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  1. #26
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Pop pulled him out of the game for 30 seconds to tell him how he should handle that play in the future, then promptly put him back in. Spurs fans should be very happy with Hill's play, and the fact that he has the potential to be much better with experience.
    Yeah, I liked how Hill handled that situation. Pop pulled him out early in the third, got on him a little bit and then put him back in the game. Instead of playing scared or trying to not make mistakes, he responded by scoring seven points in the next one and a half minutes.

    Pop can be extremely hard on point guards so if Hill responds positively to Pop, that'd be an extremely good thing to see going forward.

    Good takes overall, lurker23.

    1. Whats the deal with Kurt Thomas? injured? old? jsut playing bad? Think about it, tollliver who was out a few games comes in ahead of him and bonner. What gives??
    It's tough to tell. I'm hoping it's injury but it could simply be old age. He's exactly the age where Horry started breaking down, so that could really be overlooked. Thankfully KT finally had a halfway decent game so maybe there's a little bit left in the tank.

    2. I kinda think benching Bowen might have lit a fire under his but. I kinda like to see a little more scoring threats out there. Bowen beem passing up alot of opportunites to shoot and tonight he didnt. Was the GG due to the fire or just happpened?
    That's a good question and one I was asking myself during the game. I came to the conclusion that the benching had to have some sort of an affect on Bowen. He seemed to be going through the motions to start the season but tonight he upped his intensity and for the first time this season he was one of the hardest working players on the floor.

    I don't think Bowen was intentionally dogging it to start the season but age combined with knowing it's a long regular season seemed to take away some of his fire. It was good to see a bit of that fire back tonight.

    3. Id like to get more input on tolliver. I didnt see whole game, but from what I saw, he hustles all the time and not scared to get physical.
    He's a unique player. He plays with a lot of energy but it doesn't seem to be reckless energy. Tolliver knows what he's doing on both ends.

    Offensively, he looks like he's a good passer for his size, good at setting screens, good at moving without the ball and he's athletic enough to finish above the rim. But that said, his bread and butter is his three-point shot. He has struggled to make the threes in preseason and now into the regular season. Whether or not he's a longterm fit will depend on whether or not he becomes a good enough shooter.

    On defense, he hustles and is quick enough to help out on the perimeter. He might be a player you can put on David West or Dirk Nowitzki ... we'll have to see how that plays out. I also want to see if he can guard bigger post players because that is something he has struggled with in the past.

    4. LAstly, What rumors have u heard about spurs going after a big man if any at all? FACT or rumor?
    I'm sure they will consider McDyess and make a pitch. As far as trades for a bigman, I think they'll wait closer to the trade deadline. The Spurs need to figure out if Tolliver is actually a rotational big, if Mahinmi can help this year and if Oberto and/or Thomas can turn back the clock. If Tolliver fails, I'm guessing Bonner will be given his last shot. If Tolliver doesn't fail, Bonner has already seen his last shot.

    Hey timvp, what do you think about Toll playing in the paint a bit more? I bet he would be more comfortable mixing it up closer to the rim.
    He doesn't really have the size to be a post player in the NBA. Even in college, he did most of his damage from about eight to 15 feet.

    Usually smaller bigmen make up for their lack of size by being either extremely strong or very athletic. I wouldn't classify Tolliver as either right now. Perhaps that could be developed but it's not very likely.

    And I have to disagree about him needing to make 3's to be in the NBA, his all-around game is stellar, probably only second to Tim in the bigman rotation right now.
    While I agree he has a surprisingly well rounded game, I do believe he has to hit that three-point shot to make it in the NBA. Like I said previously, he doesn't really have the tools to be an interior bigman. His ability to hit the three is what got him his contract with the Spurs and it'll be what determines his future, IMO.

    I'd like to see the Spurs put in some lobs for Hill alley-oop dunks. At times during the past few games I've seen the openings either off cutting from Duncan or where he would have been open coming in from the corner. Tonight a lob from Duncan wasn't really open because Robinson kept on Hill but it's been there other nights.
    On a related note, I'd like to see Hill go up with more power when he's near the rim. I've seen tapes of him in college finish with thunderous dunks. So far with the Spurs, it seems like he's going the Tony Parker route of using body contortions and angle shots off the glass. He has the size, athleticism and speed to just go up and try to finish with authority.

    Perhaps when Manu is healthy, that is something Hill can take from Manu's game. If Hill can take away his flip shots around the basket and replace with power, he could be a pretty damn good player on offense without needing much more grooming.

