The ugly side of a Kawhi trade, tbh...

[DPG21920]

You're so focused on that 3-seed even though the Spurs are a 7-seed, and closer to the 9-seed than the 3-seed. They're nothing close to a typical WC (3) seed, which is a team that usually has an underdog shot at a le.

2017: Rockets 55-17
2016: Thunder 55-17
2015: Clippers 56-26
2014: Clippers 57-25
2013: Nuggets 57-25
2012: Lakers 41-25 (extrapolates to 51-31 in an 82 game season)
2011: Mavericks 57-25
2010: Suns 54-28
2009: Spurs 54-28
2008: Spurs 56-26
2007: Spurs 58-24

Im not focused on the third seed; I am providing context. The new West has a ton of talent still. There were only 2 50 win teams. It’s really hard to win 50+ (at least consistently). This year and beyond since there are so many really good 2nd tier teams (below HOU/GS) that winning 50 is tough because they beat each other up.

It doesn’t mean they all suck.

[SAGirl]

another example of good team that just adds a FA in Rubio in the offseason and a good pick (Mitc ) and take a leap is the Jazz.
I do think the Spurs are in a different timeline since both the Jazz and Boston are a lot younger and had been rebuilding for several years... you can debate whether they are contenders or not, but it's fine.
Spurs are a whole lot older. Whatever they decide to do, I am fine with. I still think Kawhi is a spur next season and we shall see what happens. I think Sprus will only trade him for top value (think it was objective who said the top 2 picks in this draft otherwise move along, I agree with him). If Spurs don't get what they want they hold on to him and see what happens next season.

[baseline bum]

Im not focused on the third seed; I am providing context. The new West has a ton of talent still. There were only 2 50 win teams. It’s really hard to win 50+ (at least consistently). This year and beyond since there are so many really good 2nd tier teams (below HOU/GS) that winning 50 is tough because they beat each other up.

It doesn’t mean they all suck.

You have been talking about them being 2 games from the 3-seed nonstop. They're at the low end of a bunch of playoff teams bunched up together for that have no chance at competing for the conference. You seem to act like it's some kind of fluke they're the 7-seed instead of the 3-seed but their road performance has been terrible since the All Star break and they're a team that just barely held on to make the playoffs. If it wasn't for Curry + Thompson + Durant + Green all being injured one game this is a lottery team. This just isn't a great situation worth holding on to. The team is way too flawed with stupid contracts for non-productive players and minimal young talent.

[DPG21920]

You have been talking about them being 2 games from the 3-seed nonstop. They're at the low end of a bunch of playoff teams bunched up together for that have no chance at competing for the conference. You seem to act like it's some kind of fluke they're the 7-seed instead of the 3-seed but their road performance has been terrible since the All Star break and they're a team that just barely held on to make the playoffs. If it wasn't for Curry + Thompson + Durant + Green all being injured one game this is a lottery team. This just isn't a great situation worth holding on to. The team is way too flawed with stupid contracts for non-productive players and minimal young talent.

Because it’s a counter/context to those saying “tank tank tank!” They are every bit as close to the top side of the playoff seeds as being out.

You are wrong about how to go about things, but like I said, unless LMA demands to be traded or something SA isn’t going to blow it up whether Kawhi is moved or not.

Also, your analysis is hilarious. You keep citing all the “lucky” breaks SA had. The “lucky” breaks are no where near the bad breaks. SA led by double digits in an insane amount of games and just statistically speaking they should have several more wins if they didn’t have some miraculous meltdowns.

Many of the road losses, even vs good teams, SA had those games and just something crazy happened at the end (like crappy Lonzo draining 3’s so far beyond his normal average).

[SAGirl]

It was nice. I would much rather have the playoffs and the 18th pick than the 14th and it’s not really even close. You don’t want to miss the playoffs just to jump up 4 spots. If you can be truly bad and get a top 3 pick, ok maybe but for 14th?? No.

I agree.
first of all, if you are going to tank do it properly. Get rid of vets that have no business playing in this team. I know you are a Tony fan but no. Play White to begin with.
Second, if you are tanking you want to lose early and often. It wasn't possible this year bc Kiwi really wanted to play (tried in December and shut himself down) he kept trying to come back as late as mid march. At some point Spurs lost hope that he would make it but then it was almost with the playoffs upon them. They had veterans who might retire in the team, and win now players like Gay,\ who really signed with the team to win and get in the playoffs and competed really hard towards that. Don't you think veterans also get upset with franchises when they are getting benched bc the team is tanking? It is not just Silver cracking down on that, but guys want the heck out. Good luck luring anyone else next summer with those cir stances. It wasn't feasible this year.
Third there is no much difference between 14-18 most of the time.

