General Trades Discussion

[TD 21]

Yup, that’s my logic.

The bigger peice here is the trajectory of the Orlando franchise. Fournier is one of the last hold over parts of their first attempted and failed rebuild effort around Vuc, Fornier, Peyton, Oledepo, and Harris. Three of those dudes are gone and Vuc is expiring next year.

And, Murray’s star has never been higher. Dude will be on one of the all-defense teams this year, and if you redraft 2016 class today he’s a top 8 selection.

Murray would be a great peice of their next rebuild attempt. He’d go with Gordon, Issac, and solid Top 5 pick (which btw might be Doncic, a significantly better and younger version of Fournier).

Even if I bought Murray over 18, I certainly wouldn't buy also moving down 14 spots in the 2nd.

His star has never been higher and top 8 based on what? The jury is still out on a lot of these players. Top 15-20 is more reasonable.

[CGD]

Even if I bought Murray over 18, I certainly wouldn't buy also moving down 14 spots in the 2nd.

His star has never been higher and top 8 based on what? The jury is still out on a lot of these players. Top 15-20 is more reasonable.

The trade swap for second rounders isnt a sticking point. The logic was to account for the 25-26m long term savings to ORL (which I noted in an earlier post). We’re actually entering a time when Pau starts to look more like a trade asset/expiring contract.

Re Murray, yeah, probably early to fully assesses that class, but top 10 is not unreasonable. For his good body of work to date which could likely include being second team all defense, I think 15-20 is too low. Take a look at that class: https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_2016.html

In the 12-30 range, who is better at this point? Maybe if you squint hard LaVert, Siamam, or Zizic?

Then look at 1-11. Definitely some studs at the top, but do we think he’s that far off from Bender, Chriss, Dunn, or even Peoltl?

[TD 21]

The trade swap for second rounders isnt a sticking point. The logic was to account for the 25-26m long term savings to ORL (which I noted in an earlier post). We’re actually entering a time when Pau starts to look more like a trade asset/expiring contract.

Re Murray, yeah, probably early to fully assesses that class, but top 10 is not unreasonable. For his good body of work to date which could likely include being second team all defense, I think 15-20 is too low. Take a look at that class: https://www.basketball-reference.com.../NBA_2016.html

In the 12-30 range, who is better at this point? Maybe if you squint hard LaVert, Siamam, or Zizic?

Then look at 1-11. Definitely some studs at the top, but do we think he’s that far off from Bender, Chriss, Dunn, or even Peoltl?

It could be. When I said as much about the Gasol contract in my proposal, you seemed to think that wasn't valid.

If you want to say Murray been top 10 so far from the '16 class, maybe. But as I said, the jury is still out on a number of players. For example, you can say Murray has been better than top 10 picks Bender, Chriss and Maker, but that doesn't mean those teams would trade them for him. They probably still view them as better prospects.

[CGD]

It could be. When I said as much about the Gasol contract in my proposal, you seemed to think that wasn't valid.

If you want to say Murray been top 10 so far from the '16 class, maybe. But as I said, the jury is still out on a number of players. For example, you can say Murray has been better than top 10 picks Bender, Chriss and Maker, but that doesn't mean those teams would trade them for him. They probably still view them as better prospects.

I don’t recall/see your part of the exchange about the Gasol piece; I probably missed it somewhere.

Anyway, I think the big picture here is that if the Spurs land Fultz in a Leonard deal, they can afford to be opportunistic with trading Murray for something decent. I like the idea of Covington being the new 3/D type on a good deal, so ideally they can use some combo of Murray/18/Pau’s quasi expiring to upgrade further on the wing.

Fournier was just an idea, but I’m sure others fit the mold.

[TD 21]

I don’t recall/see your part of the exchange about the Gasol piece; I probably missed it somewhere.

Anyway, I think the big picture here is that if the Spurs land Fultz in a Leonard deal, they can afford to be opportunistic with trading Murray for something decent. I like the idea of Covington being the new 3/D type on a good deal, so ideally they can use some combo of Murray/18/Pau’s quasi expiring to upgrade further on the wing.

Fournier was just an idea, but I’m sure others fit the mold.

