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  1. #51
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    For dice to get started, he needs minutes and touches or a few plays run for him

    everytime ive seen him on court he rarely touches the ball or any plays for hiim at all...while other guys just auto shoots

    everytime duncan gets outplayed he just allows them to overplay him duncan should just get rid of that knee brace, he didnt have to play with it last season...

  2. #52
    YOU JUST GOT THE BUISNESS SamoanTD's Avatar
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    I really liked bogans he was moving with a purpose last night yes hes awful at offense but thats not why hes here so I can live with that but he was really nice on defence. I wanted to see ratliff in there but its ok they probably saving him for tonight when we play a squad with some REAL size. Jefferson I dont really like to much I mean I know your mad but not ALL the blame should go on blair I mean jefferson was barely or not even staying in front of his man and he expects like blair to be some super stopper or something lol. Bt all in all this was a tough one to swallow just the fact that we all know our team can play a load better than this lol.

  3. #53
    Veteran kace's Avatar
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    We looked just awful. Tim is slow and gimpy and has no lift. We got scored on ine th paint easily; I think Theo could have helped with that. If Bogans is getting 11 minutes that is a BAD sign. Finley and Bonner are soft. Poor chemistry. McDyess looked slow and old. Manu out of rhythm. Just YUCK.
    your sig with the truck wheel is just awful... i hope you don't think it's funny, but i fear you do.

  4. #54
    Don't stop believin' Dex's Avatar
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    I'm officially on the Matt Bonner Hate Wagon. I wanted to give this guy a chance, but here's the problem:

    Last season, Bonner was a top 5 three point shooter. He was hitting his shots at the most consistent pace of his career, and he was still a give-and-take kind of player. Despite being one of the league's best long bombers, he still managed to be below average due to his lack of consistent post game, defense, and rebounding.

    Even if Matt were to miraculously repeat his shooting from last season, he'd still be an average-to-below-average player. And I don't see him being able to pull that off again. Is that really want we want starting for this squad, when you've got better options just waiting on the bench?

    When we had Bowen starting, it was all about getting the other team in a funk and disrupting their offense early. Now with the traffic cones known as Michael Finley and Matt Bonner, all we're doing is sparking the other teams doobie and spotting them ten points.

  5. #55
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    I just can't help missing Bowen for the whole game last night when we couldn't make a stop. Even a 39-year-old Bowen will help us defensively. His offense won't be worse than Bogans'.

  6. #56
    Believe. Rev Hill's Avatar
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    I agree it's early, but I definitely agree the Finley/Bonner thing isn't working, particularly Bonner. It's very painful to watch Bonner out there because you just know he isn't going to give you much at all. As much as I would like to see him succeed, he isn't doing much. His 3pt shooting has been off, he doesn't rebound, he doesn't move well on defense, he doesn't get to the line, he doesn't move well without the ball, he doesn't block shots....too may "doesn'ts" to deserve major minutes. I think now would be a good time to see what Haislip can provide. I see him in a Robert Horry role. At least me may be able to get some boards and block some shots which nobody can seem to do on the Spurs. He is athetic. He can also spot up for the 3.

    Sit Bonner, play Haislip...it can't hurt.

  7. #57
    Win. Whatever it Takes Whisky Dog's Avatar
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    This does not look like a Spurs team at all.

    There looks to be something very wrong chemstry wise, they don't look like they are on the same page or even really like each other much judging by their looks and body language.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there is conflict behind the scenes - they look like the Clipper or Warriors or Knicks when those teams had conflicts of personality.

  8. #58
    The Legend Grows da_suns_fan's Avatar
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    They need to replace Ginobili. He just cant do what they need him to do anymore.

    btw - I was AMAZED at how quickly Spurs fans dismissed Bruce Bowen. As if any player in the league was more frustrating to play against or got away with more calls. The Spurs defense is now average.

