Wilson Chandler rumored to Spurs

[TD 21]

As for why the Pacers would dump Rush, I don't know. Right now in the media the only player they're trying to dump is Dahntay Jones (I'm not even counting Solomon Jones who is just a fringe roster guy).

Dahntay Jones is more unmovable than Rush with his longer contract, and he hasn't caused Larry Bird any headaches.

Rush has no future in Indiana. Not that they're really keen to keep Dunleavy, but Paul George is the future and Fightin' Lance Stephenson was their most promising, exciting summer leaguer and 2nd round pick until he had to act like Lance Stephenson.

Brandon Rush getting suspended for the 5 games isn't his first offense, I think it's the third time he's been popped. He's not a good enough player for them to jerk around with him.

Getting a first for Rush might be the best they can do.

Not that I'm saying they will dump Rush, I don't even expect them to.

But he's in his coaches doghouse, his GM's doghouse, behind other young players in the rotation, and they've so far refused to decide to pick up his option, unlike their beloved Hibbert.

I definitely think they'd be open to trading him and I understand why, but at the same time, it's going to take decent value.

Jones was a foolish contract at the time and it's coming back to bite them now. They already had Rush to fill that role, who's younger, cheaper, already better and has a higher upside.

Why would they be keen to keep Dunleavy? If Rush ever matures and George and Stephenson reach their potential, then those three, along with Granger, could form a nice wing rotation. There's good versatility amongst them too, as Granger can play small ball four and Stephenson can play some point (or at least they're going to force him to play some point, it appears).

I agree Rush isn't good enough to jerk them around, but I still think it'll take a 1st round pick to pry him away from the Pacers.

[objective]

I definitely think they'd be open to trading him and I understand why, but at the same time, it's going to take decent value.

Jones was a foolish contract at the time and it's coming back to bite them now. They already had Rush to fill that role, who's younger, cheaper, already better and has a higher upside.

Why would they be keen to keep Dunleavy? If Rush ever matures and George and Stephenson reach their potential, then those three, along with Granger, could form a nice wing rotation. There's good versatility amongst them too, as Granger can play small ball four and Stephenson can play some point (or at least they're going to force him to play some point, it appears).

I agree Rush isn't good enough to jerk them around, but I still think it'll take a 1st round pick to pry him away from the Pacers.

sorry, I thought I was clear enough. They're not keen to keep Dunleavy and it's likely they'll just dump him when his contract is over this summer.

But he is not the reason Rush is in stuck behind in their future plans, Paul George and Rush's poor decisions are. So I was addressing the possibility that when Dunleavy is gone that would free up a spot for Rush, but a bigger consequence instead would free up the starting spot for Paul George.

I agree a first round for Rush would be required, and I think it would be worth it for the Spurs for a number of reasons:

A. He has rookie option for next season and then a QO RFA season, so it wouldn't be a one year rental, but a two year at worst.

B. His drug of choice won't result in any harsher penalties than repeated 5 game suspensions. It's not like one more strike and he's gone for a year or two like what happened with Chris Anderson's harder drugs. The only way his suspensions get worse is if he blows off the league's drug program/rehab lessons.

C. Will the 2011 first rounder be better defensively and as good a three point shooter as Rush? Hard to project when the Spurs will likely be picking in the 20s. James Anderson fell because of an injury preventing workouts, no guarantee someone else falls like that.

D. He's a Kansas guy and can chill with RC and Jr.

[HarlemHeat37]

As I said earlier in the thread, I would prefer Rush to Chandler for this team, he would be a better fit..

While I'm high on Chandler, I don't know if I would give up a 1st round pick for a rental..while Chandler is just as good or better than Jefferson right now, his potential still heavily outweighs his current production..I'm high on him due to his ceiling..I would be excited to get him so that he can work with Pop and the rest of the Spurs for the future, but I don't know how much of a difference he would make right now..

He still has a lot of bad habits right now..he still has to get the D'Antoni and Knicks franchise out of his system..unfortunately, I don't know if the Jefferson and Bonner contracts would allow for a long-term deal(considering all the other cir stances with other players on the team)..

[anonoftheinternets]

re: the bolded parts

You posted that WC sucked. I looked at your numbers, dug marginally deeper, and came away completely unconvinced by your own stats, as opposed to finding them sobering.

RJ has played with . . .

A. Better defensive players, especially in the post having his back and even on the wing. Tim Duncan's DRtg numbers are amazing. Andrew Bogut for MIL last year, without even having to look up his numbers, was a good defensive center. Manu Ginobili, statistically by DRtg, I believe was just as good or even better than Bowen.

Who was out there having Chandler's back? David Lee and Danilo Galinari?

