. Take out one of them, and the Spurs aren't contenders.

    I'm glad the Spurs signed Neal, of course it would be even better if he did have some length. But big men like Robert Horry who can shoot and defend are a dime a dozen? Wait a minute here... Horry did make a lot of good defensive plays but I don't ever recall him being a good defensive player.
    Clearly you don't have any idea what defense is.

  4. #229
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    Yes seriously. Tim would score a ton of points on top of him when he was in the Lakers.

    He's serviceable as a PF defensive player, but not to be consider stellar.

  5. #230
    Believe. admiralsnackbar's Avatar
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    We're pretty much saying the same thing. I'll attempt to explain my position.

    Three pointers were really helpful in 2003 when the team was really young and would get themselves down by double digits. It's nice to have, but it's way overstated, because as recent Spurs teams have discovered: You can't make a comeback if you can't get stops, even if you're hitting threes. The comebacks that they staged were indeed due to a combination of timely shooting and great defense, but the ratio of defense to shooting was 80-20 for those teams. It's probably been closer to the opposite the last few years as the Spurs' defensive numbers have slid but their focus continues to be on shooters.

    Kerr's best play against the Mavericks was on the defensive end, but most people only remember the threes. Defense has been so taken for granted that the Spurs have slowly replaced it thinking that three point shooting is enough. Michael Finley has had some great moments for the Spurs, but being able to fill it up so that you make up for all your mistakes with the extra 50 percent from an outside shot is fool's gold. Always has been, always will be.

    Let's also make one other thing perfectly clear: Tim Duncan hasn't forced opponents to pick their poison in quite some time. That philosophy has slowly given way to the "he spreads the floor" disaster, which has the team seeing the next Steve Kerr or Stephen Jackson or Robert Horry in any guy who gets hot from outside with no thought of all the other things that made those players so special. It's the same lack of perspective that caused the Spurs to give so much burn to a guy who physically resembles Bruce Bowen or to get excited about yet another guy who goes on a hot streak in summer league.
    You're right, we do agree. The problem is that there aren't that many defensive badasses to go around. We were spoiled by the luxury of having Horry and especially Bruce (who set the defensive bar for the rest of the team) around but if we aren't going to find anybody to fill those shoes, we still have to put together some kind of squad that can do something. And for cheap.

    On the bright side, I can see having a tandem of Duncan and Splitter in the post as a good reason to be optimistic that opposing defenses will have to start sagging to protect the paint again. If that happens, the team 3P% should hopefully go up.

  6. #231
    The Great Unknown yavozerb's Avatar
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    Are you suggesting that Hairston has proven that he can't hit three pointers in the NBA?
    The problem I saw with Hairston is not the fact of not making 3pt shots, it was his lack of confidence in taking the shot itself. There were times he had a wide open 3 pt shots and would end up driving to the basket instead.

  7. #232
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    The problem I saw with Hairston is not the fact of not making 3pt shots, it was his lack of confidence in taking the shot itself. There were times he had a wide open 3 pt shots and would end up driving to the basket instead.
    Sigh.

    Well let's just hope that Chip Engeland has worked on him enough that he can't shoot it automatically. Same comment also goes for Gee.

    Lots of practice is good, but sometimes you just have to go with the players who have a natural talent of making the long range shot.

    Though let's make it perfectly clear, you can't be a perimeter player with the Spurs (with the exception of Parker) and be unable to make the 3 consistently.

  8. #233
    Vegas Strong Darkwaters's Avatar
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    Clearly you don't grok the Spurs system at all.
    LOL, nice.

    I will have you know that at least one other person here reads Heinlein.

  9. #234
    Veteran BG_Spurs_Fan's Avatar
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    LOL, nice.

    I will have you know that at least one other person here reads Heinlein.
    make that 2. Love Stranger in a strange land.

  10. #235
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    The problem I saw with Hairston is not the fact of not making 3pt shots, it was his lack of confidence in taking the shot itself. There were times he had a wide open 3 pt shots and would end up driving to the basket instead.
    I can agree with that to a certain extent. If you have a lane, you're supposed to drive to the basket, but passing up open shots is contrary to what he's there for. I'm still of the opinion that it's difficult not to press in garbage minutes and also that eleven attempts isn't enough to erase the stats he put up for two years in Austin.

  11. #236
    Vegas Strong Darkwaters's Avatar
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    make that 2. Love Stranger in a strange land.
    That book is trippy as . I read it during OCS a few years ago.

    Oh yea, I should probably say something Spurs related.

    ...

    ...

    ...

    James White!


  12. #237
    Believe.
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    make that 2. Love Stranger in a strange land.
    You must be from Mars or something...

  13. #238
    Win. Whatever it Takes Whisky Dog's Avatar
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    Two words:

    Steve Kerr.

    They hope

  14. #239
    Mr. Dignity Solid D's Avatar
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    Depending on how "guaranteed" Neal's contract is with the Spurs...and if the Spurs don't end up working out a trade.....then I think the Spurs add an injury insurance Big as their final move. If they can't find someone with some NBA experience at the 4 or 5, then Tyler Wilkerson or a healed-up James Gist are poor-man's options for Austin.

  15. #240
    Vegas Strong Darkwaters's Avatar
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    Depending on how "guaranteed" Neal's contract is with the Spurs...and if the Spurs don't end up working out a trade.....then I think the Spurs add an injury insurance Big as their final move. If they can't find someone with some NBA experience at the 4 or 5, then Tyler Wilkerson or a healed-up James Gist are poor-man's options for Austin.