Draft picks and financial flexibility are gold, especially for a re-building team and they don't have enough of either (they more so have quan y than quality of picks). Presuming they couldn't trade Gasol and paid him in full on a buyout (which is unlikely since this would be mutually beneficial), they'd save $27.5M.

Yeah, I've been beating that drum recently.

If they want to pull a Pacers and go the re-load more so than re-build route (and I suspect they would), Fournier would make sense in this scenario, too.

[CGD]

Yeah, I've been beating that drum recently.

If they want to pull a Pacers and go the re-load more so than re-build route (and I suspect they would), Fournier would make sense in this scenario, too.

The other elephant in the room we haven’t discussed is: what does a rebuild (or even reload) mean for LMA? Will he renew his ask to be traded or does he stay and take some of the knocks with a largely new cast of characters? And then if he does want a trade, what could he conceivably fetch in a world that minimizes his skills more and more?

[mo7888]

The other elephant in the room we haven’t discussed is: what does a rebuild (or even reload) mean for LMA? Will he renew his ask to be traded or does he stay and take some of the knocks with a largely new cast of characters? And then if he does want a trade, what could he conceivably fetch in a world that minimizes his skills more and more?

I think LA stays because he would be the focal point again and he relishes that. However, if we did trade him his value is better than last year because of his production and reasonable contract going forward. Phoenix would probably give bender, 15 and 31. Pavers might give sabonis or Turner. Personally, I'd try to get Wiggins from Minny since I think thibs is down on him.

[TD 21]

The other elephant in the room we haven’t discussed is: what does a rebuild (or even reload) mean for LMA? Will he renew his ask to be traded or does he stay and take some of the knocks with a largely new cast of characters? And then if he does want a trade, what could he conceivably fetch in a world that minimizes his skills more and more?

I think the Spurs would reload moreso than rebuild and that Aldridge would want to stay. Coming home was arguably the biggest reason he signed here initially. As mo7888 said, he'd also continue to be the focal point, which he relishes. He also just got comfortable and committed to probably finishing his career here when he signed his extension. I doubt he'd be interested in restarting that process again.

Difficult to say what he'd fetch, but it almost certainly wouldn't even be close to commensurate for a player of his caliber.

[CGD]

This all makes sense.

Do you guys know what the deal is with possibly including players like Anderson, Forbes, and Bertans in pre-draft deals? Not well versed in what there contracts allow/not allow at this point.

[mo7888]

This all makes sense.

Do you guys know what the deal is with possibly including players like Anderson, Forbes, and Bertans in pre-draft deals? Not well versed in what there contracts allow/not allow at this point.

I'm not a cap guru but, I don't think they are eligible to be traded in pre-draft deals.

[BackHome]

If we trade Kawhi and get the right players we can be a better team next year. To get even better Spurs got to make hard calls and trade or let go the following ; Gasol, Mills, Tony, Forbes, Paul, Joffrey.

[CGD]

^ there will be growing pains, but in my three way deal above spurs would be poised for a good retool:

Starters:
Fultz
Fournier
Covington
Saric
LMA

Key reserves:
Bertans
Manu
TP (vet deal)
White
Gay

Picks/Stashes:
10th Pick
18th Pick
Mulitinov
AP/Bolden

[MaNu4Tres]

^ there will be growing pains, but in my three way deal above spurs would be poised for a good retool:

Starters:
Fultz
Fournier
Covington
Saric
LMA

Key reserves:
Bertans
Manu
TP (vet deal)
White
Gay

Picks/Stashes:
10th Pick
18th Pick
Mulitinov
AP/Bolden

So gross. imo. Don't want that at all.

[BackHome]

I like that trade with Philly cause of players on there roster and players over seas and multiple draft picks.

[CGD]

I like that trade with Philly cause of players on there roster and players over seas and multiple draft picks.

I agree. No one ever wants to lose a top 5 player, but if that’s what ends up happening i can’t see a better (and realistic) trade partner than Philly right now. They’re also feeling exposed after this BOS series.

Had the BOS series gone differently maybe they look like a good partner, but right now we’d be lucky if cheapo offers Rozier and the Sac Pick next year. And why would they? They’ll trot out a starting line up of Irving, Brown, Hayward, Tatum, and Hortford next year, wow.

