General Trades Discussion

[Bruno]

What do you think it would take to get Vesely? Bonner and 1st round pick works salary wise, but I'm not sure Washington would do it. Blair and two of Mills/Neal/Joseph? Bonner and a guard for Vesely and filler?

With the way Vesely is playing Bonner and a 1st should be enough. The 1st might be even not needed. However, I think Wizards will wait a little before making him available. Once Wall is back, Vesely might fit better and they might too get a new coach.

[Duncan2177]

Keeping both Millsap and Al Jefferson seems too much for Utah if they want to develop Favors and Kanter. Millsap seems to be the odd man out right now. The issue, is that, even if Spurs are interested, they don't really have the necessary pieces to get him. Other teams could/would offer a better package for him.

While I can see Spurs doing a trade to get a bigman, it will likely be for a low profile player because they don't have the assets to get better. Derrick Williams was an interesting option talked few days ago. I would throw another name after yesterday's game: Jan Vesely.

Or Kevin Seraphin?

[Bruno]

Or Kevin Seraphin?

I don't see Wizards being interested in trading him.

I see two types of players who could be good targets for Spurs: vet players on a young rebuilding team or young talented players who struggles with their current team.

[ABC]

With the way Vesely is playing Bonner and a 1st should be enough. The 1st might be even not needed. However, I think Wizards will wait a little before making him available. Once Wall is back, Vesely might fit better and they might too get a new coach.

Thanks, Bruno. With Vesely's upside, I think Bonner and a 1st is worth it. Hopefully the Spurs can do something to improve the frontcourt for this season, but getting a project big for a reasonable price would be ok.

[DPG21920]

Keeping both Millsap and Al Jefferson seems too much for Utah if they want to develop Favors and Kanter. Millsap seems to be the odd man out right now. The issue, is that, even if Spurs are interested, they don't really have the necessary pieces to get him. Other teams could/would offer a better package for him.

While I can see Spurs doing a trade to get a bigman, it will likely be for a low profile player because they don't have the assets to get better. Derrick Williams was an interesting option talked few days ago. I would throw another name after yesterday's game: Jan Vesely.

I am not so sure I fully agree about the Spurs chances to get him. How much value can Millsap have if everyone knows UTA will not sign him in the offseasn and that he will walk for no compensation? Why give up a lot if you can get him in free agency? If that is the case, it will really be contenders who want him at the deadline (instead of bad teams with cap space that can sign him without giving up anything in the offseason) and their aren't a lot of contenders with expiring contracts right now with the relationship the Spurs have with the UTA front office.

[TD 21]

It would take a three way trade to acquire Millsap because a package built around Jackson and Blair solves what for them? Millsap is expiring anyway, so there goes Jackson's value and Blair doesn't have much value. Even if you add a 1st, how much value is a late 20's pick going to have? They'd probably have to send Splitter to a third team and acquire either a lottery pick or a quality PG prospect to satisfy the Jazz. Suffice it to say, that makes no sense.

I was thinking Varejao for a while, but he's playing so far out of his mind that I no longer see that happening. At this point, I'm back to hoping for Amir Johnson, but to play a different role than the one I envisioned two off seasons ago. I detail why he makes sense in my "Eliminated in the Conference Semis" thread.

[DPG21920]

We just disagree. They won't want to take on salary (Jackson expiring gives them that) so they can keep the cap space from the expiring. They might want a decent role player (Spurs have plenty of those) & a draft pick (Spurs have that). To me it boils down to why would a team with cap space give up a good first rounder when they can just sign Millsap in FA for free without giving up any assets at all. Not to mention, Millsap's value has taken a hit because of UTA not playing him as much and his numbers are suffering.

They may get something better than the Spurs offer, but I highly doubt they get a lottery pick + expirings for a guy everyone knows they are not resigning.

[DPG21920]

Plus some other factors to consider: Several contenders/playoff teams that have expiring contracts to trade (like Atlanta) are seemingly lining up a run at Dwight Howard/CP3 possibly. They might be wary of giving up any cap space/making any moves at the trade deadline because of that.

I am sure a lot of teams will be interested, but what other teams have the expiring+young talent+high picks out there to compete?

