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  1. #101
    BUSsell Will Spur-Addict's Avatar
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    Tim Thomas believes himself to be a SF, but Moore is a very interesting player. Has a decent stroke on offense, moves pretty well without the ball and can finish at the rim. Would give us a long deterant at the rim on defense and a lively rebounder.
    It really would, but i'm not sure how able he'd be to defend the primary post players on our primary obstacle. Can he muscle up with Pau or Bynum? Yes he can finish and yes he has a decent shot. He is mobile as well.

  2. #102
    Ghost of Mr. K SenorSpur's Avatar
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    Tim Thomas believes himself to be a SF, but Moore is a very interesting player. Has a decent stroke on offense, moves pretty well without the ball and can finish at the rim. Would give us a long deterant at the rim on defense and a lively rebounder.
    Tim Thomas is a dog with fleas. Do not consider him as a potential target - under any cir stances.

  3. #103
    BUSsell Will Spur-Addict's Avatar
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    I say Charlie V only because he is 6-11 and can shoot, play the 3 or 4 and he would give us good size. The only team that can beat us in a 7 game is La and I think he would be a perfect matchup with Gasol.

    He can also shoot the 3 so we could run our normal sets with him in. Wilcox isnt a shooter, but I think Pops could light a fire under his ass and get some good run out of him. He has never been with a winning team and if Im not mistaken this is a contract year for him so he may wanna give it all to get another payday.

    Moore is thin, but tuff as nails, and he has a big heart! He can see he wants to win, and I think that fire would be great for our team, plus he has been with the team before.

    Ronnie T, I love his energy and shot blocking, and he has a nice 12ft jumper, hes a tuff guy and the fact the Lakers didnt match may give him that added chip on the shoulder when we face them.

    Other guys the Spur could consider would be Sheldon Williams....he has no future in Sac
    Ronnie is too small.

    We would need Charlie to defend as well. As versatile as he is on O, can he get a few stops for us? I don't know. But he definetly would cause havoc on the other end. He could get their bigs in foul trouble as long as he doesn't hang around the arc twenty four seven. That would be a hard trade to pull off though.

    Wilcox is looking for the money, but if he leaves next year so what. Buy then maybe Ian will be ready.

  4. #104
    George Hill: 2-Guard NewJerSpur's Avatar
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    It really would, but i'm not sure how able he'd be to defend the primary post players on our primary obstacle. Can he muscle up with Pau or Bynum? Yes he can finish and yes he has a decent shot. He is mobile as well.
    He may give up some ground but his length can at least bother the shots of either of those two. KT, (who is the only big that gives Duncan any help on defense) gives the effort but is just too slow and winds up fouling guys like Gasol when he can't stay in front of them. Moore my get backed down a bit but he stays in plays because of wingspan and mobility.

  5. #105
    George Hill: 2-Guard NewJerSpur's Avatar
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    Tim Thomas is a dog with fleas. Do not consider him as a potential target - under any cir stances.
    He LIVES behind the arc and has no semblance of a game in the post. Terrible for a guy his size.

    EDIT: But that's just how D'Antoni likes 'em.

  6. #106
    BUSsell Will Spur-Addict's Avatar
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    He may give up some ground but his length can at least bother the shots of either of those two. KT, (who is the only big that gives Duncan any help on defense) gives the effort but is just too slow and winds up fouling guys like Gasol when he can't stay in front of them. Moore my get backed down a bit but he stays in plays because of wingspan and mobility.
    All of this is true. I of course would prefer the ideal front court player but if it comes to it, settling is what we may have to do. As a result of settling you get an imperfect fit to your needs. But, an upgrade is preferred if nothing else.

  7. #107
    George Hill: 2-Guard NewJerSpur's Avatar
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    All of this is true. I of course would prefer the ideal front court player but if it comes to it, settling is what we may have to do. As a result of settling you get an imperfect fit to your needs. But, an upgrade is preferred if nothing else.
    Yeah. I'm not saying Moore would necessarily be a gem of a move if this were the offseason, but given our needs and the limited options out there I think this would be one of the better, more REALISTIC moves that Texas 2 Step mentioned could be made.

  8. #108
    BUSsell Will Spur-Addict's Avatar
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    Yeah. I'm not saying Moore would necessarily be a gem of a move if this were the offseason, but given our needs and the limited options out there I think this would be one of the better, more REALISTIC moves that Texas 2 Step mentioned could be made.
    "Shoot for the moon and land in the stars"


  9. #109
    George Hill: 2-Guard NewJerSpur's Avatar
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  10. #110
    Veteran Manufan909's Avatar
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    since mahinmi already missed so much time already, i doubt he was ever going to get minutes in the playoffs. the bad thing is that mahinmi won't even get to play some regular season games this year, which would have prepared him for next year. next season, mahinmi will have to take time to develop and get going which might leave him out of the playoff rotation again. hopefully he comes back from the surgery 100% and more wiser about his physical limitations.
    He should be ahead of the curve, since he's trained so much with the Spurs, and the Toros run alot of Spurs play, IIRC p said that a couple times.