  9. #59
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    I'm with you on most of what you said. Hill's the only exception. To me it doesn't appear that he can run the offense. Maybe that will come. I think he's a talented player...he just doesn't look like a point guard who can be turned to in pressure situations.
    Come on... Hill is the future CP3, we have to trade Parker for Biedrins and let Hill being our 1st PG he will put 20 8 3 at 50% FG...

  10. #60
    Veteran AFBlue's Avatar
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    This does not look like a Spurs team at all.

    There looks to be something very wrong chemstry wise, they don't look like they are on the same page or even really like each other much judging by their looks and body language.

    I wouldn't be surprised if there is conflict behind the scenes - they look like the Clipper or Warriors or Knicks when those teams had conflicts of personality.
    You don't build chemistry overnight. Teams and players take time to jell and this year it's especially challenging because the added pieces are expected to contribute right away.

    I sincerely doubt there will be much conflict behind the scenes, because all of the players are good character guys. Spurs just won't be worried or overreact to a couple losses like fans will.

  11. #61
    Veteran AFBlue's Avatar
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    On Hill...my biggest problem with him was his defense, his supposed specialty. He got routinely beat off the dribble, picked off, missed rotations and failed to use his length and athleticism to his advantage.

    I actually was impressed with his early offensive aggressiveness, but once he started struggling, I think it got in his head.

    Just a poor overall performance, but I think that's honestly to be expected from a second-year PG.

  12. #62
    selbstverständlich Agloco's Avatar
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    I would like to have seen Theo for at least 10-15 minutes. I'm sure that would have slowed down Williams and Boozer a bit anyway.

  13. #63
    selbstverständlich Agloco's Avatar
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    They need to replace Ginobili. He just cant do what they need him to do anymore.

    btw - I was AMAZED at how quickly Spurs fans dismissed Bruce Bowen. As if any player in the league was more frustrating to play against or got away with more calls. The Spurs defense is now average.
    You mean like what he did against the Hornets and Kings?

  14. #64
    Veteran AFBlue's Avatar
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    One more thought...

    I have to echo the sentiment that it's time to change up the starting lineup. Finley should be the backup 3, not the starting 2. As for Bonner...he needs to be benched because his defense (or lack thereof) sets the Spurs back from the get-go.

    Whether or not that starter is Blair, he needs to continue to see his minutes go up...he's the most productive big outside of Duncan right now.

  15. #65
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Knowing Pop, he'll give the Finley+Bonner starting lineup one more game. If the Spurs lose tonight against Portland, expect Pop to mix up the starting lineup over the weekend and debut something new on Monday.

    Finley+Bonner was always going to be temporary but I think Pop wanted it to last more than four games. Eventually, you gotta think McDyess will start. Who knows with Finley, though . . .

  16. #66
    Veteran AFBlue's Avatar
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    Knowing Pop, he'll give the Finley+Bonner starting lineup one more game. If the Spurs lose tonight against Portland, expect Pop to mix up the starting lineup over the weekend and debut something new on Monday.

    Finley+Bonner was always going to be temporary but I think Pop wanted it to last more than four games. Eventually, you gotta think McDyess will start. Who knows with Finley, though . . .
    I just don't understand the Finley move...

    To start the game the Spurs have two 6'7 225lb forwards, and then for long stretches they roll with two 6'5 200lb guards. They're just begging to get exploited on mismatches throughout the contest.

    Whether it's Mason or Manu, someone other than Finley needs to start alongside RJ. Obviously I'm preaching to the choir, but it boggles my mind that this isn't clearly evident to a basketball genius like Pop.

  17. #67
    NostraSpurMus phxspurfan's Avatar
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    Knowing Pop, he'll give the Finley+Bonner starting lineup one more game. If the Spurs lose tonight against Portland, expect Pop to mix up the starting lineup over the weekend and debut something new on Monday.

    Finley+Bonner was always going to be temporary but I think Pop wanted it to last more than four games. Eventually, you gotta think McDyess will start. Who knows with Finley, though . . .
    Who would you rather have Pop start than Finley? Sure he's a turnstile on D but I don't see Kobe on this team. And we all know Manu can't handle 30 minutes a night for 82 games. And RMJ is like Finley with a less reliable J right now.