I also think you learn a lot of things in the playoffs about players, like regular season warriors folding in the playoffs, and hopefully, might be wishful thinking but you discover something good about someone. Even all this Kiwi saga would have been hushed up with the Spurs going into the summer in a lot of uncertainty with nothing to be heard from them until the draft perhaps... whereas now bc they are in the playoffs the media is inquiring.

Finally I'd hope that guys who have folded repeatedly in the playoffs whether or not they are culture guys, the Spurs have good reasons to move on from and can have an honest sit down with them based on recent performance including playoffs.

[DPG21920]

Even with an UNEXPECTED no Kawhi. Even with little from TP/Manu consistently. Even with Mills and a new starting PG, SA made the playoffs.

It’s not hard to imagine with simply replacing TP/Manu with either minutes for White and/or free agents, plus maybe some first round picks, that this team could win 4-6 more games which puts them over 50 AGAIN

[baseline bum]

Also, your analysis is hilarious. You keep citing all the “lucky” breaks SA had. The “lucky” breaks are no where near the bad breaks. SA led by double digits in an insane amount of games and just statistically speaking they should have several more wins if they didn’t have some miraculous meltdowns.

If something keeps happening all the time you just think it's bad luck?

[DPG21920]

If something keeps happening all the time you just think it's bad luck?

Sometimes, ya. That’s not to say SA doesn’t have legit issues. It’s clear they do. I”m saying you can’t just look at something only on the negative and conveniently forget about the bad luck too.

They played well in many of the road losses and then just melted down. Is what it is, but let’s not act like they just only won games and made the playoffs just because of good luck!!

[DPG21920]

I’m not saying SA doesn’t have holes. But they can improve and there is no way you blow up a playoff-level team that you can reasonably say that with some tweaks (free agency, draft picks, trades) can win 50+

Even with a team who you think sucks horribly, they won nearly 50. You are saying you don’t think a lottery pick or multiple plus some free agents and replacing TP/Manu and maybe Mills will net them 3 more wins?

[cjw]

Again, even though I don’t think they would, they should not trade Kawhi. Make him suffer both the financial and basketball ramifications of his decisions.

Make sure he loses 70M. Make sure you limit his options on where he can play to teams that have capspace when he’s a free agent after next season.

Finally someone who gets it. Cap space is going to be tight and his options will be severely limited if the Spurs don’t facilitate a S&T. Everyone looking at teams as having space in 15 months forget to project out the fact that they’ll sign players & rookies this offseason. The options may not look that great 15 months from now, especially if Lebron and George eat up some of that max space cooking in places like LA or Philly.

[acoelho1]

As I said in another thread, the Spurs need to keep Kawhi at all cost, which means offering the Supermax. You dont trade players with his talents. Obviously, if he declines and wants to be traded then you have to assess if this relationship can be repaired. My guess is if he wants out, he or his inner circle definitely wants to go to one of the L.A. teams and be closer to home. My hope is Pop and RC will resolve the issue in offseason. Remember LA was halfway out the door and he had a great year. Lets hope for the same ending in this saga.

[Strategic]

Yes, the top players are getting massive deals, but that is because they care and market themselves heavily off court. Unless Kawhi is willing to drastically change that side of himself (which seems unlikely) they aren’t just coughing up money for a really unmarketable star no matter how talented he is on the court.

Maybe he’s taking some classes at the Julliard School during his spare time in New York. At least he could properly act like he gives a damn.

[baseline bum]

Again, even though I don’t think they would, they should not trade Kawhi. Make him suffer both the financial and basketball ramifications of his decisions.

Make sure he loses 70M. Make sure you limit his options on where he can play to teams that have capspace when he’s a free agent after next season.

So you want to lose Kawhi for nothing and not trade Aldridge?

[DPG21920]

So you want to lose Kawhi for nothing and not trade Aldridge?

The not trading him part was me being upset if all of this is true. I don’t really think that would happen. It was me frustrated at how snakey this Kawhi has been (if the reports are true)

[vy65]

You have been talking about them being 2 games from the 3-seed nonstop. They're at the low end of a bunch of playoff teams bunched up together for that have no chance at competing for the conference. You seem to act like it's some kind of fluke they're the 7-seed instead of the 3-seed but their road performance has been terrible since the All Star break and they're a team that just barely held on to make the playoffs. If it wasn't for Curry + Thompson + Durant + Green all being injured one game this is a lottery team. This just isn't a great situation worth holding on to. The team is way too flawed with stupid contracts for non-productive players and minimal young talent.

Holy . Bold this man.

