General Trades Discussion

[Russo21]

Then what about http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=annncyn after the trade we sign Samuels and go back to the finals..


Cavs got to non guarenteed deals.

That's interesting. I say all 3 teams improve in that to.

[Chinook]

The more I think about it, the less I'd be surprised if the Spurs' plan is to try to trade Bonner on draft night. Especially if the Spurs don't like anyone who's there at their pick, I could see them moving Bonner's mostly non-guaranteed deal to a team that wants to cut salary. If Minnesota hasn't found a taker for Williams then, they may be willing to part with him for Bonner and the first. A team like Washington may actually be willing to give away a second to trade Vesely.

Moveover, the Spurs could trade Bonner for about $6 Million in return salaries next year, whereas they can only take back about $4 Million right now. That makes a big difference, since adding those $2 Million would include players who got the full MLE, which teams often regret giving to players later. Trading for Bonner could potentially save teams $5 Million dollars in salary going into the off-season, which could be a big deal to teams looking to get in on the free-agent bonanza. I think Bonner's value is maximized then. I'd rather trade him for $6 Million than keep him and save $2.6 Million by waiving him.

[Mel_13]

The more I think about it, the less I'd be surprised if the Spurs' plan is to try to trade Bonner on draft night. Especially if the Spurs don't like anyone who's there at their pick, I could see them moving Bonner's mostly non-guaranteed deal to a team that wants to cut salary. If Minnesota hasn't found a taker for Williams then, they may be willing to part with him for Bonner and the first. A team like Washington may actually be willing to give away a second to trade Vesely.

Moveover, the Spurs could trade Bonner for about $6 Million in return salaries next year, whereas they can only take back about $4 Million right now. That makes a big difference, since adding those $2 Million would include players who got the full MLE, which teams often regret giving to players later. Trading for Bonner could potentially save teams $5 Million dollars in salary going into the off-season, which could be a big deal to teams looking to get in on the free-agent bonanza. I think Bonner's value is maximized then. I'd rather trade him for $6 Million than keep him and save $2.6 Million by waiving him.

I'd guess that you're assuming that the Spurs won't take back any significant extra salary if they trade Bonner now (3.6M out, 4M back), whereas they could get take back 150% of Bonner's 4M 2013-14 salary (4M out, 6M back). The only problem with that scenario is that the decision on paying off Bonner for 2013-14 must be made by June 29, 2013. After that date, his full 2013-14 salary is guaranteed. Trades made before June 30th use the 2012-13 numbers and rules.

[Chinook]

I'd guess that you're assuming that the Spurs won't take back any significant extra salary if they trade Bonner now (3.6M out, 4M back), whereas they could get take back 150% of Bonner's 4M 2013-14 salary (4M out, 6M back). The only problem with that scenario is that the decision on paying off Bonner for 2013-14 must be made by June 29, 2013. After that date, his full 2013-14 salary is guaranteed. Trades made before June 30th use the 2012-13 numbers and rules.

Thanks for that clarification. Why the did they set that date for guaranteeing the contract? It seems idiotic to take away that option for your team, and I doubt Bonner would have minded the extra day of uncertainty.

Still, it's a negligible difference. The point still stands that the Spurs can get more back by waiting until after the tax snapshot date to trade him. Since the draft is earlier than the 29th this year, the Spurs can still do a draft-night trade, but they can only take back $5.5 Million.

EDIT: Or do the tax rules still apply even after the snapshot date has passed?

[Mel_13]

Thanks for that clarification. Why the did they set that date for guaranteeing the contract? It seems idiotic to take away that option for your team, and I doubt Bonner would have minded the extra day of uncertainty.

Still, it's a negligible difference. The point still stands that the Spurs can get more back by waiting until after the tax snapshot date to trade him. Since the draft is earlier than the 29th this year, the Spurs can still do a draft-night trade, but they can only take back $5.5 Million.

EDIT: Or do the tax rules still apply even after the snapshot date has passed?

Well, I checked with Coon's FAQ and now I'm confused. He says that:

When determining the amount of tax a team owes, the league uses its team salary (see question number 14) on the date of its last regular season game (i.e., if a player is traded away before the end of the season, then none of his salary is taxed), with the following adjustments:

Any "unlikely bonuses" (see question number 72) that were actually earned are added to the team salary.
Any "likely bonuses" (see question number 72) that were not earned are subtracted from the team salary.
Any trade bonuses (see question number 95) for players received in trade after the last regular season game are added to the team salary.
Any amounts from settlements of grievances are added to the team salary.
For players who signed as free agents (i.e., not draft picks) under the current CBA, and make less than the two-year minimum salary, the minimum salary for a two-year veteran is used in place of their actual salary.
For minimum salary players whose salary is partially paid by the league (see question number 16) only the amount paid by the team (the two-year minimum salary) is taxed.
The salaries of players waived via the Amnesty provision (see question number 67) are exempt from the luxury tax.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q21

Still pretty sure that any trade made before June 30th uses the 2012-13 salaries, but now I'm not sure how such a trade would affect the 2012-13 tax calculation. Although, thinking back to the RJ trade, the Spurs did take back more salary, but I'm not sure if that extra amount would have put them over the threshhold.

Probably have to wait for Bruno to weigh in.