    Am I the only one who finds it curious that someone who's season is over was running 2-2 drills? I'll be sure to quote myself if Pop plays him 5 or less games after the trade deadline.

    EDIT: And Wilcox would be my pick for the FO to target. Who's team is he on, at what's his contract?
    Last edited by Manufan909; 01-27-2009 at 01:13 AM.

  11. #111
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    Wilcox helps offensively, since he runs the floor very well, and finishes very well at the rim..but defensively and on the boards? not so much..

    he's an expiring contract getting paid 6.75 mil this season from OKC..it's possible since we have a relationship with Presti, but it's a nice asset for them..

  12. #112
    Veteran Manufan909's Avatar
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    Wilcox helps offensively, since he runs the floor very well, and finishes very well at the rim..but defensively and on the boards? not so much..

    he's an expiring contract getting paid 6.75 mil this season from OKC..it's possible since we have a relationship with Presti, but it's a nice asset for them..
    Thanks holmes!!!

    I think he could instantly get decent minutes, and that Pop could improve his D mindset if the Spurs somehow traded for him, but I can't think of a trade they'd like... are they weak at any position, or are they just young at all of them(thus they might want to just keep all the players so they could all mature together)?

  13. #113
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    I heard a lot about what the Spurs should have done in training camp and earlier.

    What do you think they should do now?
    http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...2&postcount=34

    That was my suggestion...

    It's starting to look more and more practical from my POV. The Spurs could offer Dynamo Moscow up to 500K US$ as a buyout, to get Javtokas released before the end of their season, without it counting towards the salary cap. Dynamo apparently need the money.

    http://majorleaguejerk.com/2008/12/1...jannero-pargo/

    Jannero Pargo (?) - Pargo’s Russian team is reportedly having a very difficult time making payroll right now;
    and

    http://dimemag.com/2009/01/jannero-pargo-to-olympiakos/

    apparently the government has decided to withdraw funding that was assigned to the clubs. Dynamo Moscow, one of the most affected teams, has seen Arriel McDonald, Darjus Lavrinovic, Hollis Price and now Pargo leave.
    Jannero Pargo was playing for Dynamo Moscow...He left because they couldn't pay him...I wonder if Javtokas is getting paid these days? I don't know how much money Javtokas would want at this point, but the LLE would have to look pretty good (4.2 Million for the remainder of this season and the next, if we set up the contract right); , even the vet min might be enough.

    He's big (a real 7 footer), he's strong, and he'd be the most athletic big on the roster; possibly even more of an athlete than a healthy Mahinmi. Remember, he used to be able to dunk on a 12ft rim...

  14. #114
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    http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...2&postcount=34

    That was my suggestion...

    It's starting to look more and more practical from my POV. The Spurs could offer Dynamo Moscow up to 500K US$ as a buyout, to get Javtokas released before the end of their season, without it counting towards the salary cap. Dynamo apparently need the money.

    http://majorleaguejerk.com/2008/12/1...jannero-pargo/



    and

    http://dimemag.com/2009/01/jannero-pargo-to-olympiakos/



    Jannero Pargo was playing for Dynamo Moscow...He left because they couldn't pay him...I wonder if Javtokas is getting paid these days? I don't know how much money Javtokas would want at this point, but the LLE would have to look pretty good (4.2 Million for the remainder of this season and the next, if we set up the contract right); , even the vet min might be enough.

    He's big (a real 7 footer), he's strong, and he'd be the most athletic big on the roster; possibly even more of an athlete than a healthy Mahinmi. Remember, he used to be able to dunk on a 12ft rim...
    I agree...
    as for now, he's the best available option and gives just what we need on the front line.
    A big body, capable of rebounding, block shots and run the floor...like an EWlson type.
    You just have to hope that, in case, he misses less rotations than Elson did...
    IOne thing for sure is that his body is stronger!
    In the Dinamo Moskow situation is that bad, that would be an ideal situation for them too...they don't have to pay their player and they receive also 500,00 cash...
    By the way : this is one of the limited (and weird) situations where a buy-out of 500,00 could effectively work...

  15. #115
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    i doubt holt will be spending anything atm

    doesnt he own caterpillar heavy machinery vehicles?

    i was watching the news they are laying off 20000 staff worldwide...
    Last edited by TDMVPDPOY; 01-27-2009 at 05:34 AM.

