General Trades Discussion

[Chinook]

saw a random trade idea on twitter: Blair for Jason Collins

Isn't he starting for the Celtics right now? If so, that seems like a weird player to trade away for Blair. Boston isn't really in a position to be sizing down right now.

[TD 21]

Well then, TD 21 would you say that Jack and Neal for Ridnour and Williams is a good-looking deal for Minnesota? If the Spurs feel confident that someone like Gelabale can step in as the back up three or that Williams can indeed play some minutes there, that trade should give the Wolves what they want. I also think the Adelman is the type of coach that Jack can respect.

I'd still hope they move Bonner, though.

I wouldn't. Even though Williams alone may only fetch a player the caliber of Neal, Williams has starter potential, while Neal doesn't. And Jackson, despite being in a contract year, probably wouldn't be engaged and is looking perilously close to done either way.

I'm not going to pretend to have kept up with Gelabale in recent years, but I doubt the Spurs would feel confident in him stepping right in to their rotation, nor having to incorporate three players total into it on the fly. I also don't think they'd have any interest in Ridnour, who's an atrocious defender and not enough of a scoring threat to allow Ginobili to start.

Beyond the obvious, the great thing about a Williams for Neal and Bonner (and maybe a 1st or a 1st for a 2nd) swap is, despite having the potential to upgrade the team, it wouldn't change the dynamic of it. Mills, who's similar to Neal, would become a rotation player and Williams would become the fourth big/2nd stretch four.

[Chinook]

I wouldn't. Even though Williams alone may only fetch a player the caliber of Neal, Williams has starter potential, while Neal doesn't. And Jackson, despite being in a contract year, probably wouldn't be engaged and is looking perilously close to done either way.

I'm not going to pretend to have kept up with Gelabale in recent years, but I doubt the Spurs would feel confident in him stepping right in to their rotation, nor having to incorporate three players total into it on the fly. I also don't think they'd have any interest in Ridnour, who's an atrocious defender and not enough of a scoring threat to allow Ginobili to start.

Beyond the obvious, the great thing about a Williams for Neal and Bonner (and maybe a 1st or a 1st for a 2nd) swap is, despite having the potential to upgrade the team, it wouldn't change the dynamic of it. Mills, who's similar to Neal, would become a rotation player and Williams would become the fourth big/2nd stretch four.

That's always the risk with trades when you're a contending team. Even with all of the Spurs' warts, they're still a top team. It can get much worse.

Jack deserves the benefit of the doubt that he'll bounce back, but if he can't cut it for the Spurs, though, they're best served to move him. Getting the backup point situation and potentially getting a good prospect is a better use of cap space, in my opinion, than hoping to land a marquee free agent. Ridnour has flaws, but he seems able to run an offense, which is something we can't really say about Neal, De Colo or Mills. If he's playing bad defense, well, he seems right on par with the other potential back ups.

I don't want to see the Spurs shaken up unless they really show they can't hang with elite teams and that a trade can help them get there. So I definitely agree with you that Neal and Bonner for Williams is ideal. But with Jack out more time, the need for reliable wing depth is pronounced right now.

[Paranoid Pop]

Well then, TD 21 would you say that Jack and Neal for Ridnour and Williams is a good-looking deal for Minnesota? If the Spurs feel confident that someone like Gelabale can step in as the back up three or that Williams can indeed play some minutes there, that trade should give the Wolves what they want. I also think the Adelman is the type of coach that Jack can respect.

I'd still hope they move Bonner, though.

I think if you replace Ridnour by Roy, it's more likely. Everyone knows he's gonna retire at this point and if we're gonna take back a bad contract, 5M/2yrs is pretty acceptable. Boris can play some 3 anyway and we have already plenty of option at backup PG.

Also I changed my mind on Hawes, we don't need another unathletic/soft big even tho I like him. We need a Williams, Ayon, Ilyasova...

Also I would still consider trading Splitter, I know it sounds outrageous to some of you but to play next to Tim, defense and rebounding are more important than being able to finish at the rim... Splitter gets what, 6 or 7 shots a night with the new rotation... Imo that's wasted ressources right there.

Something like : http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bfvvqq7

Of course the ideal solution woud be to add someone without losing one of Tiago and Boris but I'd consider something like this...

[Chinook]

I think if you replace Ridnour by Roy, it's more likely. Everyone knows he's gonna retire at this point and if we're gonna take back a bad contract, 5M/2yrs is pretty acceptable. Boris can play some 3 anyway and we have already plenty of option at backup PG.

Also I changed my mind on Hawes, we don't need another unathletic/soft big even tho I like him. We need a Williams, Ayon, Ilyasova...

