General Trades Discussion

[Chinook]

So the Clips had to pay the Bucks a first so they would take Dudley's contract off their hands. I wondering if the people here would have been willing to do a Dudley/first for Ayres/Daye swap.

On one hand, the Spurs would be adding 2015 salary, which isn't a good thing at all. But on the other hand, that 2017 Clips pick is likely to be decent, since that team is salary locked despite having some major flaws. I could see the being a seventh-seed type of team by then. Also, Dudley would probably gain his value back in the Spurs' system, enough so that he would either exercise his ETO next June or be very tradeable. Finally, Dudley would provide some decent depth at small-forward, which is still a weak spot on the team, and would also allow for potential Beli deals if the Spurs decided to go in that direction.

I'd've considered it, honestly. I see little downside and a lot of potential upside.

[Seventyniner]

So the Clips had to pay the Bucks a first so they would take Dudley's contract off their hands. I wondering if the people here would have been willing to do a Dudley/first for Ayres/Daye swap.

On one hand, the Spurs would be adding 2015 salary, which isn't a good thing at all. But on the other hand, that 2017 Clips pick is likely to be decent, since that team is salary locked despite having some major flaws. I could see the being a seventh-seed type of team by then. Also, Dudley would probably gain his value back in the Spurs' system, enough so that he would either exercise his ETO next June or be very tradeable. Finally, Dudley would provide some decent depth at small-forward, which is still a weak spot on the team, and would also allow for potential Beli deals if the Spurs decided to go in that direction.

I'd've considered it, honestly. I see little downside and a lot of potential upside.

I take it that it would be a salary dump on the part of the Bucks. Why would they give up the pick? They seem to be in the asset-ac ulating mode like other tankers and the Ayers/Daye pu pu platter isn't nearly enticing enough to lose the pick.

It would be good for the Spurs, both in getting a supposedly capable backup SF and that the Spurs are extraordinarily good with late first-round picks. It comes with the opportunity cost of not being able to package Beli along with Ayers and Daye for a bigger salary. I don't see the Spurs trading Beli unless it's a slam dunk, though.

[Chinook]

I take it that it would be a salary dump on the part of the Bucks. Why would they give up the pick? They seem to be in the asset-ac ulating mode like other tankers and the Ayers/Daye pu pu platter isn't nearly enticing enough to lose the pick.

It would be good for the Spurs, both in getting a supposedly capable backup SF and that the Spurs are extraordinarily good with late first-round picks. It comes with the opportunity cost of not being able to package Beli along with Ayers and Daye for a bigger salary. I don't see the Spurs trading Beli unless it's a slam dunk, though.

The idea was an alternate-reality trade with LA rather than a possible trade with Milwaukee.

[Seventyniner]

The idea was an alternate-reality trade with LA rather than a possible trade with Milwaukee.

I see. I wonder if the Clips, or even the Spurs, are the type of team who would never trade with a rival when both teams have championship aspirations.

[Chinook]

I see. I wonder if the Clips, or even the Spurs, are the type of team who would never trade with a rival when both teams have championship aspirations.

I was mentioning in the NBA Forum that there seemed to be much better candidates out there for this trade than the Bucks. Some team would have not had to send back any salary. Some had such poor wing depth that they may not have required a first-round pick back. It's just very strange all around that Los Angeles did THIS deal, unless insurance would indeed cover Delfino's entire salary.

[Seventyniner]

I was mentioning in the NBA Forum that there seemed to be much better candidates out there for this trade than the Bucks. Some team would have not had to send back any salary. Some had such poor wing depth that they may not have required a first-round pick back. It's just very strange all around that Los Angeles did THIS deal, unless insurance would indeed cover Delfino's entire salary.

Is injury insurance negotiated on an individual basis? I saw a graphic on ESPN just after the Paul George injury saying that his contact was only 50% insured, and I wondered if that was league standard.

[Chinook]

Is injury insurance negotiated on an individual basis? I saw a graphic on ESPN just after the Paul George injury saying that his contact was only 50% insured, and I wondered if that was league standard.

Insurance is a league thing. From what I recall, the insurer gets a 41-game deductible before they start paying. So either they will pay all of the remaining George salary, or they'll end up only paying a quarter of it (half of 41 games worth). Delfino should have already passed his deductible phase, so if he's insured, the insurer will pay LA immediately (whether that's all or half).