    Unless they really think they see something special in Wilkerson or another developmental big then I think you sign Gist. The guy has been hanging around developing over seas for this team. I think a two year, unguaranteed, contract is the least you can toss his way. Plus, his skill set is in no way duplicated on this squad. While he might not prove to be a 3 per se, he might prove to be valuable regardless.

  16. #241
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    If you wanted to keep Gist around in Austin, that would be doable, but he pretty much became irrelevant the day Dejuan Blair fell to the Spurs. I like the guy, but he isn't going to be a three, and he's probably not going to be productive as a 4.

  17. #242
    Scrumtrulescent
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    If you wanted to keep Gist around in Austin, that would be doable, but he pretty much became irrelevant the day Dejuan Blair fell to the Spurs. I like the guy, but he isn't going to be a three, and he's probably not going to be productive as a 4.
    Agreed. Adding Gist to the roster serves no purpose.

  18. #243
    Out of the shadows lurker23's Avatar
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    So, I'm a little late to the party, but here are a few thoughts from my end:

    -This is a good signing for the Spurs, both basketball-wise and financially. Neal was a very good player in Europe, so he has a nice track record, but is still young enough (26 this fall) to have a little upside.

    Financially, I felt the Spurs had a much better chance of staying under the luxury tax back when everyone thought they were going to sign Richards (rookie minimum, very cheap contract). Contract-wise, they got Neal to replace him. Time will tell if the Spurs intend on staying under the luxury tax, primarily indicated by whether they use their LLE or remaining MLE. While I think this means that only 2 of Temple/Hairston/Gee/Jerrels will make the team now, whereas before 3 looked like a decent chance, don't rule out this possibility: Spurs keep a 14 or 15 man roster most of the year, then salary dump the least promising player at the trade deadline like they did Ratliff last year, thus getting a fuller evaluation while not paying luxury tax.


    -The one thing that most people are missing on Neal is that he's not just a spot-up shooter. I know that's primarily what he did in summer league, but the dude is a flat-out scorer. He can drive, finish at the rim, penetrate-and-dish, has a nice mid-range jumper off the dribble, and will work well in pick-and-roll sets. He's a very efficient scorer inside the arc (often shooting near-or-above 50% on FGs in Europe), and honestly his biggest question mark shooting-wise was whether he was a good enough 3-point shooter for the NBA. In that way, I think the Spurs and Spurs fans will be somewhat disappointed; unless he's improved tremendously in the offseason, expect his 3PT% to be near 35%, not the 50% he shot in summer league.

    -The big question mark for Neal on this Spurs team is defense. At previous levels, he hasn't shown much interest and/or skill at defending. However, in summer league he appeared to me to have put on some muscle, and could turn out to be a hard-nosed defender if he so chooses. While turning him into a defender won't happen overnight, he may gain some serious motivation when Pop gives him the "play defense or don't play at all" speech. If Neal ends up getting sent down to Austin, defense is the #1 thing they'll want him to work on, with perhaps passing being a distant 2nd.


    -The bottom line for the Spurs in this signing is that they felt they had found some true talent through the summer league, and didn't want to let him go. While they aren't the same player, I think a good comparison is Anthony Morrow. The Warriors found Morrow on their summer league roster and didn't let go, even though he was probably getting offers left and right from several NBA teams after tearing up Vegas and Salt Lake City. Similarly, the Spurs did the prudent thing and locked up Neal despite competing offers from Europe and perhaps other NBA teams. Morrow played two very good seasons with Golden State, but when he signed a 3 year, $12 million offer sheet this summer, the Warriors had to let him walk away due to financial reasons. While I don't expect Neal to come close to replicating Morrow's numbers, if he does break-out in the NBA, the Spurs have him locked up for 3 seasons in contrast to Morrow's 2.

  19. #244
    Robert Horry mode ohmwrecker's Avatar
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    Yah, he'll have a spot, right behind Popovich in Ian's vacated seat.

    So according to your book of wisdom, Temple is a point guard but George Hill isn't?

    In my book, they are almost identical players, save for a few inches of height. With a guy like Neal aboard on a guaranteed contract, the spurs don't have the minutes nor do they really need Garret Temple
    Book of wisdom? What is wrong with you, fruitcake?

    Temple and Hill aren't indentical and I think you would have a hard time getting any reasonable individual to agree with you on that one. Temple obviously is more experienced running the point than Hill. I'm not saying he is more talented or that he is a better player, just more experienced at the position. What makes you think that Neal is going to get PT over either one of those guys?

  20. #245
    TheDrewShow is salty lefty's Avatar
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    3 years 50 millions

  21. #246
    Tim to Tony to Manu! bdictjames's Avatar
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    What a shock.

  22. #247
    from across the pond Anonymous Cowherd's Avatar
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    any indication as to the salary?

    will it be the minimum (for Neal that's 885k I believe)? or have we used the rest of the MLE (the only way we can pay him more I believe)

  23. #248
    Veteran rjv's Avatar
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    nando better pay attention and step up his game overseas

  24. #249
    Scrumtrulescent
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    any indication as to the salary?

    will it be the minimum (for Neal that's 885k I believe)? or have we used the rest of the MLE (the only way we can pay him more I believe)
    Not sure of the salary, but since it's a 3 year deal we do know that it has to be paid out of the MLE.

  25. #250
    Out of the shadows lurker23's Avatar
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    Not sure of the salary, but since it's a 3 year deal we do know that it has to be paid out of the MLE.
    True, don't know why I didn't realize that. So, with the exception of # of years, the Spurs LLE is now has more money left than their MLE. However, I don't expect them to use either at this point, and the current roster could be very close to the final roster.

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