General Trades Discussion

[Mel_13]

Yep, me too. I was just saying that that's how trading for Varejao would be possible. It's possible Pop would prefer the veteran Varejao over Williams anyway, and he may not like Splitter enough to give him another chance in the playoffs. But my money says if the Spurs like Williams at all, and Minnesota offers him to San Antonio for any combination of the Spurs' backup guards and Bonner or Blair, the Spurs would take that deal and run.

I'd hope so. Also, if you're going to trade for Williams, you want to get him as soon as possible so that an informed decision on his 4th year option can be made when October rolls around.

[Chinook]

I'd hope so. Also, if you're going to trade for Williams, you want to get him as soon as possible so that an informed decision on his 4th year option can be made when October rolls around.

Sure, but the Wolves will probably wait as long as they can to try to get the best value they can. Neal and Bonner may be a fair trade, but Minnesota would probably view it as settling. It's a deal they may make at the deadline if they feel Neal (or Green) could make them into a playoff team. Until then, they'll entertain notions of Williams being the headliner to land a superstar.

Also, I think they'll be plenty of time to evaluate Williams. If the Spurs were to trade for him, they'd at least try to play him as part of the regular rotation. Actually, I would assume he'd be starting next to Duncan within a couple of weeks.

[Mel_13]

You're probably right. Williams represents the right mix of risk/reward for the Spurs. I'd love to see them pick him up.

[Chinook]

I just want to see Pop get some elite young talent. He hasn't had that since Parker (maybe Leonard, too, but I'm not sure). It would be great to see Williams, Vesely or Sanders getting tutored by the Big Three. , even Beasley could turn it around if he got some actual leadership in his life, not that I'm suggesting adding that head case or anything.

[Mel_13]

I'd draw the line at Beasley. I don't believe that what's going on in his head is fixable.

[Chinook]

Haha, yeah, probably.

I just got caught up watching Youtube videos of him from 2010 after you brought him up in the Gortat discussion yesterday. He looked incredible for those first couple of months with Minnesota. I found myself wondering how the Wolves could fail to get it done with all that talent they had. It ended up being a bad situation for everyone there except Love. I don't see how Phoenix is any better for him. You add in Wade being his first mentor and Beasley's instability, and I don't see how it was ever going to work out for him.

[Bruno]

^Agree, I don't think Beasley can be saved.

Williams' biggest issue is that he wanted to play SF and Minny also wanted him to do that transition. For the little I've watched from him, it's clear that Williams should play PF. That's the spot where he could eb a special player with his athleticism and skills.

The deciding factor of a trade with Williams could be the situation around Roy. If he is able to come back, Minny won't really need a SG. If he retires, they will need one and they will also free a roster spot to do a 1 for 2 trade without needing to waive a player.

[TD 21]

I wonder if that rumor (Patterson for Neal + Blair) had some merit. Morey tried to show-case him, he had a few good games but now he got back to earth. Pretty sure they would not mind moving him. (D-Mo and Jones have a higher ceiling and they still have to deal with White's mental issues). They could use Neal, but Blair would probably go to a 3rd team.

For San Antonio the pros would be : His mid-range is absolutely money. If the Spurs want to replicate the Mcdyess role he would be perfect. The good thing is that he could be paired with Duncan or Splitter and the spacing would not be affected. His defense is also pretty good. Man to man and in terms of help defense.

The cons - he is not a great rebounder and his post moves are very basic. The post moves would not be needed much in SA, but his poor rebounding skills would be a problem. Obviously Asik a great rebounder and crash the boards in elite level, but that can't be an excuse to average only 5 boards in 30 minutes.

Anyway, considering his pros and cons I think he would be a good fit. He is ready to contribute right now and SA would have him for cheap (rookie contract) this season and the next.

How do you guys feel about him ? Agree or disagree with the description ?

I don't see the Spurs giving up Blair and Neal for Patterson (I do think the Rockets would probably do this though). I agree that he'd be a better fit than Blair, but if they're going to part with Neal, it's got to be for a surefire starting PF or at least someone with the potential to be in the near future. Patterson has got third big written all over him.

If the Spurs want to replicate the McDyess role, they can just sign the real McDyess. Yes, he's old and hasn't played in over a year and a half, but it doesn't make sense to give up Neal for a guy to play the McDyess role when they can sign the real thing.


http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-...GlvbnM-;_ylv=3

And Derrick Williams – the No. 2 overall pick – will be getting one DNP after another on the Wolves' bench until Kahn finally trades him for next to nothing in the near future.


Sounds more like prediction than rumor, but who knows? I'm not particularly high on Williams and think he probably ends up as a Harrington type off the bench, but if they'd accept Neal/Bonner, it'd be difficult to say no.