  18. #68
    Real Warrior Warlord23's Avatar
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    ^^ I don't care who starts. SG/SF minutes are interchangeable and need to be spread out between Manu/RJ/Mason/Hairston with situational use of Bogans or Hill based on matchups.

  19. #69
    Veteran AFBlue's Avatar
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    Who would you rather have Pop start than Finley? Sure he's a turnstile on D but I don't see Kobe on this team. And we all know Manu can't handle 30 minutes a night for 82 games. And RMJ is like Finley with a less reliable J right now.
    At least Roger Mason Jr. is a shooting guard! Finley doesn't have the speed or athleticism to guard perimeter players anymore...he's a 3, it's that simple.

    And the Spurs already have a starting 3-man in Jefferson. So, move Mason to the starting lineup as a SG and bring Finley off the bench as RJs backup. I don't understand how that doesn't make sense.

  20. #70
    Veteran AFBlue's Avatar
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    ^^ I don't care who starts. SG/SF minutes are interchangeable and need to be spread out between Manu/RJ/Mason/Hairston with situational use of Bogans or Hill based on matchups.
    Disagree...as I said before, trotting out Fin/RJ is begging to get beat by quicker perimeter players, and trotting out Mason/Manu is begging to get beat by bigger forwards.

  21. #71
    5. timvp's Avatar
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    Who would you rather have Pop start than Finley?
    RMJ, Manu, Hill, Hairston, Bogans, Bowen . . .

    We already know what Finley can bring. And it's not enough. At this point of his career, there is only downside. He's not going to become anything more than a streaky shooter who brings nothing else to the table other than veteran leadership.

    At least with someone like RMJ there is upside. Even if Finley = RMJ right now, RMJ has room to grow while Finley will either stay the same or get worse.

    Like I've always said ... Finley is a spot role is fine. Finley as a placeholder when surrounded by quality defensive talent is fine. But Finley getting consistent minutes when he's surrounded by non-elite defenders is a recipe for disaster.

  22. #72
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    After four days of rest, the Spurs traveled to Utah and took on a Jazz team that desperately needed a win. From the beginning, the Jazz played with more energy, more toughness and more urgency and handily defeated the Spurs by a final score of 113-99.

    With the Spurs up 14-12 halfway through the first quarter, the wheels fell off. The Jazz outscored the Spurs 20-8 the rest of the period. From that point on, San Antonio never really made it much of a contest.

    The Jazz entered the game 1-3 and were coming off two bitter defeats. Carlos Boozer, specifically, was starting to feel the heat. You have to give Utah credit for playing a very good game. Boozer and Deron Williams played fantastic and it was obvious that they came to this game with playoff intensity.

    It'd be easy to blame the poor performance of the Spurs on rust ... but rust doesn't account for getting physically manhandled or the multiple mental lapses. If anything, this game showed that the Spurs have a long ways to go before they can claim to be true championship contenders.

    Tim Duncan

    30:12 minutes, 15 points, 13 rebounds, 3 blocks, 2 assists
    5-for-10 from the field, 5-for-8 at the line


    It wasn't a very pretty game for Tim Duncan. Offensively, he started off very poor but eventually got into a groove. Once he upped his assertiveness on the low blocks, he was able to be effective. Defensively, Duncan was decent. He protected the rim well but didn't play very good individual defense. Duncan was also slow to rotate a few times. The worst news of the night is that Duncan was limping a few times. Hopefully it's not anything serious.
    -------------------------------

    Manu Ginobili

    25:02 minutes, 11 points, 2 assists, 2 rebounds, 2 steals
    3-for-8 from the field, 1-for-3 on three-pointers, 4-for-6 at the line


    For the first time this season, I didn't like the way Manu Ginobili played. He was making bad decisions with the ball almost every time he touched it. He took ill-advised shots, he forced the issue too much and seemed to break any offensive rhythm the team gained. Even the shots Ginobili made weren't very smart possessions. On the defensive end he was a bit better but he gambled too much. Basically, Ginobili played like he was totally out sync.
    -------------------------------