[Baam]

I'm still a Fultz believer too.

Don't like Fournier tho.

Fultz Murray/Tp
Green Gino/White
Covington Gay
Saric Bolden
LMA Gasol

Don't think they trade Murray, if he can hit the corner 3 he'd start at SG since you're almost always better off starting your best defenders.

[venitian navigator]

I hope kl stays.
But if he has to go one good option could be Cleveland...
Three way trade (2 options)

Clev get KL (in second option Kl + Gasol)
Clips get K Love + L Nance
Spurs get Gallo + Osman 7th 12th and 13th (in second option all that + Zizic)

[tbdog]

But who in Philly would you want. I don't see Saric more than a 6th man. I honestly would only want Simmons, but Philly would want to keep him and embid. Philly won't touch that unless Leonard resigns.

[palangi]

I'd take Fultz, Saric, Covington, their top ten pick, and their 2 top picks in round 2.
Give up Kawhi and murray.

Draft
1. Kevin Knox SF or if Kentucky. Great short and good length at 6'9". A 7'+ wingspan too.
https://youtu.be/XQbAC_CIS2Q

18. Gary Trent SG put of Duke. At 6'6" he has good size and is a ++shooter. I think he is similar to Klay Thompson.
https://youtu.be/hyeV37oLQps

2a. Chidezie Metu PF put of USC. At 6'10 he is very athletic. Can score and shoot.
https://youtu.be/aJ3etqtg-oM

2b. Austin Wiley C out of Auburn. At 6'10" he has a 7'6" wingspan. Good athleticism. Kind o fa Capela type player to develop
https://youtu.be/olN1z9G3Oy8

2c. Jacob Evans SG out of Cincinnati. A 3&D type prospect. Very good athleticism and good shooter.
https://youtu.be/YgDCX7GPnqY


PG- Fultz, White, Forbes
SG- Covington, Trent, Evans
SF- Knox, Blossomgame
PF- Saric, Metu, Bertans
C- Aldridge, Mulitinov, Wiley

[lmbebo]

I'd take Fultz, Saric, Covington, their top ten pick, and their 2 top picks in round 2.
Give up Kawhi and murray.

Draft
1. Kevin Knox SF or if Kentucky. Great short and good length at 6'9". A 7'+ wingspan too.
https://youtu.be/XQbAC_CIS2Q

18. Gary Trent SG put of Duke. At 6'6" he has good size and is a ++shooter. I think he is similar to Klay Thompson.
https://youtu.be/hyeV37oLQps

2a. Chidezie Metu PF put of USC. At 6'10 he is very athletic. Can score and shoot.
https://youtu.be/aJ3etqtg-oM

2b. Austin Wiley C out of Auburn. At 6'10" he has a 7'6" wingspan. Good athleticism. Kind o fa Capela type player to develop
https://youtu.be/olN1z9G3Oy8

2c. Jacob Evans SG out of Cincinnati. A 3&D type prospect. Very good athleticism and good shooter.
https://youtu.be/YgDCX7GPnqY


PG- Fultz, White, Forbes
SG- Covington, Trent, Evans
SF- Knox, Blossomgame
PF- Saric, Metu, Bertans
C- Aldridge, Mulitinov, Wiley

1st round mediocrity for years to come ...

[CGD]

^ Yes, no the spurs are going to struggle without Leonard. And, yes you are getting cents on the dollar for Leonard. It’s clear that the spurs aren’t getting a Simmons, Embid, or Tatum back. It’s just not in the cards.

Question is do you get .50 cents (Clips deal of Harris + 13+ 14) or .70 cents (Philly deal of Fultz +Dario+10+ a stashed play/2nd) to the dollar?

knowing it’s not going to be equal value, I think a Philly deal is the best they’re gonna get, unless Boston makes a panick move bc they think Lebron goes to Philly.

[palangi]

1st round mediocrity for years to come ...

But we are in so much better shape right now?

[BackHome]

Guys we got into the first round without Kawhi with players like Forbes, Paul, Mills, Green, Joffrey. If we do Kawhi trade I guarantee we could upgrade almost every position.