[Bruno]

There is today in the E-N an article about whether or not Spurs will keep James Anderson:
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/s...on-4109943.php

This Pop quote is noteworthy because of its consequences:

But, it's also a business, so you've got to look at the money end of it, taxes and how close we are, because we're not going to pay (luxury) tax. We're not going to do that

First, whenever looking at trade scenarios, look also if the trade keep Spurs below the tax because it seems to be a strict constraint.

Second, even if Spurs keep Anderson, Spurs will still be $406K below the tax. That's a comfortable margin even when you factor that Spurs payroll might rise a little because of unlikely bonuses. What is really behind that quote is that Spurs want to keep a financial margin for a potential future trade. Spurs haven't set their mind on standing pat which is a very good news to me. Despite their great record, Spurs remain weak at the PF slot.

[elemento]

I don't see the Spurs giving up Blair and Neal for Patterson (I do think the Rockets would probably do this though). I agree that he'd be a better fit than Blair, but if they're going to part with Neal, it's got to be for a surefire starting PF or at least someone with the potential to be in the near future. Patterson has got third big written all over him.

If the Spurs want to replicate the McDyess role, they can just sign the real McDyess. Yes, he's old and hasn't played in over a year and a half, but it doesn't make sense to give up Neal for a guy to play the McDyess role when they can sign the real thing.


http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-...GlvbnM-;_ylv=3

And Derrick Williams – the No. 2 overall pick – will be getting one DNP after another on the Wolves' bench until Kahn finally trades him for next to nothing in the near future.


Sounds more like prediction than rumor, but who knows? I'm not particularly high on Williams and think he probably ends up as a Harrington type off the bench, but if they'd accept Neal/Bonner, it'd be difficult to say no.

I disagree. I think the Spurs FO would do it (Blair + Neal for Patterson). Blair is gone and I don't think they give a damn about him anymore and even though Neal is a good backup guard, SA can live without him with Manu and Green.
I am not against bringing Dice again, but the difference between Dice and Patterson are 15 years of age. Dice would be good to give SA 10-15 minutes a night off the bench. Patterson could play way more and he could start with Duncan if Pop feels that the Diaw/Splitter is the best way to improve the front-court bench. They're simple awesome as a combo.

I am not against Williams either and I would pull the trigger in both cases, but so far Derrick Williams has showed way less than Patterson. And he can't complain that he didn't have the chance, because Love was hurt and he was still playing bad. I think Williams would end up as a stretch BIG in SA and i would be fine with it.

[TD 21]

I disagree. I think the Spurs FO would do it (Blair + Neal for Patterson). Blair is gone and I don't think they give a damn about him anymore and even though Neal is a good backup guard, SA can live without him with Manu and Green.
I am not against bringing Dice again, but the difference between Dice and Patterson are 15 years of age. Dice would be good to give SA 10-15 minutes a night off the bench. Patterson could play way more and he could start with Duncan if Pop feels that the Diaw/Splitter is the best way to improve the front-court bench. They're simple awesome as a combo.

I am not against Williams either and I would pull the trigger in both cases, but so far Derrick Williams has showed way less than Patterson. And he can't complain that he didn't have the chance, because Love was hurt and he was still playing bad. I think Williams would end up as a stretch BIG in SA and i would be fine with it.

Maybe they would; who knows? All summer, I thought they could "live without him (Neal)" too, but I'm not so sure anymore. For as much scoring depth as this team has, if they trade him, who's the fourth option? Who's the guy who helps shoulder the load when one of the big three is injured or when two of them are having an off night? If half of those wins turn into losses, that's the difference between being a 1 seed and a 4 seed and still having a chance to win a playoff game beyond the 1st round or having virtually no chance. Trading Neal puts the onus squarely on Ginobili to stay healthy and score consistently or on Leonard to show that he can create/score consistently.

Ideally, you'd like more, but all they need is 10-15 mpg off the bench. Between Duncan, Diaw, Splitter and small ball, they don't need McDyess to reprise his previous role. In a vacuum, I'd prefer Patterson over Blair/McDyess; I'm just not sure he upgrades them enough at PF to risk weakening them in another area.

I disagree. The gap between Patterson and Williams isn't vast and Williams obviously has the higher upside.

[Paranoid Pop]

Tim Tiago
Vesely Diaw
SJax Manu
KY De Colo
TP Neal

We have to start our best defenders SJax and KY imo, Green is holding us back in a way imo.

[ace3g]

^Agree, I don't think Beasley can be saved.