B. RJ has had defensive minded coaches who had systems. Pop, Skiles, Frank.

Chandler spent the last two years with D'Antoni. What was he supposed to do?

So no, I don't think anyone is arguing that Chandler is Bowen or Battier.

But is it really such a stretch to think he's an upgrade over RJ defensively?

Shouldn't the Spurs want an upgrade option?

He's not much of an improvement over RJ in the 3pt department, though he's looked good in the games I've watched this pre-season. But unlike RJ, he can play the 4, something RJ either can't or won't, as evidenced by the stories last year about RJ being removed from the role of smallball 4.

I've posted most recently on Chandler that I didn't think it was realistic because he'd be a one year rental, as the Spurs likely wouldn't/couldn't fork out the money to keep him.

But today I was recalling how they dumped 1 first round pick for what at the time was a 1/2 year rental of Kurt Thomas because they were in the desperate 'win now' mode.

Maybe that could happen again?

EDIT: confused the # of picks of the Thomas trade for the Nazr trade, fixed it to only 1 first rounder

right, the point being, im saying WC is no defensive wiz, and on O he is inferior to RJ, whats the point of getting another slightly better RJ?

all u can say based on RJ having better teammates and WC having worse teammates is possibly he can be better on D on the spurs than he is in NY.

How does that quantify into getting a definite wing stopper the spurs desperately need? All im saying is we need to focus on proven Defensive options. And i dont really see feel the WC move is worth it imo. He is a very ordinary fit on O and not a proven defender on D.

[objective]

right, the point being, im saying WC is no defensive wiz, and on O he is inferior to RJ, whats the point of getting another slightly better RJ?

all u can say based on RJ having better teammates and WC having worse teammates is possibly he can be better on D on the spurs than he is in NY.

How does that quantify into getting a definite wing stopper the spurs desperately need? All im saying is we need to focus on proven Defensive options. And i dont really see feel the WC move is worth it imo. He is a very ordinary fit on O and not a proven defender on D.

he may not be definate, but people are realizing that behind RJ's average/mediocre defense there's cement shoes Bobby Simmons and unproven 6-6 rookie James Anderson. Maybe Anderson becomes the man, but who knows?

So if people are intrigued by conjecture that Chandler, who has some some decent tools plus size, could be available for a 1st and filler, I don't think that's such a bad option. What other defensive options are there on the market? Besides Chandler's name in rumours, there's Fernandez who is no stopper, and Dahntay Jones who can't shoot. And mine and others' hopeful suppositions about Brandon Rush.

That's all that comes to mind.

[objective]

more on Rush:

True to his word, O'Brien didn't even play Rush tonight against the Hornets. 12 guys got minutes, but a DNP-CD for Rush.

[anonoftheinternets]

he may not be definate, but people are realizing that behind RJ's average/mediocre defense there's cement shoes Bobby Simmons and unproven 6-6 rookie James Anderson. Maybe Anderson becomes the man, but who knows?

So if people are intrigued by conjecture that Chandler, who has some some decent tools plus size, could be available for a 1st and filler, I don't think that's such a bad option. What other defensive options are there on the market? Besides Chandler's name in rumours, there's Fernandez who is no stopper, and Dahntay Jones who can't shoot. And mine and others' hopeful suppositions about Brandon Rush.

That's all that comes to mind.

right, the only reason i was skeptical about WC was, i dint want a drew gooden repeat, where it was a one year rental and would slow down Andersons progress. If it was someone who was definitely a stopper i would be all for it, or even making RJ his backup .

But at this point i think i feel all the fuss over a 1 year rental whose defense is only potential at this point is *not worth it. Especially since there are some signs from Anderson that he might be up to handling the backup 3 spot.

edit - correction - Freudian slip .

[objective]

more on Rush:

True to his word, O'Brien didn't even play Rush tonight against the Hornets. 12 guys got minutes, but a DNP-CD for Rush.

more specifically, Granger sprained his ankle and sat the second half, and Rush still didn't get minutes.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

It's certainly cooled down (mostly, I assume, because Kori groused about it), but are you ting me? There were whole threads dedicated to "RJ is gay". Please. You are better than that. Just because it hasn't happened as much this week doesn't mean it didn't happen. I'm not against a joke or two, if it's funny, but it was beaten to death and used in legitimate arguments. I had gay insinuations directed at me when I defended RJ.
GTFO.

It's not a "strawman argument" if it actually happened. In fact, using "RJ is gay" in a real discussion is more of a strawman. You guys use this term way too often to not know what it means.

I have never used a gay slur against RJ, that was my point to Manu. I shouldn't be grouped with the fools who do.

As for a strawman, it is a misrepresentation of someone else's position to make a point, which is exactly what Manu did by implying that I used gay slurs against RJ.

