General Trades Discussion

[Chinook]

When it comes to shedding Blair or even Neal, a reasonable partner is the 76ers.

...

If the Spurs want to go an extra mile, they can package the two and I think add James Anderson (after they're allowed to trade him) to get Kwame + the two 2nds. Kwame isn't playing well as far as I can tell, but there it is.

Indeed, I think Philly is a good partner, either in a direct trade, or as a way for the Spurs to shed salary/roster spots as part of a bigger trade. San Antonio can send one of them to Philly for a TE and a second, which would probably be better than taking Ivey back (he's supposedly a good defender, but he's a point guard).

If Kwame is healthy, he's good enough to be a backup center. That would give Pop more flexibility to use a Duncan/Splitter set up. The only issue with including Anderson is that he's only available to be traded on the deadline day. Not only does that mean the Spurs have to wait two-and-a-half months, but it also means they can't call in the trade until the last minute, and if there's some unexpected holdup, that could really mess them up.

[Paranoid Pop]

We agree a lot more than we disagree. If Anderson continues to show he's for real, there's no question you keep him instead of Green. I'm really happy with what he's doing, and I hope he revives his career in a Spurs uniform. I believe in Green, and I think he's a lot better than you think he is. More importantly, I think other teams think he's valuable, and that may be what's needed to get back a good player if they decide to trade him.

I hope the Pelicans trade Gordon (for their sakes) and send Rivers to the d-league so that he can work on his game and get a dose of humility. In order to be a complete team, they will need another shooting guard. But there's no reason to trade for Green (or Neal or any shooting guard) until they are ready to become a divisional threat. There's still a possibility that their 2s contribute the way they have the potential to. Green's not the type of player you want on a rebuilding team,

The Spurs need an honest-to-God power forward. They have good small-ball options right now in Kawhi and Jack. Aminu would be locked behind them at the 3 spot and behind them, Diaw and Bonner/Blair for the 4. If spots open up, he's an intriguing option as a side-get in a larger web of trades. Right now (meaning when Kawhi and Jack come back) he'd be a luxury at a time when the Spurs may still have basic needs.

Yeah you're probably right, it's a real head scratcher tbh.

[objective]

Looks like the 76ers have a 1.7 exception from Moe Harkless if ESPN is to be believed, so you're right, no need to take back Ivey.

[ABC]

More on Derrick Williams Trade Possibility:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...de_Possibility

Derrick Williams' agent, Rob Pelinka, has not formally requested a trade for his client, but he has asked the Minnesota Timberwovles about the possibility of parting ways due to lack of playing time, according to a team source.

The Timberwolves, however, let Pelinka know that they will first wait to see how Williams and Ricky Rubio mesh on the court once Rubio returns from a torn ACL.
"We told him to wait for our team to come together," the source said. "Wait for Derrick to play with Ricky (Rubio). When they played together last year, Williams benefited greatly."

Williams, the No. 2 pick in 2011 NBA Draft, is averaging nine points in just 19.9 minutes per game this season, when he has sat three times because of coach Rick Adelman's decision.

It is most likely that Rubio will return for a home game on Dec. 15 against the Dallas Mavericks.

[Bruno]

Minny saying to Williams to wait for Rubio is a little weird. Williams is out of their rotation with Kirilenko/Howard playing SF and Love/Cunningham playing PF. Will they change their rotation once Rubio came back? It seem doubtful even more they will need to have Williams playing with the first unit to be paired with Rubio.

To me, it sounds more than they are just playing the clock. A trade seems inevitable.

[Chinook]

Minny saying to Williams to wait for Rubio is a little weird. Williams is out of their rotation with Kirilenko/Howard playing SF and Love/Cunningham playing PF. Will they change their rotation once Rubio came back? It seem doubtful even more they will need to have Williams playing with the first unit to be paired with Rubio.

To me, it sounds more than they are just playing the clock. A trade seems inevitable.

Not that our opinions matter to what's actually going to happen. But out of all the semi-realistic PF options discussed (Williams, Millsap, Mbah a Moute, Aminu in some minds, etc.) for whom would you most prefer the Spurs trade? I love Willams' potential, but I can't see how he'd crack the rotation this year.

[Bruno]

Not that our opinions matter to what's actually going to happen. But out of all the semi-realistic PF options discussed (Williams, Millsap, Mbah a Moute, Aminu in some minds, etc.) for whom would you most prefer the Spurs trade? I love Willams' potential, but I can't see how he'd crack the rotation this year.

To me: Millsap > Williams > Mbah a Moute > Aminu.