    Tony Parker

    28:34 minutes, 21 points, 3 assists
    6-for-14 from the field, 9-for-9 from the line


    Tony Parker had quality stretch in the second quarter. He attacked the basket relentlessly and kept the Spurs from getting blown out. But once he got in foul trouble, he struggled on both ends of the court. His attack level was decreased on offense. Defensively, he became a traffic cone. For the Spurs to win this game, they needed a much better and more consistent effort from Parker.
    -------------------------------

    Richard Jefferson

    27:24 minutes, 14 points, 3 rebounds, 3 assists
    5-for-9 from the field, 2-for-3 on three-pointers, 2-for-4 at the line


    Although his offensive stats look good on paper, Richard Jefferson had an outing to forget. His defense, or lack thereof, got him benched on a pair of occasions. The first instance was due to allowing unimpeded penetration by Wes Matthews on multiple possessions. The second benching was after Jefferson missed a short shot and then lollygagged back on transition defense. The previous three games of the season, I thought Jefferson spent plenty of energy on the defensive end. This game, he played poorly on that end and without much energy. On offense, Jefferson still is struggling to gel. Right now, he's either getting open looks off of Parker's penetration or Pop has to call a play for him to get involved. Jefferson needs to figure out how to fit in during normal offensive sets.
    -------------------------------

    Michael Finley

    16:52 minutes, 6 points, 1 blocked shot
    2-for-5 from the field, 1-for-2 on three-pointers, 1-for-2 at the line


    This was one of those games that Michael Finley just had dead legs. He wasn't jumping well. He was moving in slow motion. Going against the Jazz on their home court, that's a bad combination. He hit a couple of shots but that didn't make up for the 36-year-old looking like he was going on 56.
    -------------------------------

    Matt Bonner

    17:08 minutes, 3 points, 2 rebounds
    1-for-6 from the field, 1-for-5 on three-pointers


    You very rarely see Mehmet Okur utilize his quickness to beat his defender off the dribble and get to the rim. In fact, the only time I've seen it is when he's being defended by Matt Bonner. When defending the post, Bonner was adequate. But when Okur is getting around him with his molasses maneuvers, something isn't quite right with Bonner's defense. Add in his poor shooting and Bonner was definitely a part of the problem on Thursday night.
    -------------------------------

    Antonio McDyess

    22:36 minutes, 6 points, 4 rebounds, 1 blocked shot
    2-for-5 from the field, 2-for-2 at the line


    In the first half, Antonio McDyess wasn't helping at all. He was getting scored on in the block and was having even less success defending out on the perimeter. He also wasn't helping on the defensive boards and was a non-factor on the offensive end. In the second half, McDyess was much better. While still not at a level the Spurs need from him, it was definitely better than the forgettable play of the first two quarters.
    -------------------------------

    Roger Mason, Jr.

    17:42 minutes, 7 points, 1 steal
    3-for-6 from the field, 1-for-2 on three-pointers


    Roger Mason, Jr. was one of the few bright spots for the Spurs. He played with purpose on the offensive end and acted like he knew what he wanted. Defensively he was pressuring his man and even ventured into the passing lanes a few times. It was easily Mason's best game of the season and perhaps it was enough for Pop to give him more minutes.
    -------------------------------

    George Hill

    22:41 minutes, 2 points, 2 rebounds, 1 assist
    1-for-8 from the field


    George Hill's performance was bad. Very bad. In fact, it had to make Pop think about whether or not Hill can handle the pressure in an hostile environment. This was his first true test of his sop re season and it is safe to say that he didn't pass. When he wasn't missing shots he was having trouble running the offense or getting beat on the defensive end. Hill needs a much better showing in Portland to erase any early season doubts.
    -------------------------------

    DeJuan Blair

    21:07 minutes, 14 points, 9 rebounds, 1 block
    7-for-10 from the field


    It was another impressive statistical performance by DeJuan Blair. Though a chunk of his stats can in garbage time, he played relatively well throughout and gave consistent effort. His defense still has a long, long way to go but I'm seeing slight improvements. Offensively, he's fitting in well and seems to relish the role of the garbage man.
    -------------------------------