[thispego]

imvo you can use gay as a cutdown because being gay is most certainly a negative thing

[dunkman]

Unfortunately the FO plan to divide the MLE between Splitter and the wing defender wasn't succeful. True to be said, Barnes and Jones signed for less money than the $2.4M / year that the Spurs can offer and Raja Bell signed for not much more than that.

Chandler would be a nice addition for the post-Duncan era, since quality SF's are difficult to get with lower first round picks. However, the Spurs already have RJ signed for 4 seasons and Pop isn't as good as Riley or Brown in taking a wing defender to another level, so it's not a sure bet Chandler will make all-defensive teams with the Spurs if he didn't already.

The Spurs have some holes in the roster, as evidenced by the vulnerability to the Suns P&R offense. Splitter may help there in the switch P&R defense and perhaps Anderson or Neal can pass trough the screens better than Hill. Parker will make more offensive pressure over Nash, and they lost Amare, plus Nash is one year older. In the end most teams have some deficiencies, even the Celtics with 3 of 4 star players being old. The Spurs don't really lack talent and Hill is good defensive player.

After this season, the Spurs will have various options. Prince and Battier are free agents. Dice will retire apparently, which would open financial possibilities to sing one of those players.

[Obstructed_View]

Pop should offer Bowen an assistant coach job.

[ohmwrecker]

I have never used a gay slur against RJ, that was my point to Manu. I shouldn't be grouped with the fools who do.

As for a strawman, it is a misrepresentation of someone else's position to make a point, which is exactly what Manu did by implying that I used gay slurs against RJ.

I took his comment as more of a general complaint and that is how I intended mine, mostly. I really don't have a problem with jokes if they are funny, but to attempt to derail someone's argument by essentially becoming an "lol gay" troll is cheap.
I appreciate that you are able to discuss the issue without resorting to the tactic.
I know exactly what a strawman is and it is often overused and incorrectly defined on this board. If it was a general statement about "RJ haters" using gay slurs in arguments it's not a strawman. A strawman, as a debate tactic, is used to derail an opponent by arguing a tangent to their point. If it is successful your opponent will lose his train of thought and argue the tangent as well. At which point, you can go back to your point to "win" the debate. It's a simple diversion and only works on a weak opponent.
For our purposes, it is usually the weak opponent who uses the strawman because they are ill equipped to argue on topic.

[Mal]

I really dont want to dig whole 14 pages, so can someone tell me what is this trade status for now ? Only a rumour or something actually going on ?

[Leetonidas]

Rumor, no real concrete evidence the Spurs are even talking to the Knicks about him. Brandon Rush seems more likely.

[ChuckD]

Rumor, no real concrete evidence the Spurs are even talking to the Knicks about him. Brandon Rush seems more likely.

Actually, neither of them seems remotely likely to me. I think the roster will be cons uted from a subset of the players now signed.

[TheSpursFNRule]

will you guys shut the up already?

[Blackjack]

will you guys shut the up already?

Commie.

[TheSpursFNRule]

Commie.

You don't think its a little much to keep this thread going? Its like leaving an empty popsicle box in the freezer, you get excited because something might be in there but in the end its just nothing.

[Blackjack]

You don't think its a little much to keep this thread going? Its like leaving an empty popsicle box in the freezer, you get excited because something might be in there but in the end its just nothing.

It's a thread existing because it has to do with the one thing that may be keepin the Spurs from getting another le: wing defender.

Many of the threads here start from something that evolves. If it keeps going, it's because there are people here that keep it going. There's a point of contention or the topic is pressing enough to keep it going.

It's a message board. Some of the best reading is nonsense.

[mountainballer]

It's a thread existing because it has to do with the one thing that may be keepin the Spurs from getting another le: wing defender.

Many of the threads here start from something that evolves. If it keeps going, it's because there are people here that keep it going. There's a point of contention or the topic is pressing enough to keep it going.

It's a message board. Some of the best reading is nonsense.

this.
and maybe our friends from the "we will keep this forum clean from insubstantial threads" force may have noticed that currently on the first 5 pages of ST there isn't a single other thread about the Spurs need of a wing defender, when usually there a 5 such threads on the very first page of the ST forum. well, maybe b/c some of this has been discussed in here.

however.
if Chandler maybe has been on the market for a (late) 1st rounder a month ago, he likely isn't any longer, or (more likely) his price now is significantely higher. for those who didn't notice: he looks great this preseason, probably the 2nd best player on the Knicks behind Amare. and considering the latest reports that Azubuike will be out for some more months, Knicks also have one more reason to keep him.

so, back to the other obvious options.
Rush is on his way out of Indy. my guess is, the Pacers just want a pick back and are waiting for the best offer. a 1st rounder will do it. interested teams likely only offer 2nd rounders. I would take the risk and offer the 2011 1st rounder, if the Pacers send back also their 2nd rounder. (I assume this will be somewhere between 33 and 38)

the other one is Dahntay Jones. yes, not very intriguing. still and upgrade over our defensive options for the perimeter. and even if he is 2 inches smaller than Simmons (and exactly the same size like Anderson) he would be a better solution to defend SFs than Simmons and Anderson will be.