However, ElNono points out that Mikwaukee signed Delfino when he was already injured. So he may not be insured at all.

[Seventyniner]

Insurance is a league thing. From what I recall, the insurer gets a 41-game deductible before they start paying. So either they will pay all of the remaining George salary, or they'll end up only paying a quarter of it (half of 41 games worth). Delfino should have already passed his deductible phase, so if he's insured, the insurer will pay LA immediately (whether that's all or half).

However, ElNono points out that Mikwaukee signed Delfino when he was already injured. So he may not be insured at all.

I guess Ballmer isn't Prokhorov West after all.

[Chinook]

I guess Ballmer isn't Prokhorov West after all.

We don't know. The Clips are hard-capped this season, so he couldn't spend more if he wanted to.

[Seventyniner]

We don't know. The Clips are hard-capped this season, so he couldn't spend more if he wanted to.

But to perhaps trade a 1st for insurance money...that's a non-cap decision.

[Chinook]

How would folks feel about this trade idea:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=pyxq4nr

The deal is Martin and Dieng for Ayres, Beli, a first-rounder and maybe the rights to a non-LJC or Bertans prospect.

Seems far-fetched, because Minny is giving better players, including Dieng, who looks like a great center prospect. But the Spurs would be eating more than $20 Million over the next three years, and one or two assets should be more than enough to off-set the talent disparity in light of that.

If the Wolves insist, then Turiaf could be subs uted for Dieng. But in that case, Daye would have to be added, and I wouldn't want the team to give up a pick. Such a deal essentially closes the cap-space route next summer, so the team can't afford to give up picks for nothing.

[Baam]

Would do it even without Dieng.

[jyra]

Dieng is playing really well at the World Cup, averaging over 20/10. He just led Senegal to a historic win over Croatia.

[Chinook]

Yeah. Dieng isn't going anywhere, although he probably should, because Minny will find some way to ruin his career.

[Richie]

How would folks feel about this trade idea:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=pyxq4nr

The deal is Martin and Dieng for Ayres, Beli, a first-rounder and maybe the rights to a non-LJC or Bertans prospect.

Seems far-fetched, because Minny is giving better players, including Dieng, who looks like a great center prospect. But the Spurs would be eating more than $20 Million over the next three years, and one or two assets should be more than enough to off-set the talent disparity in light of that.

If the Wolves insist, then Turiaf could be subs uted for Dieng. But in that case, Daye would have to be added, and I wouldn't want the team to give up a pick. Such a deal essentially closes the cap-space route next summer, so the team can't afford to give up picks for nothing.

No way Minni gives up Dieng to dump Martin, even with a first round pick added on.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i'm not a huge martin fan, but scoring dieng would be epic.

[elemento]

How would folks feel about this trade idea:

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=pyxq4nr

The deal is Martin and Dieng for Ayres, Beli, a first-rounder and maybe the rights to a non-LJC or Bertans prospect.

Seems far-fetched, because Minny is giving better players, including Dieng, who looks like a great center prospect. But the Spurs would be eating more than $20 Million over the next three years, and one or two assets should be more than enough to off-set the talent disparity in light of that.

If the Wolves insist, then Turiaf could be subs uted for Dieng. But in that case, Daye would have to be added, and I wouldn't want the team to give up a pick. Such a deal essentially closes the cap-space route next summer, so the team can't afford to give up picks for nothing.

Easily, but Minny would never add Dieng. In the last 20 games of the season, he started plenty of games and he was averaging 12 ppg / 11 rpg @ 57%TS as a rookie.

He is a very good prospect. I don't see Minny letting him go. Now that Love is gone, I am sure that they'd rather trade Pekovic instead of Dieng.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Eric Bledsoe isn't drawing near as much buzz as i think he should. I think he would make an interesting addition for the Spurs.

[FlAVaK]

Eric Bledsoe isn't drawing near as much buzz as i think he should. I think he would make an interesting addition for the Spurs.

Kind of a fail post...

AP Source: Suns, Bledsoe making progress in talks

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Kind of a fail post...