Williams' biggest issue is that he wanted to play SF and Minny also wanted him to do that transition. For the little I've watched from him, it's clear that Williams should play PF. That's the spot where he could eb a special player with his athleticism and skills.

The deciding factor of a trade with Williams could be the situation around Roy. If he is able to come back, Minny won't really need a SG. If he retires, they will need one and they will also free a roster spot to do a 1 for 2 trade without needing to waive a player.

Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA Hmm. RT @Twolves_PR: Brandon Roy will address the media today after practice. Availability scheduled for 12:45 p.m. on the main court.

Timberwolves PR ‏@Twolves_PR
Just a general availability session. Hasn't talked since his surgery. @talkhoops Ruh roh. Wonder what that means for Roy.

--

Doesn't look like a retirement speech according the Wolves PR, but should get some answers how the surgery went and how he feels.

[ace3g]

NBA's top trade candidates

Most NBA players who signed contracts during the past offseason become eligible on Saturday to be traded. What that means: With a much larger pool of players available for deals, NBA general managers will start spending a lot more time on the phone in the coming weeks. "It's about to heat up on Dec. 15," one Eastern Conference general manager said. "Conversations are definitely happening because once Dec. 15 comes, the pool increases.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba--nb...000418190.html

[Bruno]

It would be so much better for Spurs to do a trade now rather than one at the trade deadline because it will give them enough time to work with the new player(s) before the playoffs.

I do hope Spurs are among active teams on the phones.

[ace3g]

It would be so much better for Spurs to do a trade now rather than one at the trade deadline because it will give them enough time to work with the new player(s) before the playoffs.

I do hope Spurs are among active teams on the phones.

Especially since the chances of acquiring a player with knowledge of the Spurs system is less likely (Diaw and SJAX).

Derrick Williams is more attractive now because not only can he be a mobile 4, knock on wood, but if Kawhi or SJAX got injured again, he would help in our SF depth as well.

[elemento]

Zach Lowe ‏@ZachLowe_NBA Hmm. RT @Twolves_PR: Brandon Roy will address the media today after practice. Availability scheduled for 12:45 p.m. on the main court.

Timberwolves PR ‏@Twolves_PR
Just a general availability session. Hasn't talked since his surgery. @talkhoops Ruh roh. Wonder what that means for Roy.

--

Doesn't look like a retirement speech according the Wolves PR, but should get some answers how the surgery went and how he feels.

The other SG they have, Malcom Lee, has huge knee problems as well :

Joan Niesen ‏@JoanNiesen
Malcolm Lee with chrondal injury to right knee. Left Wednesday night's game with knee pain. Out indefinitely.

2m Jerry Zgoda ‏@JerryZgoda
Lee has had knee issues, of course. Chrondal condition is degenerative, involving cartilage damage

Still think they could make a move for a SG. Going small with Ridnour is not helping Minny at all. Austin Rivers just had a career high with 27 points against Minny's small back-court.

[Paranoid Pop]

Trade machine says that Green can't be moved before January 15th. A package of Green + Blair seems easy to trade salary wise, not sure it's would get enough interest to get what we need. If we do trade Neal, who serves as a filler? Blair+someone? or Bonbon? I think Bonbon is ok as a fifth big...

Vesely is my first choice, value can't get any lower he's playing like an absolute scrub, he's shooting something like 0.100 at the FT line but I see the potential somehow, it's might bit of a longshot and too much of a project for the FO but it's the most exciting target to me.

Williams was put in a way better situation to succeed than Vesely and failed but he's showing way more at this point, so that's a lower risk lower reward option and that means there's probably way more chances it actually happens.

Neal could work straight up for someone like Brandan Wright but the thought of Gary dropping bombs on us in a Dallas uniform is nightmarish, I wouldn't trade him in the west bar none tbh... One of our other back up PG + pick for Wright could be good but I doubt Dallas would care for any of our scrubs, well I can't come up with a trade that makes sense but I'd like to have him if the price was reasonable...

[raybies]

Stephen Jackson and Gary Neal for Luke ridnour and Derrick Williams.
Saves spurs two million, gets that back up point we sorely need. , gives us a 3-4 player that we can teach defense and give time with his offense. Doesn't tie our money up past 2015.
Minny gets vets and salary cap relief.

Maybe Derrick and kawhi building blocks with Cory.

What do u think?

[TD 21]

I don't think whether Roy returns or not will be an impediment to a deal, nor the Wolves lacking a roster spot to make a two for one trade. In the case of the former, Budinger is out long term and Howard is a fringe player at this point, so they could play Shved/Neal at SG and Kirilenko/Roy at SF. Given Roy's declining athleticism and mobility, that might be his best position defensively now anyway. In the case of the latter, even before his latest injury setback, Lee was an easy and obvious cut.