I'm really convinced Spurs don't have the assets to get Millsap (without trading Kawhi, of course). Regarding Williams, I would put him as backup PF with Diaw being the starting PF.

[ABC]

Minny saying to Williams to wait for Rubio is a little weird. Williams is out of their rotation with Kirilenko/Howard playing SF and Love/Cunningham playing PF. Will they change their rotation once Rubio came back? It seem doubtful even more they will need to have Williams playing with the first unit to be paired with Rubio.

To me, it sounds more than they are just playing the clock. A trade seems inevitable.

That's what it sounds like to me too. They're trying to keep his value up by saying he just needs to play with the right point guard to be effective and they're also trying to keep Williams and his agent happy by saying he might get more playing time soon.

[Chinook]

If the Spurs were to go the Williams route, I would prefer they find a way to trade Blair and keep Bonner. I think the fifth-big role really works for him, and I don't think Blair would be happy going back to being inactive. If the Spurs traded him (to Philly, for example) then they'd be short (lol, pun) a big. Having Bonner would mean the Spurs wouldn't have to depend on Williams being good yet this year.

I don't think the Spurs could get Millsap without messing up their team -- at least not in a direct trade. If the Jazz are seriously looking to move him for a player like good point guard, the Spurs may be able to move in and get him if they have something the other team wants more than Millsap.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a7m2ok8

This isn't what Utah is looking for, but it's a way to explain the idea. I wouldn't make that trade right now, even if Utah agreed, because I want to see more from De Colo. Moving Diaw or Jackson would make taking Millsap's salary back much easier.

[TD 21]

To me: Millsap > Williams > Mbah a Moute > Aminu.

I'm really convinced Spurs don't have the assets to get Millsap (without trading Kawhi, of course). Regarding Williams, I would put him as backup PF with Diaw being the starting PF.

As I said last week, I think they do have the assets to get him without giving up a major piece. I'm not saying it's likely or that they will, but I think they have a chance, even if it is an outside one.

If my proposal of Diaw, Blair, Joseph (or, if they prefer Mills or De Colo), Anderson and a 1st, doesn't get it done, then I'd offer 2 1sts. One of them is all but guaranteed to be a bottom 5 pick and the other will probably end up being a non lottery pick, too, because even when Duncan and Ginobili retire, a core of Parker, Green, Leonard, Millsap, Splitter and Neal, is a likely playoff team. Even if they missed, it's difficult to envision them being bad enough for the pick to come back and bite the Spurs. In the unlikely event it does, nobody's going to care if they win the championship this season or next and having an increased chance of doing so is easily worth that risk.

[objective]

I've not been following the Milsap discussion, but I don't see how they'd be interested in anything the Spurs have that's not big 3 or Leonard, and even Kawhi I don't know.

Even two draft picks from the Spurs wouldn't be very enticing. They already have 3 lottery picks they can't give enough minutes to and one of them barely plays at all. More youth isn't what they would want, nor two back up points who aren't any better than the back ups they already have.

[ace3g]

I think Derrick Williams would be a great addition, like Diaw last season, Williams would be motivated with a change of scenery. He still puts up decent rebounding numbers, has 3 point range, and young. Plus Sean Elliott would love another Arizona Wildcat on the roster.

*If the Wolves statement is correct that Williams put up his best numbers along side Rubio, maybe he can do the same with Nando (similar skill set to Rubio).

[Chinook]

*If the Wolves statement is correct that Williams put up his best numbers along side Rubio, maybe he can do the same with Nando (similar skill set to Rubio).

Not to mention with Manu and Diaw at times. The Spurs' passing system really makes it easy for scorers to get the shots they like. So I think he'd do well here offensively so long as he gets the system.

If his three-point shot is consistent, then Williams probably could replace Bonner as the second stretch four. I still don't know if he'd play better with Splitter than he would if he were in the starting line up. Diaw seems comfortable in his bench role now, and I'd be inclined to keep him there and just replace Blair with Williams.

But is he a player that the Spurs would realistically target? It seems like they prefer to get established veterans if they make trades.

[Bruno]

If the Spurs were to go the Williams route, I would prefer they find a way to trade Blair and keep Bonner. I think the fifth-big role really works for him, and I don't think Blair would be happy going back to being inactive. If the Spurs traded him (to Philly, for example) then they'd be short (lol, pun) a big. Having Bonner would mean the Spurs wouldn't have to depend on Williams being good yet this year.

If Spurs trade for Williams, they had to be high on him because there is an important financial commitment coming with him. His salary this year is $4.8M, $5M for next season and $6.3M for 2014/2015 with the deadline to pick the option on that year being at the end of next season training camp.