  16. #116
    real fans go bald mountainballer's Avatar
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    i doubt holt will be spending anything atm

    doesnt he own caterpillar heavy machinery vehicles?

    i was watching the news they are laying off 20000 staff worldwide...
    he's something like the grandson of the Caterpillar founder, but he doesn't own caterpillar inc.
    he is the CEO of HOLT CAT, the largest Caterpillar dealership in the states.
    (but of course he also will be affected by the worldwide crisis)

  17. #117
    Spurs in Oz mattyc's Avatar
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    Terrible news for the guy. I really want things to work out for him.

    I don't think the sky is falling in terms of signing a big man though.

  18. #118
    Can't Start Threads Kill_Bill_Pana's Avatar
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    http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...2&postcount=34

    That was my suggestion...

    It's starting to look more and more practical from my POV. The Spurs could offer Dynamo Moscow up to 500K US$ as a buyout, to get Javtokas released before the end of their season, without it counting towards the salary cap. Dynamo apparently need the money.

    http://majorleaguejerk.com/2008/12/1...jannero-pargo/



    and

    http://dimemag.com/2009/01/jannero-pargo-to-olympiakos/



    Jannero Pargo was playing for Dynamo Moscow...He left because they couldn't pay him...I wonder if Javtokas is getting paid these days? I don't know how much money Javtokas would want at this point, but the LLE would have to look pretty good (4.2 Million for the remainder of this season and the next, if we set up the contract right); , even the vet min might be enough.

    He's big (a real 7 footer), he's strong, and he'd be the most athletic big on the roster; possibly even more of an athlete than a healthy Mahinmi. Remember, he used to be able to dunk on a 12ft rim...
    This is not true at all. How many times this have to be explained? They were offered big buyout of cash by Olympiacos and Pargo wanted in a Euroleague club. It was nothing to do with not being able to pay him. NOTHING they were even AHEAD of schedule in making his payments as reported by Stein of ESPN.

    Their is no way Spurs can get Javtokas for a small 500,000 us dollars. Olympiacos was paying like 3 million euros to get Pargo from them.

    But yes Spurs should get Javtokas this summer. i do not understand why they have no interest in him. he is big and very strong. He is excellent finisher, good defense, good at protect paint and rim, good shot blocker, solid in rebounding. He is athletic freak of nature even by NBA level.

    His offense is even OK. Efficient player and he is not so bad in offense and shooting. He is let us say certainly better offensive player than Oberto I think. He is having excellent season this year. This guy is not going to be anything special or great in NBA but he is for sure better than Spurs crap centers of Bonner, Thomas, Oberto.

  19. #119
    Can't Start Threads Kill_Bill_Pana's Avatar
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    I agree...
    as for now, he's the best available option and gives just what we need on the front line.
    A big body, capable of rebounding, block shots and run the floor...like an EWlson type.
    You just have to hope that, in case, he misses less rotations than Elson did...
    IOne thing for sure is that his body is stronger!
    In the Dinamo Moskow situation is that bad, that would be an ideal situation for them too...they don't have to pay their player and they receive also 500,00 cash...
    By the way : this is one of the limited (and weird) situations where a buy-out of 500,00 could effectively work...
    Spurs should get javtokas but do not believe all this crap about Dynamo financial issues. GM of team even showed where every player gets all his money on time and will for whole year and all the players said this was true. Pargo has said it was just made up by US press.

    But yes Javtokas could help Spurs.

  20. #120
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    http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...2&postcount=34

    That was my suggestion...

    It's starting to look more and more practical from my POV. The Spurs could offer Dynamo Moscow up to 500K US$ as a buyout, to get Javtokas released before the end of their season, without it counting towards the salary cap. Dynamo apparently need the money.

    http://majorleaguejerk.com/2008/12/1...jannero-pargo/



    and

    http://dimemag.com/2009/01/jannero-pargo-to-olympiakos/



    Jannero Pargo was playing for Dynamo Moscow...He left because they couldn't pay him...I wonder if Javtokas is getting paid these days? I don't know how much money Javtokas would want at this point, but the LLE would have to look pretty good (4.2 Million for the remainder of this season and the next, if we set up the contract right); , even the vet min might be enough.

    He's big (a real 7 footer), he's strong, and he'd be the most athletic big on the roster; possibly even more of an athlete than a healthy Mahinmi. Remember, he used to be able to dunk on a 12ft rim...
    I've checked into this, and just to be clear, Pargo has received payments, they were just routinely late--months late at some points. I'm not sure if that's the case with Javtokas. I imagine that it is. I'm not sure how the Russian league is set up--there is not a handy English language Russian League CBA FAQ on the net. But one would imagine that any Dynamo player could legally seek to have their contract voided after so many missed payments. The problem with Javtokas--the reason I'd be surprised to see the Spurs go that direction--is that he doesn't know the Spurs system and he's never played in the NBA. To bring someone like that in midseason...