As previous poster suggested Saric, Fultz, , I would also want Jonah Bolden 6’ 10 foreign draft pick plus there lottery picks. I also can see us possibly including Green, or Mills with the Kawhi trade.

Philly Lottery Pick. We pick Mikal Bridges 6’7 SG/SF - a very good player not many wholes in his game would be a instant starter.

Our Pick : Zhaire Smith SG 6’5 instant upgrade over Green

Philly high second round pick: would go for Diop or Hutchison.

PG : Murray, Fultz, White
SG: Zhaire, Manu, Hutchison, Hanga
SF: Mikal Bridges, Diop
PF: LMA, Saric, Rudy, Jonah Bolden ( Anderson or Bertans)
C: Gasol, Niko

[pad300]

I'd take Fultz, Saric, Covington, their top ten pick, and their 2 top picks in round 2.
Give up Kawhi and murray.

Draft
1. Kevin Knox SF or if Kentucky. Great short and good length at 6'9". A 7'+ wingspan too.
https://youtu.be/XQbAC_CIS2Q

18. Gary Trent SG put of Duke. At 6'6" he has good size and is a ++shooter. I think he is similar to Klay Thompson.
https://youtu.be/hyeV37oLQps

2a. Chidezie Metu PF put of USC. At 6'10 he is very athletic. Can score and shoot.
https://youtu.be/aJ3etqtg-oM

2b. Austin Wiley C out of Auburn. At 6'10" he has a 7'6" wingspan. Good athleticism. Kind o fa Capela type player to develop
https://youtu.be/olN1z9G3Oy8

2c. Jacob Evans SG out of Cincinnati. A 3&D type prospect. Very good athleticism and good shooter.
https://youtu.be/YgDCX7GPnqY


PG- Fultz, White, Forbes
SG- Covington, Trent, Evans
SF- Knox, Blossomgame
PF- Saric, Metu, Bertans
C- Aldridge, Mulitinov, Wiley

Lets's count the contracts you just magically evaporated - Manu (he could retire but is under contract), Mills, Gasol, Green (could opt out), Gay (could opt out), Joffrey (could opt out), Brandon Paul (under contract)...
Let's try doing something that's vaguely real with this trade, and IMO a lot better.

1. Fultz, Saric, Covington, their top ten pick, Bolden, 2020 First for Kawhi and Murray
2. Trade Mills and Fultz to CHA for Walker (he's expiring and is going to want a LOT to resign with them). If you have to, throw in the 2020 PHI first or other asset.
3. If Green or Gay opt out, resign if possible using Bird/non-Bird FA rights respectively.
4. Resign Anderson for less than the MLE
5. Pursue Tyreke Evans for the full MLE
6. Resign TP for the vet min 1 year (give him a chance to recover more fully from his injury
7. Cut Brandon Paul
8. Do not resign Forbes.

PG - Walker, White, TP
SG - Green, Evans, Manu
SF - Covington, Gay/Anderson
PF - Gay/Anderson, Saric,
C - LMA, Gasol, Joffrey

Add #10, #18 picks - 15 roster spots. As we have spent the full MLE, Bolden and Milutinov will continue to be stashed - likely for next year to replace Joffrey and Gasol.

Hugely improved PG play - can initiate the offense, 2 good 3&D wings to space the floor, LMA as a 1st option, Kemba as initiator/2nd option, Gay as 3ed Option. The bench has major punch with Evans taking the "Manu" role, and White looking good...

[BackHome]

If you trade Fultz for Walker then your in it to win it cause he is going to be 29 and with a great PG we could do some serious hurting. My only issue would be at SF as Anderson doesn’t shoot and is more a passing PF. Would love to be able to get Mikal Bridges from Philly draft pick to play SF

Also go over the cap or do what you have to do and get rid of Joffrey and bring in Nikola just look what Baynes has done for Boston. You add the above players and then draft Bridges and bring in Nikola would give us a legit chance if a ring.

If you bring in Walker there is absolutely no reason to keep Tony he will see no playing time at all as he is behind Murray and White.

As as far as Fultz man watching his college games again man he is good and cheap it would be up to his shoulder injury and can Chip fix his shot. If you bring in him then yeah Parker could stay.