[TD 21]

We just disagree. They won't want to take on salary (Jackson expiring gives them that) so they can keep the cap space from the expiring. They might want a decent role player (Spurs have plenty of those) & a draft pick (Spurs have that). To me it boils down to why would a team with cap space give up a good first rounder when they can just sign Millsap in FA for free without giving up any assets at all. Not to mention, Millsap's value has taken a hit because of UTA not playing him as much and his numbers are suffering.

They may get something better than the Spurs offer, but I highly doubt they get a lottery pick + expirings for a guy everyone knows they are not resigning.

But by keeping the cap space, what did they gain? They just downgraded players (while taking on more money in the process). Blair isn't valuable enough to offset this, plus he'd be a poor fit given the relative lack of shooting amongst Jefferson, Favors and Kanter.

I see what you're saying though. What they'll want (one of: lottery pick, dynamic wing player, PG of the future), it's unlikely they'll get because he can just walk at season's end. Also, most contenders and even pseudo contenders are set at PF. It would probably require someone seeing him as a potential over the top piece for them to get what they're looking for and I doubt anyone views him that way.

I'd offer Diaw, Blair, Joseph, Anderson and a 1st; then I'd sign McDyess.

[DPG21920]

I'd say even a Neal would be a pretty nice player for them. Spurs could send cash to offset Jax's extra money. They would gain a pick + player they like and keep their cap space vs. just having their cap space. Seems like what will likely happen, Spurs or not.

[TD 21]

I'd say even a Neal would be a pretty nice player for them. Spurs could send cash to offset Jax's extra money. They would gain a pick + player they like and keep their cap space vs. just having their cap space. Seems like what will likely happen, Spurs or not.

But they've got Foye to play the Neal role. Granted, he's up after this season too, but still. And I'm not even sure the Spurs would part with Jackson, other than for a real game changer.

Diaw would be a nice fit for them, Joseph is a decent PG prospect (although his ceiling is probably 15 mpg backup) and 25-30 or not, a 1st is still a 1st. So that would be three decent pieces. Blair would basically be filler, but they could still take a look at him.

You're making too much of maintaining their cap space. They've got roughly $26.116 M (and could shave another roughly $789 by waiving Murphy) committed for next season. The cap projects to be around $60M. Diaw and Joseph make roughly a combined $5.8, still leaving them in excess of $28M under the cap.

[Paranoid Pop]

Not even sure I'd do Boris for Millsap straight up tbh, I really don't see the point, rebounding gets a bit better, passing gets a lot worse, after last year playoffs I'm not convinced this is an upgrade.

Same with Sjax who is the best back up PF in a 'projected' playoff rotation.

Tbh at this point I'd just try to sign Gelabale and send Blair for the earliest second round pick we can get.

Duncan Splitter
Diaw SJax
Kawhi Gelabale
Green Manu
TP Neal?

If I trade with the Jazz, I make sure they send Burks to make it worth it, someone that can be developped and part of the future and at the same time that has a chance right now to stay with a beast like Bledsoe on defense.

[Paranoid Pop]

If we keep SJax (and ultimately I think this is the prefered option because no one really wants to part with him) he has to play PF after his mindboggling defense on several elite PFs like Dirk, Aldrigde and so on, so let's get a 3 and send Blair somewhere to make it happen.

[elemento]

Millsap is better than all our bigs not named Duncan, but is he really the answer for SA? 6'7 in shoes, struggles against size and Boris Diaw had not problem to hold him to a pathetic 12ppg @ 37%FG in the playoffs. I would love to have him as a 6th man providing instant offense off the bench, but i don't see him as the starting PF that would take SA to the next level.

Millsap is pretty much what we expected Blair to be if he had work ethic from day 1. Plus, Millsap not signing an extension doesn't mean the Jazz will let him go. Millsap refused to sign an extension because he knows he can get more in the open market. 4/40 is absolutely his floor.

A decent partner for the Jazz could be the Clippers. Bledsoe is ready to explode and he will never have the chance in LAC with Paul there. Considering how pathetic Odom has been, they could use his expiring + Bledsoe to land Millsap. PG is the only position that the Jazz does't have a young prospect (they have Burks, Hayward, Favors and Kanter) and the Clippers bench in terms of bigs is really weak. BK could be another decent partner in a S&T.