Also I would still consider trading Splitter, I know it sounds outrageous to some of you but to play next to Tim, defense and rebounding are more important than being able to finish at the rim... Splitter gets what, 6 or 7 shots a night with the new rotation... Imo that's wasted ressources right there.

Something like : http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bfvvqq7

Of course the ideal solution woud be to add someone without losing one of Tiago and Boris but I'd consider something like this...

Roy is essentially an expiring contract, as next year is non-guaranteed. If it's about saving money, I think the Wolves will push for Barea, the Spurs will push for Roy, and they'll settle on Ridnour.

I think Splitter is doing fine in his new role. He gets a lot of touches from Ginobili and De Colo. Their slumps have hurt Splitter's numbers a bit. Once the Spurs figure out the guard rotation, Splitter's numbers will be better.

To me, I think it's more important to get another big that can play with both Duncan and Splitter. Duncan's shot give Splitter room to work, but the reverse is not true. A third big needs to have a shot so that he can stay out of Splitter's way but still be a threat to score.

As for your trade: I like Okafor as a defensive prospect, and I've sure he'd be great next to Duncan if he has any mobility left. Good news is that his trade value is down, because he has been having a down year, and the Wizards are probably really receptive to getting out of his contract. But the main reason why he's expendable now is because Seraphin has been playing really well. I don't think it makes sense to deal both of them. Tiago is better than Kevin right now, but he's also a free agent, and one who probably will not want to stay in that situation if he can help it. Maybe switching Bonner with Splitter and Seraphin with Singleton is a better option. If Splitter's allowed to return to the bench, then it may help balance the lineups out more.

In any event, I think Washington is definitely going to be a seller again.

[Richie]

If we do a trade which sacrifices our cap space this summer, we need to do a blockbuster to make it worth our while disrupting the team chemistry of a winning team, not for a draft bust like Williams.

Lakers are losing. Pau is the odd man out. We have everything the Lakers need to run D'Antonis system, considering we've basically been a run and gun 3's team the last few years

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aozspuc

Pau for Jackson, Bonner, Neal, Mills

The Lakers get 4 three point threats, including the all important stretch 4 in Bonner which Howard needs to operate in the paint. Mills and Neal give them better back up point guards that Steve Blake, and Jackson is a legit defender and 3 point threat to allow World Peace to rest.

Unless someone decided to give up a superstar for Gasol, I don't think they could get a better set of role players than they could get from us to fit D'Antonis system.

Spurs depth chart would read

Parker/De Colo
Green/Manu
Leonard/??
Pau/Diaw
Duncan/Splitter

[LittleCriminal]

Trade Idea.

Spurs send Blair and Bonner to The Pelicans for R.Lopez....

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=abhca7g

Sprinkle Neal,Joesph,DeColo,Mills and or Draft Picks as a sweetener If the Spurs had to add some sugar into the mix.
Works money wise.

[Russo21]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d2udvfr

Hawes has 6 inches on Blair, better defense, better rebounding and a better shot.
Richardson still gives you 11 points 5 rebounds and 1.5 steals. A perfect backup for young Leonard.

Philli get two expiring contracts that could help massively building around their young talented team.

[Richie]

Hawes is only 24 and a quality player, why would the Sixers give him away for basically nothing? They have cap space this summer anyway with the Bynum expiring if they don't want to give him a big contact

[Paranoid Pop]

Roy is essentially an expiring contract, as next year is non-guaranteed. If it's about saving money, I think the Wolves will push for Barea, the Spurs will push for Roy, and they'll settle on Ridnour. I think Splitter is doing fine in his new role. He gets a lot of touches from Ginobili and De Colo. Their slumps have hurt Splitter's numbers a bit. Once the Spurs figure out the guard rotation, Splitter's numbers will be better. To me, I think it's more important to get another big that can play with both Duncan and Splitter. Duncan's shot give Splitter room to work, but the reverse is not true. A third big needs to have a shot so that he can stay out of Splitter's way but still be a threat to score. As for your trade: I like Okafor as a defensive prospect, and I've sure he'd be great next to Duncan if he has any mobility left. Good news is that his trade value is down, because he has been having a down year, and the Wizards are probably really receptive to getting out of his contract. But the main reason why he's expendable now is because Seraphin has been playing really well. I don't think it makes sense to deal both of them. Tiago is better than Kevin right now, but he's also a free agent, and one who probably will not want to stay in that situation if he can help it. Maybe switching Bonner with Splitter and Seraphin with Singleton is a better option. If Splitter's allowed to return to the bench, then it may help balance the lineups out more. In any event, I think Washington is definitely going to be a seller again.

Singleton might be a good idea actually but I believe his value is still pretty high even tho he's getting DNPCDs right now but that might change, his value may go down, thus it could make sense for them to deal him right now. Seems like there an insider article on that very subject but I have yet to find the full article...