[RD2191]

The not trading him part was me being upset if all of this is true. I don’t really think that would happen. It was me frustrated at how snakey this Kawhi has been (if the reports are true)

Snakey

[Mugen]

This team sans Kawhi is so below championship level contention, it's not even funny. They're about to be swept ( i doubt any game is compe ive tbh) by a team missing its most important player.

Calling them a piece or two away from FA and the draft from being a top 3-4 contender is such a massive mischaracterization.

Unfortunately, I doubt the FO will tank because Pop probably still has a couple of years left. But if Kawhi isn't on the team these next 3-4 seasons, the Spurs aren't even sniffing a Finals appearance let alone a championship.

[r0drig0lac]

This team sans Kawhi is so below championship level contention, it's not even funny. They're about to be swept ( i doubt any game is compe ive tbh) by a team missing its most important player.

Calling them a piece or two away from FA and the draft from being a top 3-4 contender is such a massive mischaracterization.

Unfortunately, I doubt the FO will tank because Pop probably still has a couple of years left. But if Kawhi isn't on the team these next 3-4 seasons, the Spurs aren't even sniffing a Finals appearance let alone a championship.

I would call it "a complete joke"

[DPG21920]

This team sans Kawhi is so below championship level contention, it's not even funny. They're about to be swept ( i doubt any game is compe ive tbh) by a team missing its most important player.

Calling them a piece or two away from FA and the draft from being a top 3-4 contender is such a massive mischaracterization.

Unfortunately, I doubt the FO will tank because Pop probably still has a couple of years left. But if Kawhi isn't on the team these next 3-4 seasons, the Spurs aren't even sniffing a Finals appearance let alone a championship.

No it’s not. It’s GS world right now, that doesn’t mean you blow things up. Other than GS and maybe HOU, who would be better than SA with this LMA and replacing TP/Manu with White and lottery pick(s) and some other hand pick free agents?

[SAGirl]

This team sans Kawhi is so below championship level contention, it's not even funny. They're about to be swept ( i doubt any game is compe ive tbh) by a team missing its most important player.

Calling them a piece or two away from FA and the draft from being a top 3-4 contender is such a massive mischaracterization.

Unfortunately, I doubt the FO will tank because Pop probably still has a couple of years left. But if Kawhi isn't on the team these next 3-4 seasons, the Spurs aren't even sniffing a Finals appearance let alone a championship.

I just assume a lot of dead weight they are carrying will be replaced with young talent or better FA.
Whether RC can pull that magic I don't know. They have saddled themselves with too much loyalty deals, etc..

[Mugen]

No it’s not. It’s GS world right now, that doesn’t mean you blow things up. Other than GS and maybe HOU, who would be better than SA with this LMA and replacing TP/Manu with White and lottery pick(s) and some other hand pick free agents?

Man, Deeps. I just can't believe you look at this roster and look back on this season and think "this team is a Derrick White and quality starter away from being a top 3-4 team in the league."

This squad would have been lucky to eek 2 games out against Denver. The lack of talent is frighteningly bad. Their 2nd best player this season is either 40 years old or Rudy F'N Gay coming off an achilles tear

[DPG21920]

Dude, lol, the teams you all loved talent wise (Minny, Portland, OKC) had the same record basically as SA

Maybe you all don’t evaluate talent properly. Answer the question though, besides Golden State and Houston, who would be better than the Spurs if they had this team + lottery picks + free agents?

Or if the Spurs had Kawhi, you don’t think they would have 5-10 more wins? That would have SA at 52-57 wins. That’s a contender my man.

Not better than GS or HOU maybe, but like a said the 3rd or 4th best team in the league.

[DPG21920]

I just don’t get the idea that if you can put yourself in the 3rd or 4th best team convo that just because it’s not above GS or HOU that blowing it up is better? Makes no sense to me.

[baseline bum]

No it’s not. It’s GS world right now, that doesn’t mean you blow things up. Other than GS and maybe HOU, who would be better than SA with this LMA and replacing TP/Manu with White and lottery pick(s) and some other hand pick free agents?

Which makes it an even better time to blow it up. At least with a healthy Leonard you had a puncher's chance (like we saw last season). But there is no realistic way to have a puncher's chance replacing him. The only way I'd keep the team together is if the Spurs want to call Kawhi's bluff by not trading him and daring him to be a for a second season. Now that I think more about it, I think I'm on board with doing that since I don't think they'd trade Aldridge for value this summer.

[RD2191]

I just don’t get the idea that if you can put yourself in the 3rd or 4th best team convo that just because it’s not above GS or HOU that blowing it up is better? Makes no sense to me.

Why wait to blow it up though?