Personally, I would have no issue at all with Spurs trading both Blair and Bonner if they can get a good PF. As you said, Blair could/would be a pain in the ass to have at the end of the bench. I consider Bonner being worthless, even as a 5th big, because, at the end, it's all about the playoffs and he is atrocious at that time of the year.

[CGD]

Sounds like if a team really wanted Williams they'd wait until this summer to see if Minni fails to pick up his option, and then trade for him next year. If the spurs did pursue him, what could they realistically offer the wolves outside of cap relief? Don't know why but I get a gut feeling Gasol is going to get traded to Minni, and one of the parts sent to Lakers is going to be this dude.

Im more pedestrian in my trade hopes. Mbah a moute is interesting. I still like Patterson despite his declining numbers this year. I get that Blair is on a cheap salary and all, but he needs to move on.

[CGD]

If Spurs move bonner they do need a of that can knock down an outside shot to space the floor. No bullshit. The recent Memphis showed the value of that.

[Chinook]

If Spurs trade for Williams, they had to be high on him because there is an important financial commitment coming with him. His salary this year is $4.8M, $5M for next season and $6.3M for 2014/2015 with the deadline to pick the option on that year being at the end of next season training camp.

Personally, I would have no issue at all with Spurs trading both Blair and Bonner if they can get a good PF. As you said, Blair could/would be a pain in the ass to have at the end of the bench. I consider Bonner being worthless, even as a 5th big, because, at the end, it's all about the playoffs and he is atrocious at that time of the year.

Yeah, if the Spurs can get a guy like Baynes to come aboard as the fifth big, I'd feel pretty comfortable trading for Williams. Hell, even if they don't get Williams, I couldn't get Blair out the door fast enough if Baynes is willing to come over. I hope the Spurs consider getting Williams as opposed to signing an older player. I would love to see them land a good young prospect sometime.

It doesn't look like Pop is planning on playing Bonner in the playoffs much, if at all, this season. He seems adequate about only playing him as a change of pace, fifth big off the bench. Those players are usually out of the post season rotation, anyway.

[elemento]

I would love to get Williams. If San Antonio can transform Matt Bonner into a decent role player, I am positive that they can do the same with Derrick Williams. Maybe he can be the stretch 4 that SA has been looking for since Horry. Still, I don't think Minny is willing to sell him low (Bonner + Blair for Williams is terrible value for Minny). Remember that Minny asked the 2nd overall pick this draft for Derrick Williams (Cho obviously refused). Still, I think Minny would ask one of our SGs (Green or Neal) to pull the trigger. They only have Shved with Roy's injury (and possibly retirement) and they're playing a lot of small-ball with Ridnour + Barea.

[Chinook]

I think most in this thread are willing to give up Neal for Williams. Bruno's suggestion was Neal and Bonner. I've also heard Green and Blair. No one's paying attention to that second package yet because Green can't be traded until next month. With that in mind, I'd like this to go down:

Trade Blair to Philly for the Pelican's second-rounder

Trade Neal, Bonner and one of the Spurs' first or the NO second (potentially both) for Williams

Sign an established PF (Martin, or McDyess if he checks out physically) or call up Wilkerson/Sullivan to be the fifth big

It wouldn't hurt to bring in Baynes, either, because it would be nice if the fifth big could play the center spot.

[Paranoid Pop]

I don't like Williams and he's owned a lot of money, wouldn't do it tbh, makes the TWolves a lot better too when we could see them as 8th seed but yeah I'd say it's fair to say I'm in the minority on that.

[elemento]

@ chino . I've made a trade proposal on realgm just 4fun with Green + Mills + Bonner going to Minny for Derrick Williams + Luke Ridnour (after december 15th). All Minny fans liked it. I like it for us because : We lack a reliable backup PG and Ridnour is a good one. With this move, Neal gets back to his best position by far (SG) as Manu's backup and with a reliable backup PG, Manu could simply start again. (just like when Ford was here)Our depth chart would be : Tony Parker / Luke Ridnour / Cory JosephManu Ginobili / Gary Neal / Nando De Colo Kawhi Leonard / Stephen Jackson Boris Diaw / Derrick Williams / Dejuan Blair Tim Duncan / Tiago Splitter. For Minny it makes sense because with Rubio back they would have 2 backup PGs making too much money (4m/each). Mills is a cheap 3rd string PG and Green makes sense with Roy down and considering that they only have Shved, a rookie, as a reliable SG option. PS: Don't know why my post keeps going without space, That's not how I am typing it. Sorry about that.