[Chinook]

Singleton might be a good idea actually but I believe his value is still pretty high even tho he's getting DNPCDs right now but that might change, his value may go down, thus it could make sense for them to deal him right now. Seems like there an insider article on that very subject but I have yet to find the full article...

Singleton has been better than Vesely from what I've seen. If there were a better way to make the salaries work, he would be a better piece for the Wizards to include than Singleton. But the value of saving on Okafor's contract, of getting a player like Neal, and maybe of another first-rounder may be enough for them to get pull the trigger.

[Chinook]

If we do a trade which sacrifices our cap space this summer, we need to do a blockbuster to make it worth our while disrupting the team chemistry of a winning team, not for a draft bust like Williams.

Lakers are losing. Pau is the odd man out. We have everything the Lakers need to run D'Antonis system, considering we've basically been a run and gun 3's team the last few years

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aozspuc

Pau for Jackson, Bonner, Neal, Mills

The Lakers get 4 three point threats, including the all important stretch 4 in Bonner which Howard needs to operate in the paint. Mills and Neal give them better back up point guards that Steve Blake, and Jackson is a legit defender and 3 point threat to allow World Peace to rest.

Unless someone decided to give up a superstar for Gasol, I don't think they could get a better set of role players than they could get from us to fit D'Antonis system.

Spurs depth chart would read

Parker/De Colo
Green/Manu
Leonard/??
Pau/Diaw
Duncan/Splitter

I wouldn't do that deal, even if the Lakers wanted to. The Spurs are not going into the tax this year, according to Pop, and this deal drags them almost to the apron when you factor in the minimum contracts needed to meet roster requirements. It also places a huge salary burden on the Spurs next season, which would hurt their quest to get a legitimate back up to Leonard. Also, the Spurs' depth would be gone, and there'd be little money to replace it.

Getting a player like Williams now is really a good use of cap space. Worst comes to worst, they can move him in June or July for nothing and still have the space for free agents. I don't think he's been a bust at all, though. He's had some really good games, and Pop seems to think he would've been a good fit for the system. Also, the Spurs would still have the full MLE and some S&T options under that deal, which isn't true after the proposed Gasol trade.

[szkorhetz]

I wouldn't do that deal, even if the Lakers wanted to. The Spurs are not going into the tax this year, according to Pop, and this deal drags them almost to the apron when you factor in the minimum contracts needed to meet roster requirements. It also places a huge salary burden on the Spurs next season, which would hurt their quest to get a legitimate back up to Leonard. Also, the Spurs' depth would be gone, and there'd be little money to replace it.

Getting a player like Williams now is really a good use of cap space. Worst comes to worst, they can move him in June or July for nothing and still have the space for free agents. I don't think he's been a bust at all, though. He's had some really good games, and Pop seems to think he would've been a good fit for the system. Also, the Spurs would still have the full MLE and some S&T options under that deal, which isn't true after the proposed Gasol trade.

Actually, that Gasol trade would make us the biggest contenders in the NBA. The best backcourt with the best frontcourt. I would definitely do that trade. No one could stop us... but really. Gasol is a very good passer, good mid-range shooter, great defender, other than Josh Smith, he is the best fit. I doubt Lakers would do that, but as a Spurs fan, who want to give everything to Timmy in his last seasons, this is a trade, which we should have accept in a heartbeat.

[TD 21]

That's always the risk with trades when you're a contending team. Even with all of the Spurs' warts, they're still a top team. It can get much worse.

Jack deserves the benefit of the doubt that he'll bounce back, but if he can't cut it for the Spurs, though, they're best served to move him. Getting the backup point situation and potentially getting a good prospect is a better use of cap space, in my opinion, than hoping to land a marquee free agent. Ridnour has flaws, but he seems able to run an offense, which is something we can't really say about Neal, De Colo or Mills. If he's playing bad defense, well, he seems right on par with the other potential back ups.

I don't want to see the Spurs shaken up unless they really show they can't hang with elite teams and that a trade can help them get there. So I definitely agree with you that Neal and Bonner for Williams is ideal. But with Jack out more time, the need for reliable wing depth is pronounced right now.

Yeah, but the reward isn't high enough in this case to take that risk. Plus, I think the could acquire Williams without having to resort to parting with Jackson and taking on Ridnour. By doing that, they'd only be creating a bigger hole than the one they'd be potentially fixing. Basically, it comes down to what would you prefer: Gelabale as the backup SF or Mills as the backup PG? I'd prefer the latter.

But we'll only know for certain if Jackson "can't cut it for the Spurs" in the playoffs. I'm not saying Jackson is unmovable, but he's like Green, in that if they're to move him, they've got to get a replacement back. Not just another body at SF, but someone who basically brings the exact same qualities.