Anyway, It's pretty hard to find the ideal partner. Our "expendables" are not enough to land a good PF and most fans are not willing to give up talent to get talent. It's usually trash for talent and it simply doesn't happen in real world unless you're the Lakers.

[Paranoid Pop]

Just read a trade article at PtR, don't think any of the trade suggested are realistic but I think Biyombo as a target is interesting enough.

Bruno do you think they'd part with him for anything less than Kawhi or that they'd even consider parting with him bar none? I haven't read the slighest trade rumor involving him tbh so I'm pretty sceptical. Green (UNC legend ) + pick doesn't seem enough but that would be nice :

Duncan Splitter
Biyombo Sjax
Boris Gelabale
Kawhi Manu
TP

Boris and KY would be a tad slow at their position but I think it could work vs any of the bigger teams.

[Bruno]

Bruno do you think they'd part with him for anything less than Kawhi or that they'd even consider parting with him bar none? I haven't read the slighest trade rumor involving him tbh so I'm pretty sceptical.

I don't see why Charlotte would trade Biyombo or why Spurs would give up a lot to get him. These trade proposal posts made on various Spurs fans blogs are quite random.


On a side note, I really think the Derrick Williams situation is worth keeping an eye on. He got 3 DNP-CD in the last 4 games. If it continues like that, there will be a moment where Minny won't be interested in keeping a player that will make $5M next year. Bonner, with his almost expiring contract, and Neal, a player that could help them a lot, could start to sound like a intriguing package for them.

[MR.SILVER&BLack]

does the wolves still have randolf??...whatever happen to this clown? spurs should have a look

He's with Denver now but it looks like hes stuck at the end of their bench.

[Chinook]

I don't see why Charlotte would trade Biyombo or why Spurs would give up a lot to get him. These trade proposal posts made on various Spurs fans blogs are quite random.


On a side note, I really think the Derrick Williams situation is worth keeping an eye on. He got 3 DNP-CD in the last 4 games. If it continues like that, there will be a moment where Minny won't be interested in keeping a player that will make $5M next year. Bonner, with his almost expiring contract, and Neal, a player that could help them a lot, could start to sound like a intriguing package for them.

I think someone will get him, but I think Minnesota is holding out hope that someone will consider him a star in the making and give up a lot for him. I could see him being part of Cleveland's compensation in a Varejao trade (with Varejao going to some third team). Bonner/sweeteners will probably be there at the deadline if not in June. The Wolves may decide to hold on to him until then.

The only thing I see forcing their hand is if their wing position deteriorates even more. Neal would be valuable to them. But with the health of Jack, Leonard and Ginobili in flux, can the Spurs afford to part with him?

[TD 21]

Millsap is better than all our bigs not named Duncan, but is he really the answer for SA? 6'7 in shoes, struggles against size and Boris Diaw had not problem to hold him to a pathetic 12ppg @ 37%FG in the playoffs. I would love to have him as a 6th man providing instant offense off the bench, but i don't see him as the starting PF that would take SA to the next level.

Millsap is pretty much what we expected Blair to be if he had work ethic from day 1. Plus, Millsap not signing an extension doesn't mean the Jazz will let him go. Millsap refused to sign an extension because he knows he can get more in the open market. 4/40 is absolutely his floor.

A decent partner for the Jazz could be the Clippers. Bledsoe is ready to explode and he will never have the chance in LAC with Paul there. Considering how pathetic Odom has been, they could use his expiring + Bledsoe to land Millsap. PG is the only position that the Jazz does't have a young prospect (they have Burks, Hayward, Favors and Kanter) and the Clippers bench in terms of bigs is really weak. BK could be another decent partner in a S&T.

Anyway, It's pretty hard to find the ideal partner. Our "expendables" are not enough to land a good PF and most fans are not willing to give up talent to get talent. It's usually trash for talent and it simply doesn't happen in real world unless you're the Lakers.

I don't know that he's necessarily the answer, but he's the closest they can realistically get and given how little they'd be giving up in my proposal, it would be a no brainer.

