Mo Williams is injured right now. It's also rumored that the Jazz want a younger point guard. So trying to get a player like Jennings makes sense. They have Mo to offer to the Bucks as a player who can help for the stretch run when he gets healthy. The Bucks would probably demand that the Jazz take back Gooden's contract for Jennings in addition to offering sweeteners. My recommendation to you, Seventyniner is this: you want to see about how San Antonio can get in on that trade, start with this base:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=cspbx9u
and work from there.
He means the one he proposed earlier that involves trading Jack to the Jazz.
That's more far-fetched than the one you're talking about.Maybe something based around Jax to Utah, Mo Williams and Danny Green (or better, Neal) to Milwaukee, Ilyasova and Mbah a Moute to San Antonio?
Ok. He was mocking himself. I didn't catch that on first read. Thanks.
Would the Spurs be more interested in Ilyasova or Mbah a Moute, given the choice? Which of the two would Milwaukee prefer to move if they could only move one?
Personally, I think the Spurs could use Mbah a Moute more as someone to throw against Durant in a smallball lineup (with the big 3 and Kawhi or Green).
Is this what you meant, Chinook? http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=d7etw2z
Then again, Utah probably says no to that, and I don't think there are enough draft picks or sweeteners the Spurs could put in to change Utah's mind.
I tried a few that involved the Spurs getting Ilyasova, Mbah a Moute, and Gooden, but that that puts the Spurs into the tax this year (I couldn't send enough salary out without completely gutting the team).
I'll have to put a lot more thought into a third team that makes sense. I don't think Utah can get it done.
That's better, but I'd still have a couple of concerns:
1) After Baynes' deal gets done, the Spurs will have less room under the tax. That trade does put them over. If Milwaukee wanted Mills instead of Neal, that would keep the Spurs under (it's really close), but that's probably not the case.
2) This trade gives the Bucks tons of cap space, but not much in the way of incentives. Jennings himself would probably require two first-round picks to get the Bucks to part with him. Ilyasova makes the potential cost a lot higher. Switching Neal and Blair may help this factor, or maybe even switching Blair for De Colo or Joseph if they have any value for Milwaukee.
All in all, it's a pretty well-balanced trade. I don't know if any of the teams would think that it is a good deal for them, but I don't think anyone really gets screwed (provided Milwaukee gets two or three first-rounders). If the Bucks are desperate for cap space and are not sold on giving Jennings a max offer, they may consider moving him for that package.
Maybe something like this: http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=avphunb
It's an idea, but to me it seems like too big of a trade for the Spurs to do. Also, it'd be hard to see how Kawhi, Splitter, Mbah a Moute, Iylasova and Diaw could all get court time. I honestly couldn't see the Spurs wanting to get both of those players. I think Mbah a Moute would be more likely, as I don't see him having a big price tag at all. I think this could get it done:
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=9wzsdlq
I think he'd be a fine fit with the Spurs if he can shoot better than he has been recently. He's a good defender, but he hurts the offense a lot when he's on the floor.
EDIT: I think Milwaukee would rather move Mbah a Moute, as they still have hope that Ilyasova can play the three. Mbah a Moute is a four, and that makes him a lot less value, due to the rise of Henson.
I can definitely say this: your posts show that quality is better than quan y. I hadn't considered the Baynes signing and tax hit. You're right that the Bucks would need a lot to part with Jennings. There are two other aspects to that, though.
1) Jennings is about to be a RFA, and the Bucks might think that he'll get an offer they won't want to match.
2) Having Millsap at the end of the season is beneficial in two ways: you get to offer him 7.5% raises and a 5th year instead of 4.5% raises and only 4 years (if you want to keep him), and if he really wants to leave, you can sign-and-trade him to his preferred destination and get a fat trade exception out of the deal. That second factor might be enticing to the Bucks.
Good point about the almost embarrassing depth at forward that first trade would create. It would certainly move Splitter back to the bench (except against LAL or MEM) and make the Baynes signing much less useful in the short term.
Your second deal is an orgasm waiting to happen for gnsfs. I had really thought that Mbah a Moute was a SF, though. If his only value is as a smallball 4, it limits his usefulness. If he can defend mobile or small 4s well (afaik he's a defensive specialist), he could fit alongside scorers like Manu, Neal, and Jackson off the bench.
It's also hard to imagine the Spurs making a major deal without trying to address backup PG. I thought about trying to work Earl Watson to the Spurs in those trades with the Jazz and Bucks. If his defense hasn't slipped, he'd be an ideal backup, like a better, more experienced version of Cory Joseph, with better passing and worse scoring.
In the Spurs eyes, I highly doubt Ersan is held in a high enough regard to justify taking back his dumb contract.
2011-12 Ersan earned that contract. 2012-13 Ersan has yet to live up to it, but 3yrs/24M for the 2011-12 version isn't a bad deal. He'll be turning 29 at the end of that 3rd year, so you're buying what should be his best years.
According to the numbers Mbah a Moute has never really been that good of a defender. I know stats don't really capture the value of a defensive specialist, but according the Basketball Reference (which has some weird ways to calculating advanced stats, I've heard) he has a defensive rating of 105, which is about middle of the road. He doesn't stand out in total rebound percentage (156/440), block percentage (212), steal percentage (229) or defensive win shares (187). Add that to his poor offensive rating (bottom quarter) and low true shooting percentage (he is one of the lowest-ranked rotation players), and you can see why I think the Bucks may want out of his deal.