[TD 21]

this.
and maybe our friends from the "we will keep this forum clean from insubstantial threads" force may have noticed that currently on the first 5 pages of ST there isn't a single other thread about the Spurs need of a wing defender, when usually there a 5 such threads on the very first page of the ST forum. well, maybe b/c some of this has been discussed in here.

however.
if Chandler maybe has been on the market for a (late) 1st rounder a month ago, he likely isn't any longer, or (more likely) his price now is significantely higher. for those who didn't notice: he looks great this preseason, probably the 2nd best player on the Knicks behind Amare. and considering the latest reports that Azubuike will be out for some more months, Knicks also have one more reason to keep him.

so, back to the other obvious options.
Rush is on his way out of Indy. my guess is, the Pacers just want a pick back and are waiting for the best offer. a 1st rounder will do it. interested teams likely only offer 2nd rounders. I would take the risk and offer the 2011 1st rounder, if the Pacers send back also their 2nd rounder. (I assume this will be somewhere between 33 and 38)

the other one is Dahntay Jones. yes, not very intriguing. still and upgrade over our defensive options for the perimeter. and even if he is 2 inches smaller than Simmons (and exactly the same size like Anderson) he would be a better solution to defend SFs than Simmons and Anderson will be.

The Spurs pick will probably be somewhere between 20-25. Let's say it's 24 or 25 and the Pacers pick is 34 or 35. Sure, they move up ten spots, but is that enough for Rush? I know he's not a star in the making and he's had his problems, but still, I'm not sure that's enough. Although, a team might not give up a 1st for him at this point without getting back a 2nd. If that's the case, it'll come down to how desperate they are to move him.

Jones doesn't make much sense. Sure, he's a good perimeter defender, but he's a poor perimeter shooter and he's signed for three more seasons. He's not good enough to justify taking on his contract.

[mountainballer]

The Spurs pick will probably be somewhere between 20-25. Let's say it's 24 or 25 and the Pacers pick is 34 or 35. Sure, they move up ten spots, but is that enough for Rush? I know he's not a star in the making and he's had his problems, but still, I'm not sure that's enough. Although, a team might not give up a 1st for him at this point without getting back a 2nd. If that's the case, it'll come down to how desperate they are to move him.

Jones doesn't make much sense. Sure, he's a good perimeter defender, but he's a poor perimeter shooter and he's signed for three more seasons. He's not good enough to justify taking on his contract.

agree about Jones. just mentioned him, because he definitely is on the block.
(I thought his 3rd year is a TO, in fact it's a PO, so yes, his contract is a deal breaker)

back to Brandon Rush.
Pacers need to make some decisions soon. as far as I know Pacers didn't yet pick up his option for 2011-12. (I guess they need to do it till Oct.31st)
no team would trade a 1st rounder for him, if he will become an unrestricted FA in 2011.

btw. came across a nice analysis about the defensive numbers of Brandon Rush. pretty impressive.
http://alwaysmillertime.com/2010/07/...sh-an-apology/

[ChuckD]

I really dont want to dig whole 14 pages, so can someone tell me what is this trade status for now ? Only a rumour or something actually going on ?

The fact that it's 14 pages, weeks old, and nothing has happened should tell you all you need to know.

[dunkman]

agree about Jones. just mentioned him, because he definitely is on the block.
(I thought his 3rd year is a TO, in fact it's a PO, so yes, his contract is a deal breaker)

back to Brandon Rush.
Pacers need to make some decisions soon. as far as I know Pacers didn't yet pick up his option for 2011-12. (I guess they need to do it till Oct.31st)
no team would trade a 1st rounder for him, if he will become an unrestricted FA in 2011.

btw. came across a nice analysis about the defensive numbers of Brandon Rush. pretty impressive.
http://alwaysmillertime.com/2010/07/...sh-an-apology/

Brandon Rush seems to be undersized at 6'6.1/2" with shoes, but has compact neck and large arms (6'11.1/4" wingspan).

40% 3pt shooter and, as stats show, a great defensive player.

He mostly played SG in the NBA. However, I think that the Spurs should start Anderson or Neal, which would move Rush to SF. If he proves he can defend for the Spurs, Pop will start him in no time. The team always started Bowen and sometimes Bogans.

BTW, there should be a separate thread about Rush.