  21. #121
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Too bad that Mahinmi is out for the season. Although hope was waning, it would have been nice to see what he could do at some point this season. It was a long shot that he'd be able to help much but it would have been great if he could step in and provide the shotblocking and athleticism the Spurs are lacking.

    Now Mahinmi just needs to keep working on his body and concentrate on adding weight. He's still skinny, especially in his legs. Hit the weights until summer league and then hopefully have a better summer league showing this year than last year.

  22. #122
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    What the did I say in pre-season??????

    SIGN DARRYL WATKINS. WE NEED INTERIOR DEFENSE. WE NEED A RIM PROTECTOR

    ING IDIOT SPURS FO. Everyone in here is like oh no we don't need a rim protector like Watkins we've got Ian Mahinmi. Watkins is too raw. It was obvious we need another big man to battle teams like the Lakers instead of Tolliver. I didn't want Tolliver at all Farmer, Watkins and Hairston were all above him in my list.

    The Spurs really dropped the ball on this one as far as the type of player they needed to sign in the off season. You're not going to get another Robert Horry it was a complete waste of time trying to find a player like that. You can't teach anyone what Robert Horry did.

    I'm pretty sure SenorSpur was also another poster that said a player like Watkins would be a bigger need for the team. I don't remember the other posters that thought Watkins was a good idea as there wasn't many. Even Timvp wasn't really against Tolliver.
    This is one of the weirder rants I have seen. I don't think many people were against the idea of adding interior defense. Most Spurs fans have been pining for athleticism and interior defense from a center since David Robinson retired.

    That said, Darryl Watkins was not the answer. As far as I know, he's not doing much in China. And other NBA teams aren't exactly beating down his door. Watkins at this point isn't an NBA player.

    Tolliver is much closer to being an NBA player and that fact alone makes him a better signing than Watkins. You don't sign a player based on need if that player can't play on this level. That makes no sense.

    If Tolliver could hit shots, he'd probably still be with the team. His skillset wasn't what got him cut ... it was the fact that he shot about 12% from the field.

    And yeah, if there is an athletic shotblocker out there that we are overlooking, hopefully Ice009 points him out. It's easy to want a certain skillset but actually finding an available NBA level player with that skillset is the challenge.

  23. #123
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    I wonder if the doctor in LA would have said that a surgery was needed if he had seen Ian in August.
    Have Spurs' medical staff do a wrong diagnostic back in August or is it just some
    unexpected complications?
    Considering that Mahinmi was practicing with the team even after he consulted with the doctor in LA, I doubt that surgery was obvious to anyone. If the LA doctor saw it and found something serious the Spurs missed, Mahinmi would have been shut down right away. Apparently, he tried to play through it but kept experiencing pain so they opted for surgery.

    I don't know of many ankle injuries that didn't include a serious rupture that requires the player to miss six months. If there was no major structural damage, the usual protocol is rest and rehabilitation. Surgery on a sprained ankle is rare.


    Last year, Ginobili's and Parker's ankle injuries haven't been well managed so questions arise...
    What could the Spurs have done with Ginobili? They wanted him to have offseason surgery but he instead played for Argentina first and then had the surgery. Parker's is a bit more questionable but it appeared as if he returned the the floor too quickly the first time and the ankle didn't respond. This year he returned quickly and the ankle responded. It's tough to say how an ankle will react until the player plays.

    It's not like the Spurs had doctors trying to force Parker to play through a broken finger . . .

  24. #124
    Believe. Illusionarist's Avatar
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    Is Manhinmi so talented and such a good player? I mean there is so much noise about him. Is he a nice big? I haven't seen him play. Know when he was drafted?

  25. #125
    Spur Forever urunobili's Avatar
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    That said, Darryl Watkins was not the answer. As far as I know, he's not doing much in China. And other NBA teams aren't exactly beating down his door. Watkins at this point isn't an NBA player.

    Tolliver is much closer to being an NBA player and that fact alone makes him a better signing than Watkins. You don't sign a player based on need if that player can't play on this level. That makes no sense.
    Are you kidding on this one?

    Watkins was playing VERY solid ball every time he got some minutes with us in the pre season... IMO Tolliver over him was a mistake we had already a shooting big on the roster...

    What is making you think (and you sound VERY sure) that Watkins is not ready to play in the NBA today? From what i was able to see during preseason... he should have made it and he actually was VERY close to getting the chance....

    Watkins>>>>>>Oberto

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