  2. #27
    Veteran milkyway21's Avatar
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    So do I, but he came really close to ing up the short amount of time he was given. He might not even get Copa time for the next couple of games.
    he sometimes reminds me of Hedo. look at how he's improved his game & making name in the NBA and won an award..
    if only he could be just 75% of that..

    this is the time to prove himself. Ian Mahinmi might be with the team sooner than we expected and he'll end up DNP or..

  3. #28
    All Your Best Lions #2!'s Avatar
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    Hill is a godly defensive player, I love his energy, and length, which enables him to rebound, defend, and get steals more than any other current Spurs guard.
    Don't forget his blocking abilities. The stat sheet gave him one, but he had another that was called as a foul, but looked pretty clean to me.(against Robinson and Chandler i think)

    Also, I love the versatility of this team when all of our pieces are healthy, especially when you realize how many combinations of great defenders you can come up with. Personally i think I'm most excited to see Hill and Manu playing the passing lanes on defense together, and having each other, as well as players like Tolliver and Ian, to take advantage on fast breaks. We could really have a team that Pop could do A LOT of things with.

  4. #29
    I has da power! johnnyblues's Avatar
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    tim, what are your thoughts on Farmer not included in the rotation last night? Even after Tolliver's bad shooting %?

  5. #30
    Team Duncan AnotherArgie's Avatar
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    Millsap is as small as Tolliver, and only a little bit heavier. With AT's at ude I think (hope) he'll be able to have a career in the NBA.

  6. #31
    Watching the collapse benefactor's Avatar
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    Man it is good to see Spurs basketball again. After 5 games of a headless chicken routine they came out and won in the way that we have won 4 rings...on the defensive end.

    I really like the mix of young players we have right now and the only hinderance they are faced with now is time. Almost all the plays where mistakes were made can be chalked up to inexperience. Mason, Hill and Tolliver are all great additions to this team and all three bring things to the table we have been needing. It was good to see Finley and Bowen step up as well and help shoulder some of the load. We will surely need more consistent play out of both of them to win the games we are supposed to win during this stretch.

    Regardless of who we play in these first 25 games or so, every win is a good win, because they are probably some of the most important regular season wins so far in the Duncan era.

  7. #32
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    Great read. And a win is a win. I had no clue the Knicks were so small. I knew they had Zach but after that I thought they had someone besides David Lee. No wonder our bigs had a field day out there. It would be nice to play the Knicks a few more times while manu and tony are out. I didnt get to watch most of the game. I didnt get there till halftime. But the first thing I noticed was how small the Knicks were. The second thing I noticed was we were taking advantage of it as well.

  8. #33
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    On a related note, I'd like to see Hill go up with more power when he's near the rim. I've seen tapes of him in college finish with thunderous dunks. So far with the Spurs, it seems like he's going the Tony Parker route of using body contortions and angle shots off the glass. He has the size, athleticism and speed to just go up and try to finish with authority.

    Perhaps when Manu is healthy, that is something Hill can take from Manu's game. If Hill can take away his flip shots around the basket and replace with power, he could be a pretty damn good player on offense without needing much more grooming.
    I appreciate the Game Thoughts and lurker23 comments. Intelligent discussion like this is what makes this board so unique and such a treat.

    Piggy-backing on your Hill comment, I often think the same thing about Ian Mahinmi. Every time I've watched him play I've thought he could and should dunk more often. He has a baseline spin move that he likes to finish with a reverser finesse lay up, using the rim as a shield. He should just dunk that sort of stuff. I too was struck with the same sentiment while watching Hill last night--finish with authority. If Hill and Mahinmi can be coached this way, it would add a new dynamic to the offense.

    Someone made a smart suggestion above. They said that the Spurs would be wise to draw up a play or two for Hill that ended in an alley-oop. Great idea from a coaching standpoint too. In other words, the staff says to Hill, "This is how we want you finishing plays."

  9. #34
    Ruffy RuffnReadyOzStyle's Avatar
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    Thanks for the excellent rundown as usual, LJ.

    Pre-season we both talked a lot about our hopes for Mason and he is exceeding them. Dude can play. Shooter, slasher, good decision-maker, committed defender - consummate Spur. Hill looks like a player too. Now we just need Mahinmi to show something, to weather the next month without too much damage, and who knows, maybe it's a late-run year? Either way it's great to see the youth shining through.

  10. #35
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    Fabricio Oberto
    http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/images/ba...ayers/3988.jpg
    25 minutes, six points, nine rebounds, three assists
    3-for-5 from the field, 0-for-3 at the line

    He also moved well without the ball on offense and found himself free around the rim. This was also the first game of the season where we saw the trademark chemistry between Duncan and Oberto on the offensive end. The Spurs could really use more games like this from Oberto and if he can continue to produce at this level, there’s no reason to believe he’ll lose his starting job at center.
    The interaction between Timmy and Oberto was back in vogue last night. Just adds another dynamic to the spurs offense when Oberto presents himself down low. Not only does he give opposing defenses some-one else to worry about, he also puts himself in the best positions to score with a close in lay-up.