    Keith Bogans

    10:42 minutes, 1 turnover, 2 fouls
    1-for-5 from the field, 1-for-2 at the line


    When Pop benched Jefferson, Keith Bogans was sent into the game. It was an obvious attempt by Pop to get the message across that defense is what will earn playing time. Bogans was ugly offensively but he was very physical on defense and showed why Pop likes him. He was one of the few Spurs that wasn't getting pushed around. That said, his offense is so bad right now that it's difficult to put him on the court.
    -------------------------------

    Gregg Popovich


    I really didn't understand what Pop had in mind. Not only is he not doing a very good job of making sure the Spurs have at least two of their top four players in the game, there was even a stretch in the first half that featured none of the four. I'm also counting down the days until the end of the starting lineup that features both Finley and Bonner. Starting one of those players isn't the end of the world. Starting both? Please make it stop, Pop.
    -------------------------------

    Offense

    The Spurs scored 99 points, which should be good enough for a San Antonio squad to win the game. They shot 43.2% from the field, hit 6-of-16 three-pointers and 23-of-31 free throw attempts. Finishing with 14 assists shows that the chemistry on the offensive end is still a work in progress. But really, having 80 points heading into the fourth quarter should be plenty.

    Defense

    Defense was the downfall. The Jazz scored 113 points and most of the points were rather easy. In fact, 64 of the points were scored in the paint, while another 24 came from the free throw line. Even though the Jazz hit only 1-of-7 three-pointers, they hit 43-of-76 of their two-pointers -- or 56.6%. They also racked up 23 assists while only turning the ball over 10 times. The cherry on top was the fact that the Jazz outrebounded the Spurs 41-36, which included 14 offensive rebounds for Utah.

    Drive to Five

    With a back-to-back against Portland, the Spurs don't have any time to feel sorry for themselves. They need to come out and play with much more passion and understand that they will be playing another team on the road that desperately needs a win.

    Believe.
    I always look forward to timvp's analysis. Thanks!

    Do you think that this lineup may not gel into what they can be until next season?

    Realistically, it will take some time-hopefully the Spurs will get it together come playoff time. Right now, all the panicking and jumping off the bandwagon is much adieu about nothing.

  23. #73
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    Posted it before, I'll post it again.

    Now is the point of the season to play Hairston, Haislip and Mahinmi. This part of the year there's lots of days off for practices and little pressure in the standings, the perfect time to give those three a serious, legit look. Even one or two of them as starters.

    We all know what Bonner and Finley will bring, such as it is. They've both been in the system for at least 3 full seasons, they aren't going to forget how to play if they get brought back into the fold 25 or 30 games into the season if they other guys flame out.

    I'm expecting at some point Pop might switch Bonner out as a starter . . . but I can't see that with Finley.

    If you were told in the summer that the Spurs would start the season with a healthy Richard Jefferson, a healthy Manu Ginobili, a healthy and beginning his second full year in the system Roger Mason, a healthy George Hill coming off an incredible summer league and pre-season, and a healthy Malik Hairston coming off strong showings in SL and pre-season . . . . would you have predicted that Michael Finley would be the starter and getting anything other than garbage time minutes? It's illogical, but predictable with Pop.

  24. #74
    The Legend Grows da_suns_fan's Avatar
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    You mean like what he did against the Hornets and Kings?
    Are you serious?

  25. #75
    Out with the old... Obstructed_View's Avatar
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    Even if Matt were to miraculously repeat his shooting from last season, he'd still be an average-to-below-average player. And I don't see him being able to pull that off again. Is that really want we want starting for this squad, when you've got better options just waiting on the bench?
    So far, I haven't seen much to convince me that there's anyone in the rotation better than Bonner yet. Blair's individual defense was much improved last night, so if he can keep that up for a few games it might buy him a starting bid, but McDyess and RJ were the worst defenders on the floor last night, and it wasn't even close.

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