AP Source: Suns, Bledsoe making progress in talks

not at all. I'm saying i think Bledsoe shoulda been one of the hottest free agents this summer. He's barely made a blip on the radar, his own team seems to hardly want him back. If he can have a healthy season, all the talking heads will be hyping how much of a bargain he is.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

and speaking of suns trade possibilities. the spurs missed out on Bogdan Bogdanovic. If a Baynes sign and trade deal goes down, i'd like to see it include the rights to Bogdan.

[Mel_13]

not at all. I'm saying i think Bledsoe shoulda been one of the hottest free agents this summer. He's barely made a blip on the radar, his own team seems to hardly want him back. If he can have a healthy season, all the talking heads will be hyping how much of a bargain he is.

The Suns offered him 4yrs/48M, so they clearly want him back. He turned it down and made it known that he's seeking the max. That's why he attracted little interest from the rest of the league.

It's also why he makes no sense as a trade target for the Spurs. They're not making Bledsoe the highest paid player on the team and they're not giving up the assets that they'd be required to part with to make a trade work.

and speaking of suns trade possibilities. the spurs missed out on Bogdan Bogdanovic. If a Baynes sign and trade deal goes down, i'd like to see it include the rights to Bogdan.

No way that Baynes brings back the rights to a first round pick in a S&T. At best, they get the sort of return they got for Nando, a small TE and a protected second round pick or a fringe NBA player.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i think Baynes value now is higher than De Colo's value at the time of the Daye trade. De Colo was a little younger, with about the same amount of faith from Pop, but not the time under the system and ring that Baynes has. So Baynes is worth something like a 1st round, young guy with potential and question marks. Bogdan is a 1st round young guy with potential, who isn't nba ready. Or at least, isn't Suns basketball ready.

i think a sign and trade Baynes deal for Bogdan is more plausible than you realize.

[Mel_13]

Not at all plausible. Baynes is a fringe NBA player himself, thus his current dilemma.

[Chinook]

How would folks feel about trying to acquire one of New York's bad contracts for a pick (2018 or swap in 2015)? As far as I can see, the only "bad" contracts they have on the books after this season are Calderon and Smith. Both deals are for about the same APY, though Jose's has an extra year pinned on. Both could be acquired for only Beli's and Ayres' contracts. They idea behind picking up either would be that the Spurs sell their potential cap space now instead of gambling next summer. They would still have enough room to offer a very good contract (starting at more than $10 Million probably), just not a max deal. Either deal would expire by the next cap window in 2017, so neither affects that plan.

I think I'd definitely do a the trade for Calderon and a lottery-protected first-swap. Jose has his problems, but he's a great shooter and a decent distributor. He's a bigish PG, so he could probably play the two in Beli's place while really being able to take some of the load off Manu (which Beli was projected to do but really couldn't). He'd also provide the depth at PG the team needs. He could start for Parker when Tony rests, which would allow the Spurs to sub in Anderson as the backup three and give Manu his current spot back. There'd be no need for Cotton, either.

The first problem I see is that he, Mills/Joseph and Manu would be undersized on the perimeter. But them coming off the bench would hopefully mitigate that. And Calderon and Ellis made it work last season for Dallas. Manu would be tasked with defending small-forwards, though. While he's capable or doing it, I don't know if it's something Pop would want him doing night in and night out. The bigger problem is that I'm not sure Jackson wants to trade Calderon, and I am even less sure that he'd be willing to send Jose to the Spurs for anything other than a lopsided offer in their favor. While the old Knick brass would probably attach a pick to Calderon in a heartbeat, I feel that Phil is too smart to dump a pick that'll likely be in the teens just for the chance to have more money in free agency. I could accept a trade in which NY dumped in a smaller asset than a first (Early, seconds or whatever they can get for redirecting Shumpert).

Not much to say on a Smith trade. I'd need the swap to want to make that trade. I also don't see him being dealt, as his deal expires in 2016 when all the good FAs are going to be available. Obviously, if Smith played up to his potential and kept his head on straight, he'd actually be a strong fit in SA. But that ship has sailed at this point, and I think it would be likelier for JR to get DNPs. In short, I just don't see it happening.

tl;dr: The underlined part is what's important. The rest is just pros and cons.