Really, I think it just comes down to whether they see Neal/Bonner as sufficient value. I was skeptical at first, but now I'm thinking they might, for two reasons . . .

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-...000418190.html

"They will move him in a heartbeat if they could," one rival team executive said. "I don't think the coaches are that high on him. You have to get something for him now because the longer he sits, the more people think he can't play."


1. This is the second time in less than a week that it's been inferred that he could be had for relatively little.

2. They're last in 3-point shooting (at a putrid 30%).

[szkorhetz]

I don't think whether Roy returns or not will be an impediment to a deal, nor the Wolves lacking a roster spot to make a two for one trade. In the case of the former, Budinger is out long term and Howard is a fringe player at this point, so they could play Shved/Neal at SG and Kirilenko/Roy at SF. Given Roy's declining athleticism and mobility, that might be his best position defensively now anyway. In the case of the latter, even before his latest injury setback, Lee was an easy and obvious cut.

Really, I think it just comes down to whether they see Neal/Bonner as sufficient value. I was skeptical at first, but now I'm thinking they might, for two reasons . . .

http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/nba-...000418190.html

"They will move him in a heartbeat if they could," one rival team executive said. "I don't think the coaches are that high on him. You have to get something for him now because the longer he sits, the more people think he can't play."


1. This is the second time in less than a week that it's been inferred that he could be had for relatively little.

2. They're last in 3-point shooting (at a putrid 30%).

I would hate to give up Neal, but getting rid of Bonner and the acquisition of somebody really, really athletic could really make this a good deal for both teams.
He won't defend Gasol or Ibaka well, but come on, he could do a decent job on LeBron in the Finals.
Do it, Pop.

With Rubio back, Derrick is +22, 12 point, five boards in 12 minutes...

[ace3g]

Well I guess it is no coincidence that immediately with the return of Rubio, Derrick Williams has one of his best games of the season. It would bode well that he does well with creative passers, something the Spurs have a plethora of.

[MaNu4Tres]

Well I guess it is no coincidence that immediately with the return of Rubio, Derrick Williams has one of his best games of the season. It would bode well that he does well with creative passers, something the Spurs have a plethora of.

It probably is coincidence, tbh. One game, small sample ... relax. Derrick Williams, a talented player athletically, won't all of a sudden become the Larry Bird of fundamentals with the addition of Rubio. He is who he is-- an athletic freak-- who is not only fundamentally challenged, but he can't shoot either. Rubio won't change that. The only thing that will change is maybe more cherry picking/transition opportunities if Rubio is the recipient of long/crisp outlet passes after fast/long rebounds (that is if Williams leaks out; that is if Williams gets significant minutes with Rubio; which won't happen with Kirlenko playing great ball). Once you consider all the stars that need to be lined-up, it's obvious Rubio won't make a significant impact on Williams production.

In the half-court, Rubio's creativity may make a small beneficial bump in DW's offensive production, but it won't be significant or anything substancial. To explain, in high pick and roll scenarios w/Rubio--there could be more back door/back-cut opportunities from the corner in particular. But those opportunities won't be significant enough to turn the tables in regards of his production to the T'Wolves or hypothetically the Spurs.

Williams is who he is. Justifying the Spurs should be interested in him by saying Spurs have the play-makers to make the most of his athletic ability is pretty naive. There's a reason why strictly athletic players like Jefferson, Pops Mensa, and James White didn't stick with the Spurs (even if they did have the play-makers).

[Mel_13]

Well I guess it is no coincidence that immediately with the return of Rubio, Derrick Williams has one of his best games of the season. It would bode well that he does well with creative passers, something the Spurs have a plethora of.

It probably is coincidence, tbh. One game, small sample ... relax. Derrick Williams, a talented player athletically, won't all of a sudden become the Larry Bird of fundamentals with the addition of Rubio. He is who he is-- an athletic freak-- who is not only fundamentally challenged, but he can't shoot either. Rubio won't change that. The only thing that will change is maybe more cherry picking/transition opportunities if Rubio is the recipient of long/crisp outlet passes after fast/long rebounds (that is if Williams leaks out; that is if Williams gets significant minutes with Rubio; which won't happen with Kirlenko playing great ball). Once you consider all the stars that need to be lined-up, it's obvious Rubio won't make a significant impact on Williams production.

Love didn't play last night and Williams only got 19 minutes in an overtime game. Still no minutes for Williams when Love and AK47 are both healthy.

[Paranoid Pop]

Ed Davis is playing so well for the Raptors... Too bad we don't have the assets to trade for Bargnani because they have to be thinking about trading him at this point.