  11. #36
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    The Spurs won because they played the Knicks. The only reason IMO.

  12. #37
    PRICELESS SPURS FAN polandprzem's Avatar
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    I don't know if to be happy about that game or not.

    spurs looked more like spurs this game mainly because Pop do not want to change nothing in his coaching. Whoever he have on the court he molds him into the system and the player must respond with his personal abilieties, but do what the system says.

    We could see it in taking Hill out of the game for a few seconds just tri tell him what to do next time. It reminded me Tony Parker few years back.
    Also Tim was where he was almost all his career and swings doing what the swings were doing when Tim is in his position. All those cuts to the basket in the baseline ... those Tim passes when he was doubled which lead to an open shooter on a three. Knicks were quick t rotate the first man so the spurs used an extra pass.
    In one of those Bowen executed and looked into Knicks bench to gave them a look I'm here, I'm still here

    Bowen responded to the situation - he was even trying drive to the basket - amazing.

    All in all we saw more agression and spurs looked like they would be in some kind of a mission. We are not seeing sleepwalking spurs team. We can't afford that now. Finley had a good game and he even was able to dun the ball! driving to the basket.
    We need more guys who can slash to the basket.

    As of the bigman - Oberto showed why he is in the S5, his IQ is great in a way where to be and what to do.
    Tolliver - he tried to be everywhere and he looked like he was not a part of a system. He created havoc. Good that he did not disruped the offense. he was very helpfull in that matter in a way that the spurs were not as predictable which could kill them.

    I'm waiting for that left head of Hill to be 100%

  13. #38
    PhillyGirl 1Parker1's Avatar
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    Good to know the Spurs can still count on good ol Mike D'Antoni to help them get some much needed W's.

  14. #39
    Old fogey Bender's Avatar
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    I knew bowen didn't start last night, but it didn't click until this morning that it was his first non-start as a Spur.

    I liked mason running point more than hill, but I know hill is still learning.

    That Mason/Tolliver backdoor was beautiful.

    Finley must have had a bowl of Wheaties before the game...

    At the very end when Bonner was all over Lee pointlessly, I thought the refs just decided to forget about the whistle...

  15. #40
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    What I noticed with Tolliver, and what puts him miles ahead of Bonner, is that he seems to at least get a basic if not strong grasp of the defensive system.

    Tolliver often helps on the pick and roll at the top and then crashes back into the lane to recover. Bonner never seemed to have gotten that part down in the same way.

    I'm not saying Tolliver is a great player but as other players have commented (DeMarr Johnson) you don't have to be the best defender to succeed in Pop's system. You just have to be at the right place at the right time and Tolliver has shown he can do that both physically and mentally.

    Bonner's mistakes most often are on defense. They both usually throw up bricks but at least Tolliver can continue to contribute. Bonner exists with the success or failure of his shot and when it doesn't go down he seems even more without a purpose.

    On another note, I wanted to see Farmer get a chance but Finley was playing well for his role and I don't think Farmer could have done better, especially when Finley took it to the basket and posted up a few times. It feels odd to give Finley positive comments but last night he did deserve it.

  16. #41
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    What I noticed with Tolliver, and what puts him miles ahead of Bonner, is that he seems to at least get a basic if not strong grasp of the defensive system.

    Tolliver often helps on the pick and roll at the top and then crashes back into the lane to recover. Bonner never seemed to have gotten that part down in the same way.

    I'm not saying Tolliver is a great player but as other players have commented (DeMarr Johnson) you don't have to be the best defender to succeed in Pop's system. You just have to be at the right place at the right time and Tolliver has shown he can do that both physically and mentally.

    Bonner's mistakes most often are on defense. They both usually throw up bricks but at least Tolliver can continue to contribute. Bonner exists with the success or failure of his shot and when it doesn't go down he seems even more without a purpose.

    On another note, I wanted to see Farmer get a chance but Finley was playing well for his role and I don't think Farmer could have done better, especially when Finley took it to the basket and posted up a few times. It feels odd to give Finley positive comments but last night he did deserve it.
    Tolliver's aggressive show on the screen and roll was great to see. Sometimes he was almost too aggressive, but did a good job recovering and seems to have a good sense of the court.

    Too bad for him, despite an inexplicable rep, I don't think he can shoot.