Not bad. But would the Clippers give up Bledsoe for a guy they'd be hard pressed to re-sign? And would he even want to re-sign, knowing he couldn't start and probably couldn't even crack 30 mpg? Keep in mind, this is someone who's early in their prime.

Generally speaking, I agree, the usual suspects aren't enough to land a good PF; but I think this one's got a chance because I think they'll be hard pressed to get one of the pieces they're looking for. Then it becomes a question of taking a decent package or letting him walk for nothing.

At some point, having 37 former executives sprinkled around the league has got to pay off for the Spurs.

[elemento]

I didn't see your proposal TD, but if it doesn't include the BIG 3 or Leonard, it's obviously worth a look no doubt.

It's hard to tell if the Clips want to trade Bledsoe to improve the team or if Millsap is willing to be a 6th man off the bench or if he wants to be starter. The Clips idea simply states needs. The Jazz needs a PG of the future and the Clips needs help in the front-court. In the end, it takes only one GM who likes a player to make a trade happen. Who would think that an expiring Chase Budinger would bring a mid 1st round pick in this stacked draft. (probably a request from Aldeman but still).

It takes only 1 GM to like Splitter, Neal or even Blair to make the trade happen. Sometimes Spurs fans don't value our players much, but other GMs do. Hill is perfect example of that.

Anyway, we will see if SA brings someone. I'd love to see it happening.

[Paranoid Pop]

How about Brandan Wright from Dallas? Doubt Dallas would trade with us but could be a decent signing next summer.

[TD 21]

I didn't see your proposal TD, but if it doesn't include the BIG 3 or Leonard, it's obviously worth a look no doubt.

It's hard to tell if the Clips want to trade Bledsoe to improve the team or if Millsap is willing to be a 6th man off the bench or if he wants to be starter. The Clips idea simply states needs. The Jazz needs a PG of the future and the Clips needs help in the front-court. In the end, it takes only one GM who likes a player to make a trade happen. Who would think that an expiring Chase Budinger would bring a mid 1st round pick in this stacked draft. (probably a request from Aldeman but still).

It takes only 1 GM to like Splitter, Neal or even Blair to make the trade happen. Sometimes Spurs fans don't value our players much, but other GMs do. Hill is perfect example of that.

Anyway, we will see if SA brings someone. I'd love to see it happening.

It was Diaw, Blair, Joseph, Anderson and a 1st.

I disagree. They can only part with Splitter if they're getting a solid backup center back, otherwise he's off limits and so is Green. Not because he's some amazing talent, but because they don't have another guard to replace what he brings. Even Diaw, I'm only including him because of the player they'd be getting back and the fact that they couldn't consistently play together anyway.

I think the Clippers would at the very least strongly consider it, if Millsap had at least another year on his contract. But given that they'd be hard pressed to re-sign him, it's probably unlikely. The Jazz would almost certainly do it though.

[Chinook]

It was Diaw, Blair, Joseph, Anderson and a 1st.

I don't think it's going to be possible to trade away that combination of players. Diaw can't be traded until the 15th. Anderson can't be traded until, ironically enough, the trade deadline. He almost certainly will be cut by then, because the tenth of January is when all contracts become guaranteed. I think he'll get waived within a week from today, maybe two weeks when Jack comes back.

[Chinook]

Also, Diaw (and Mills) has a de-facto no-trade clause this year, due to him having a player option at the end of the season. He can choose to negate a trade in order to keep his early-Bird rights.

[TD 21]

I don't think it's going to be possible to trade away that combination of players. Diaw can't be traded until the 15th. Anderson can't be traded until, ironically enough, the trade deadline. He almost certainly will be cut by then, because the tenth of January is when all contracts become guaranteed. I think he'll get waived within a week from today, maybe two weeks when Jack comes back.

I know Diaw can't be traded now. If this were to happen, it would happen close to or (more likely) at the deadline. Anderson will almost certainly be long gone by then, but he's irrelevant; it's his salary that's needed. So replace him with De Colo and bring him back to be the 13th man.

Even if Diaw had the power to block this, how many players want to be on a team that wants to trade them? If he did though, the Spurs could still offer Jackson, Blair, Joseph and a 1st for Millsap and Bell. I don't see the Jazz doing it though.