[Chinook]

Although, thinking back to the RJ trade, the Spurs did take back more salary, but I'm not sure if that extra amount would have put them over the threshhold.

They did? I thought including Ford's deal took care of that extra amount.

[Mel_13]

They did? I thought including Ford's deal took care of that extra amount.

When they acquired him from the Bucks. The trade was made on June 23, 2009. 11.8M went out and 13.2M came back in 2008-09 salaries.

[Chinook]

When they acquired him from the Bucks. The trade was made on June 23, 2009. 11.8M went out and 13.2M came back in 2008-09 salaries.

Oh, you meant THAT trade. Sorry. I like to remember the Spurs getting rid of him a lot more than them acquiring him .

Bruno would know more about this than I would, but I think the snap shot date means the Spurs did not have to play taxes for the 2008-2009 season (or at least any extra tax due to Jefferson's deal). They didn't have to pay his salary that year, so it would surprise me if they had to pay the tax for it.

I don't think trading Bonner for more money in June would affect the tax payment for this season. I was more wondering about trade-exception rules when asking. If the rule still apply, then the Spurs can take back only about $4.6 Million (125 percent plus 100k). If they don't, then the Spurs can take back about 900k more. I don't think they have to worry about paying tax on the additional salary, either way.

[Mel_13]

Oh, you meant THAT trade. Sorry. I like to remember the Spurs getting rid of him a lot more than them acquiring him .

Bruno would know more about this than I would, but I think the snap shot date means the Spurs did not have to play taxes for the 2008-2009 season (or at least any extra tax due to Jefferson's deal). They didn't have to pay his salary that year, so it would surprise me if they had to pay the tax for it.

I don't think trading Bonner for more money in June would affect the tax payment for this season. I was more wondering about trade-exception rules when asking. If the rule still apply, then the Spurs can take back only about $4.6 Million (125 percent plus 100k). If they don't, then the Spurs can take back about 900k more. I don't think they have to worry about paying tax on the additional salary, either way.

I think you're right about the tax, but I believe that they're limited by the 125% rule until July.

Bruno?

[Bruno]

So, If Spurs do a trade in June, it won't impact their luxury tax situation since, as Mel_13 said, the luxury tax is calculated at the end of the regular season. However, Spurs would still had to respect trade/CBA rules: if the trade put him over the tax, they won't be able to get more than 125%+100K and they will still have a hard cap $4M above the tax.

[Chinook]

Thanks, Bruno. That means the Spurs are limited to trading Bonner for about $4.6 Million on draft night... Unless, of course, they salary dump Blair before then, in which case they can go right up to the tax. Without Blair and with no new contracts on the roster, the Spurs could take back about $5 Million in salary (maybe a little more depending on Baynes' deal). That's still a good deal of money, and it would be enough to get Williams.

[Mel_13]

Thanks, Bruno.

[Paranoid Pop]

They should trade Green+any midget for Derrick Williams already, play KY at the 2 and start Boris at the 3.

TP
KY
Boris
Williams or Tiago depending of the matchup
Tim

Bench :

whoever
Manu
Sjax
Williams or Tiago
Baynes

At the 2 KY would be a monster, plus it's more convenient to switch him on both PGs and SFs.

[look_at_g_shred]

Only if this could happen ..Sanders and Baynes coming off the bench would be sick!!!http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d6ytnay

[look_at_g_shred]

Or this http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aovbap4

[Strategic]

Or this http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=aovbap4

Like it, just too bad these things don't happen. Maybe if the Spurs added in Blair for a future consideration?

[look_at_g_shred]

Like it, just too bad these things don't happen. Maybe if the Spurs added in Blair for a future consideration?

Yeah maybe.

[look_at_g_shred]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cnd8kv8

[TheCerebral1]

What about trading for a guy like Tobias Harris. I'm not sure what could lure him in but something around Neal/Joseph and Blair.

[szkorhetz]

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cnd8kv8

The bucks would not give up Sanders for nothing, not even for a lot of talent.

[Werdsniper2]

REGGIE EVANS:


Spurs are ranked 21st overall in rebounding. Why not grab a rebounding mastermind in Evans, especially when he seems so readily available?

I feel like Blair + someone cheap could do the trick.

[Paranoid Pop]

REGGIE EVANS:


Spurs are ranked 21st overall in rebounding. Why not grab a rebounding mastermind in Evans, especially when he seems so readily available?

I feel like Blair + someone cheap could do the trick.

Don't see it and even then we now have Baynes on the way who is a great rebounder himself with better size, we need a PF now I think, someone who ideally can shoot/rebound/defend.

[Richie]

Don't see it and even then we now have Baynes on the way who is a great rebounder himself with better size, we need a PF now I think, someone who ideally can shoot/rebound/defend.

Big men who can shoot, rebound and defend command max salaries these days.

[Obiwonginobili]

what about derrick favors? something to this extent: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a8mpm6x Utah is short on PG's, derrick favors isn't getting any PT behind millsap and jefferson. They get something in return plus 3pt scoring.

[Chinook]

No to Evans: The Net traded for him in the off-season, and he's been one of their most underrated players. I don't think they'd give him up for spare parts.

Favors is getting a lot of playing time right now, to the extent that Millsap is supposedly unhappy that he's losing some himself. The Jazz traded Deron Williams for him; they're not likely to give him up for the Spurs' trash, either.