But the Bucks gave him that contract because he has been really strong on both sides of the ball in previous years. His offensive rating was actually pretty good (132/442) in 2009-2010. He was above average in rebounding (140th in TRB%), blocks (143rd in Blk%) and … very strong in DWS (53rd ). He was even able to post an average TS% (214th). He also shot 35 percent from three that year.
It was those numbers that convinced the Bucks that he could play the three in the NBA. But that has really not been the case. He couldn’t even play spot minutes there when Dunleavy was hurt earlier this season. Since it looks like Ilyasova is going through a similar situation right now, Mbah a Moute is someone to watch. If Ilyasova has to move to the four, then that makes the big rotation very crowded. Henson has played too well to get pushed out of the rotation by Mbah a Moute, and Ilyasova is still putting up good enough numbers to where he’d probably start next to Sanders.
Matching Denver’s offer seems to have backfired on the Bucks. It’s only a matter of time before Mbah a Moute is pushed out of the rotation. He just doesn’t have much value, even as a defensive specialist, now that Skiles is gone. But the San Antonio, he might return to form. If he could get back to shooting 35 percent from three, he’d be an asset. I’ve heard he can defend at least three positions, and that’s always of value against the Thunder and Heat. I’d make a deal for Bonner, Neal, and maybe a second-round pick or the rights to Hanga. I wouldn’t go beyond that; there’s just too big of a risk that he’d be a liability.
I think his contract is fine. I just don't think the Spurs are willing to give up Green to get him.
If the Spurs have cap room this summer, I fully expect them to fill it with trades instead of with signings. There will be some good players available for teams trying to get into the free-agent fest that's going to happen in July.
You've made frequent reference to Ilyasova as a 3. Are you basing this on watching a lot of Bucks games? I haven't, so I would defer to someone who has, but when you look at the line-ups when he has started, it looks like he's being using as a 4. Also, when you check 82games (I know it's not perfect), they show Ilyasova playing all his minutes at the 4 while Mbah a Moute is shown as splitting his minutes equally between the 3 and the 4.
I've watch a couple of Bucks games to scout, but no where near enough to be considered an authority on the matter. They were right after everyone was starting to come back from injury, so that may have shaken up the lineups. But I do know that right now Mbah a Moute starts at the four and Ilyasova the three, but since they often share the court together, it's possible that such a distinction doesn't matter. Since Ilyasova does more of the ball-handling and shooting, I'd consider him the three. And Mbah a Moute is usually not paired too long with two other bigs.
If they've made the transition to Ilyasova at the four already, then I think it's just a matter of time. With a new coach, I imagine everyone's trying to see what works. It's possible they don't trust their wings enough. I still think Mbah a Moute is struggling too much from the perimeter to actually be considered a wing, though. We'll see what happens.
Thanks.
In the Lakers game right now, Mbah a Moute is guarding Howard. That's interesting, and it would be more impressive if Dwight weren't dunking on him.
EDIT: And they're using Nash to guard him ... and he isn't really doing anything against him, even though their giving him the ball every time down the court.
I can't believe McGee is not openly on the market. They gave him big contract and he's buried on the bench too. He can't be happy at all. With Wilson Chandler healthy now too, could get worse (small ball)
Bruno is there any specific procedure to go through to set up a Trade Target thread? I see there used to be some on here, and it may help and it may help if there were specific ones for people like Williams, Mbah a Moute, Ilyasova and the rest.
Anyone can submit a thread in the Think Tank, you just won't see it posted until a mod approves it. Just use one of the old Trade Target threads for the format and start threads on the players you named. As long as it makes sense, it will be approved and posted.
Thanks. I'll work on some tomorrow. Any requests for targets?
Just went through the rosters to make a list of PGs with some NBA experience that might be available. Didn't go the next step of trying to imagine realistic trades, but here's a list to start brainstorming from:
Devin Harris
Nate Robinson
Beno
Ridnour or Barea
Seb Telfair
Nolan Smith or Ronnie Price
John Lucas III or Lowry or Calderon
There should be a reasonable target or two in there somewhere.
I'll see what I can do.Just went through the rosters to make a list of PGs with some NBA experience that might be available. Didn't go the next step of trying to imagine realistic trades, but here's a list to start brainstorming from:
Devin Harris
Nate Robinson
Beno
Ridnour or Barea
Seb Telfair
Nolan Smith or Ronnie Price
John Lucas III or Lowry or Calderon
There should be a reasonable target or two in there somewhere.
No specific procedure. You can start a thread and I'll approve it, you can post in this thread a list of trade targets with a mention for me like you just did, you can pm me...
If you start of a thread, no need to bother formatting it because it only takes me few seconds doing it. If you aren't a well recognized poster, I'll start a new thread instead of approving yours. It's nothing personal or me wanting to take credit for your find. It's just that, if you end up being put on the all ignore list, the thread and all its content will disappear.
PS: There is a thread where all the "Trade Target" are listed: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124694
For example, Ilyasova still has a "Trade Target" thread about him.
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...ended_One_Game
Josh Smith was kicked out of Tuesday's practice by Larry Drew, according to a source.
Smith is suspended for Wednesday's game for conduct detrimental to the team.
Ken Berger @KBergCBS Smith's agent speaks with Danny Ferry, stops short of trade request. In other words, let the Josh-a-palooza begin. #NBA http://cbsprt.co/UtSAlD
Pushes the Spurs above the tax. That's the only think keeping this from being a good trade for both teams.
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