[Chinook]

I don't know much about Gelabale. Bruno (or anyone else who would know), does he seem like someone who could step in an help the Spurs at small-forward this year? I'd say he has to be pretty bad to make playing Mills consistently at the backup point a better scenario.

I hope you're right about Williams. More than that, I hope Jack gets healthy soon and that the Spurs can avoid playing Green at the three. Maybe the Spurs could sign Gelabale soon as an injury fill-in, and if he performs well and Jack isn't by the deadline, they can consider trading Jack. I'd hate to see his contract go to waste.

[Chinook]

We may have to cool it on the Williams talk. Kevin Love just re-fractured his hand.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/88...res-right-hand

[TD 21]

To clarify, I'm not saying I'm sure the Spurs can get Williams for Neal, Bonner and maybe a 1st, I'm just saying, if they do get him, I think it would be for that.

Jackson's injury isn't serious though and they wouldn't play Gelabale ahead of him, so they wouldn't find out by the deadline whether he can be the primary backup SF or not, unless of course Leonard or Jackson get a relatively long term injury again. Even then, they'd probably do what they did the first time that happened, which was play Green and Ginobili more at SF, Neal at SG and De Colo and Mills at PG. I know what you mean though, in terms of Jackson's contract going to waste.

[Chinook]

We may have to cool it on the Williams talk. Kevin Love just re-fractured his hand.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/88...res-right-hand

To add to this, Williams had a good game today with 18 and 6 in 18 minutes:

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400278214

He shot uncharacteristically well, though. We'll get a chance to see who Williams really is over these next few weeks.

[Bruno]

I don't know much about Gelabale. Bruno (or anyone else who would know), does he seem like someone who could step in an help the Spurs at small-forward this year?

Well, I really like Gelabale so I'm little biased but I think he could step in for a NBA team and be a solid wingman. He is a well rounded smart player that does very little mistakes. He won't have a big impact of the game because he isn't talented enough but he will give you some solid fundamentally sound minutes.

[ace3g]

Gelabale has provision in the current contract to derogate from it to 30 January this year. McCandless is confident that this time will receive an offer from the NBA. One of the teams that seriously thought about turning it into storage was Minnesota Timberwolves. Eventually, the club decided to Lazar Hayward.

Mickael Gelabale, who in late 2012, he moved to the Croatian Cedevity to Valencia, Spain, wants to return to the NBA. Agent Bill McCandless said basketball all 30 teams from the league that his client is ready to accept up to 10-day contract.

http://probasket.sk/news/hiszpania-gelabale-chce-wrocic-do-nba-47151?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&ut m_campaign=twitter




forgot I already posted that in the old Gelabale thread:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=1#post6258780

[Paranoid Pop]

Yeah, but the reward isn't high enough in this case to take that risk. Plus, I think the could acquire Williams without having to resort to parting with Jackson and taking on Ridnour. By doing that, they'd only be creating a bigger hole than the one they'd be potentially fixing. Basically, it comes down to what would you prefer: Gelabale as the backup SF or Mills as the backup PG? I'd prefer the latter. But we'll only know for certain if Jackson "can't cut it for the Spurs" in the playoffs. I'm not saying Jackson is unmovable, but he's like Green, in that if they're to move him, they've got to get a replacement back. Not just another body at SF, but someone who basically brings the exact same qualities.

I completely disagree. Diaw can play SF, he's not any slower than Sjax... and Manu can play SG with the first unit and a second unit of De Colo Neal or Mills is perfectly fonctionnal. We have internal solutions for theses "holes" that are very good or very promising. The Lovie injury is indeed very bad news and tbh I'm not hopeful we'll get anything of worth without trading the untradable Green and Splitter... But since they are untradable they will win us a championship so I don't worry.............................................

[Paranoid Pop]

If I was the FO I'd try to do Green (+Bonbon) for Ilyasova no matter what it takes pick wise.

[szkorhetz]

Are you still high on Ilya?

[Paranoid Pop]

Are you still high on Ilya?

Yes, he's pretty much the perfect PF to play next to Tim.

[look_at_g_shred]

Trade Idea.

Spurs send Blair and Bonner to The Pelicans for R.Lopez....

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=abhca7g

Sprinkle Neal,Joesph,DeColo,Mills and or Draft Picks as a sweetener If the Spurs had to add some sugar into the mix.
Works money wise.

I saw this guy <b>Jimmy Butler</b> Friday night against the Heat, and man was I impressed. He played outstanding defense on Lebron; not to mention, his rebounding capablities (offensive and defesnsive). I would trade Blair for this guy in a heartbeat. The Trade Machine said it was a Success. Thoughts? http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=belrawx