  17. #42
    keep asking questions George Gervin's Afro's Avatar
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    We finally won a home game! Yeah baby!

  18. #43
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    I give major props to Finley for stepping up and Bruce Bowen as well.

  19. #44
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    thanx for the great post timvp. the game showed some progress in the way hill and tolliver played. i hope mahinmi can contribute to the team once he returns. we'll need his height to guard bigs like bynum and gasol, amare, et al. if his defense provews adequate, plus the return of manu and tony, i'm excited about our chances this season. go spurs go!

  20. #45
    Remember Cherokee Parks The Truth #6's Avatar
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    Tolliver's aggressive show on the screen and roll was great to see. Sometimes he was almost too aggressive, but did a good job recovering and seems to have a good sense of the court.

    Too bad for him, despite an inexplicable rep, I don't think he can shoot.
    Sasha "the Machine" supposedly hit everything in practice for a full year before it finally translated onto the court. I suppose it's possible he just needs to get comfortable, though in some ways he seems too comfortable with his hair trigger. For some reason, Pop must give bench players the green light to just let it rip. Beno, Bonner, and Tolliver all had/have this trait, and all with little success.

    I wonder sometimes if Pop is correct to let his players just shoot if they're open and not worry about the results, or if offense is more of a mystery to him and he prefers to focus on coaching defense. I realize that our offense has become much more complicated over the years but I never get the same sense of players struggling to grasp the System when it comes to offense as it does to defense. I realize that jump shooting is a huge part of offense for all teams, but it always seems to be a huge issue with us over the years. I'm sure I'm wrong on this but that's what it seems at times.

  21. #46
    Give me 5 ! timaios's Avatar
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    I think Mason was a little lost with his shot because Tony was not in the game.
    He needs to adapt to that new situation.

    George Hill was great but he's not yet a point guard (1 assist). It will take time... and he has the time (the positive thing about Tony and Manu injuries).
    About Hill not dunking, remember : his left thumb is injured. I don't think Pop wants to watch the kid dunk now. Maybe in 3 or 4 games.

    I like the energy of Tolliver but why only 3-pointers ??? Why no 15 or 17ft ?

    Matt Bonner 13s vs Miami...
    Matt Bonner 28s vs New York...
    Matt is wasting his career on the Spurs, he needs to go... For him and for the Spurs ! He could be a very good player in another system.

    Great awakening of the old guys !
    With Michael Finley : all is good or all is bad. Tonight he was really good.
    Bruce Bowen with great efforts and scoring.
    Oberto, Thomas...
    Old cars need to warm up.

    And Tim is definitely a great player, he is doing everything on the court.

    Good focus of the team, good defense, good game.

  22. #47
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    Great read as usual, thanks timvp I didn't see the second half so it was good to have your feedback.

    Of what I've seen of the first half my highlights are :
    - Bonner 0 MIN ! I hope he will continue like that on the bench
    - I've liked the Oberto performance : good effort overall, good selection of shots and almost 10 reb, the performance of Tim is also linked to the good support he received from Oberto
    - To win we need a very good Bowen on the defensive side, tonight cherry on the cake he has helped the offense
    - Mason can help the team even with a very poor FG%
    - We have also won because Tim has compensated the TP lack of assits
    - and finally props to Hill for the good job

  23. #48
    Believe. Fingaroll44's Avatar
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    I The best arms since Dave.
    yea, i noticed that when he was @ the FT line. Not only are his arms long and strong his shoulders are unusually WIDE. That should serve him well when taking bumps in traffic and trying to get a shot off.

  24. #49
    Believe. Fingaroll44's Avatar
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    I saw the post-game interview w/ Hill too. I dont think he was joking when he said he was trying to think which play is the one where Pop makes the windmill motion w/ his arm. As we all know its not an actual play but Pop's sign language for push the ball upcourt aggressively.

    I think he was sincerely confused and thought to himself, "which play is that?". He said himself he is still easing his way into everything. We haven't seen the best of him yet because he is still thinking too much on the court. When he just starts playing freely i believe it will be a joy to watch.
    Last edited by Fingaroll44; 11-12-2008 at 11:43 AM.

  25. #50
    Chopper Ed Helicopter Jones's Avatar
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    Nice analysis!



    I was happy the Spurs won. I know I said I thought the Spurs would go something like 6-9 without Parker and Ginobili...but in reality I wasn't sure when I'd see the next Spurs win. This game last night gave me hope, however, that the crew we have can hold down the fort until the big 2 return.

    We're such a work in process right now that I'm guessing by May this team will have a totally different dynamic to it than it did to open the season. If the Spurs can pull this season together and finish strong it will be a true testament to Pop's coaching ability.

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