[Chinook]

@ chino . I've made a trade proposal on realgm just 4fun with Green + Mills + Bonner going to Minny for Derrick Williams + Luke Ridnour (after december 15th). All Minny fans liked it. I like it for us because : We lack a reliable backup PG and Ridnour is a good one. With this move, Neal gets back to his best position by far (SG) as Manu's backup and with a reliable backup PG, Manu could simply start again. (just like when Ford was here)Our depth chart would be : Tony Parker / Luke Ridnour / Cory JosephManu Ginobili / Gary Neal / Nando De Colo Kawhi Leonard / Stephen Jackson Boris Diaw / Derrick Williams / Dejuan Blair Tim Duncan / Tiago Splitter. For Minny it makes sense because with Rubio back they would have 2 backup PGs making too much money (4m/each). Mills is a cheap 3rd string PG and Green makes sense with Roy down and considering that they only have Shved, a rookie, as a reliable SG option. PS: Don't know why my post keeps going without space, That's not how I am typing it. Sorry about that.

No worries about the formatting. I'm new here, and I have to edit my posts almost every time.

Two issues with your trade scenario:

1) Danny Green cannot be traded until January 15. He is a BYC player (which nowadays pretty much a restricted free agent who resigned with his own team), so he has different restrictions than a normal free agent. Incidentally, Mills can veto this deal as well (in order to keep his early-Bird rights), but I don't think that's an issue, because he'd probably think he could get more playing time with the Wolves than the Spurs in that scenario.

2) I don't think the Spurs like Ridnour enough to consider that trade. If his contract were expiring at the end of this season, then that'd be one thing. But he's due $4.3 Million next year (fully guaranteed, according to Sham). San Antonio has options at the back up point they seem to like in De Colo and Joseph. My guess is that this would only work as part of a series of trades in which the Spurs moved some more guards to make room for him.

Those aren't the biggest hurdles to overcome, and if the Spurs really like Williams, then taking back Ridnour is not too big of a price if they feel comfortable with De Colo playing the 2. I think Nando is too good to keep on the bench for the next two years, though. To be honest, if the Williams market heats up, then the biggest obstacle to your trade scenario will be Green's BYC restriction. The way it sounds, the Wolves may move him sooner than later. The Spurs may not be able to wait until January.

[elemento]

Fair points Chino

I'm not sold on Nando's ability to be a full-time PG, but that's me. I still think he is a SG with great passing skills, just like Manu.

For SA's FO pull the trigger on Williams, It would have to be Bruno's scenario with only Bonner + Neal for Williams. I think Neal is quite underrated in ST and SA would miss his scoring punch off the bench, but that move would be a no-brainer, at least for me.

I don't Minny will wait too much to move him. Williams may end up like Wes Johson, who in the end was moved for nothing because he had no trade value as a big time bust.

[szkorhetz]

Guys, I had a dream tonight, where Varejao was traded to us for Mills, Neal, Bonner and a first round pick.
I wish!

[ABC]

More on Vesely:

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...zards_Rotation

Jan Vesely has received DNP-Coach's Decision in each of the last two Washington Wizards games and has been falling out of the team's playing rotation.

Throughout the season, Vesely has been a supportive teammate. He also has the support of owner Ted Leonsis and coach Randy Wittman.

“I don’t want him to step away from game playing, I want him to be ready every night,” Wittman said. “As our guys know, it can change at any minute. We’ve said that all year, with who I started and who’s played and who hasn’t played. He’s got to keep practicing hard and it’s going to come. It’s going to happen.”

The Wizards don't plan to send Vesely to the D-League, according to a league source. It is clear, however, that he has seen a decline in playing time since being moved to the starting lineup on Nov. 26.

[Russo21]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aagtxcg

something like that would go down ok

[Bruno]

I don't know if Spurs would be interested in Vesely because he is very atypical player with big holes in his game but what I'm sure is that he would be so much better with Spurs than with the Wizards. A winning, well structured, Euro-friendly team would do wonders for him.

[ABC]

I don't know if Spurs would be interested in Vesely because he is very atypical player with big holes in his game but what I'm sure is that he would be so much better with Spurs than with the Wizards. A winning, well structured, Euro-friendly team would do wonders for him.

Yeah, I like Williams better right now, but I think Williams might cost more too.

[Chinook]

Can Vesely shoot away from the basket? I couldn't find evidence in that in the videos I saw. If he can only score in the paint, I don't really see how he can help the Spurs at all.

[Paranoid Pop]

I like the idea of getting Vesely, not sure what it would take tho.