Start Hill-Parker Backcourt - SpursTalk.com

Kori Ellis · 11-14-2009, 10:16 PM

I get it -- they are short. But GH is long, so I don't care he's a couple inches too short. Against most teams, this backcourt would work. They play well together and it gives the Spurs more versatility offensively (plus GH's D would be good to start the game).

Also TP needs to feed RJ early in the game. RJ obviously can't work his way into the offense and needs to have the ball more from the get-go. Tony can distribute early and score late. He'll still get his.

Kori Ellis · 11-14-2009, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by init2winit

Bring a top 3 PG in the league off the bench? Bad idea.

Huh?

I just said START Parker and Hill.

kbrury · 11-14-2009, 10:18 PM

Originally Posted by init2winit

Bring a top 3 PG in the league off the bench? Bad idea.

fail

MannyIsGod · 11-14-2009, 10:19 PM

The biggest issue right now is figuring out a way to prioritize RJ's offense more than it has been in games with Tony and Tim. He's too good at drawing fouls and driving the lane to make him the fourth option to start the game.

I'm not sure if I like the idea of Hill starting because I think he actually works better with Manu than he does with Tony. The problem is that on nights when Manu struggles like tonight then the chemistry isn't there but when Manu is off they're going to have problems either way.

Plus, I honestly hate seeing RMJ run the point. I don't think he's very good at it at all.

Kori Ellis · 11-14-2009, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

The biggest issue right now is figuring out a way to prioritize RJ's offense more than it has been in games with Tony and Tim. He's too good at drawing fouls and driving the lane to make him the fourth option to start the game.

I'm not sure if I like the idea of Hill starting because I think he actually works better with Manu than he does with Tony. The problem is that on nights when Manu struggles like tonight then the chemistry isn't there but when Manu is off they're going to have problems either way.

Plus, I honestly hate seeing RMJ run the point. I don't think he's very good at it at all.

Hill actually works awesome with Tony or Manu.

Oh and RMJ should barely play. He won't be the backup PG. Just pull Hill at the 6 min mark when Manu comes in and then bring him back at the start of the second quarter when Tony goes out.

MaNu4Tres · 11-14-2009, 10:21 PM

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Also TP needs to feed RJ early in the game. RJ obviously can't work his way into the offense and needs to have the ball more from the get-go. Tony can distribute early and score late. He'll still get his.

This

Plus 1000

urunobili · 11-14-2009, 10:22 PM

how about no? Bogans in the starting lineup makes more sense...

Brazil · 11-14-2009, 10:22 PM

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Also TP needs to feed RJ early in the game. RJ obviously can't work his way into the offense and needs to have the ball more from the get-go. Tony can distribute early and score late. He'll still get his.

Tp faced the same situation with the French NT the coach asked him to start slowly to get the guys involved early and then to make his scoring effort on the second half. I think TP did that quite well during the euro, but the risk is to have a passive tony. It's not going to be an easy scenario.

TP Tim Manu and Pop need to adapt quickly to the new spurs.

Quiet Strength · 11-14-2009, 10:22 PM

I dont see why so many people want parker starting. Yeah he has been great but his defense is hurting the spurs imo. Hill on the other hand is playing great defense and brings the energy to the team every night. Why not try having parker come off the bench? Maybe it could be as good as when pop first started bringing manu off the bench.

Kori Ellis · 11-14-2009, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by urunobili

how about no? Bogans in the starting lineup makes more sense...

Bogans has had a couple good games but he's honestly not as good as he's played. I don't think he's starter material long term.

Kori Ellis · 11-14-2009, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Quiet Strength

I dont see why so many people want parker starting. Yeah he has been great but his defense is hurting the spurs imo. Hill on the other hand is playing great defense and brings the energy to the team every night. Why not try having parker come off the bench? Maybe it could be as good as when pop first started bringing manu off the bench.

kbrury · 11-14-2009, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Also TP needs to feed RJ early in the game. RJ obviously can't work his way into the offense and needs to have the ball more from the get-go. Tony can distribute early and score late. He'll still get his.

I agree they need to force the ball into RJ, it probably would never happen but I thought about bringing RJ off the bench so he can get more touches. That being said I don't want finley starting.

celldweller · 11-14-2009, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Hill actually works awesome with Tony or Manu.

Oh and RMJ should barely play. He won't be the backup PG. Just pull Hill at the 6 min mark when Manu comes in and then bring him back at the start of the second quarter when Tony goes out.

I agree on all counts. Hill played Durant solid.

So Pop likes the Parker & Hill Combo on the floor together? (see post game video) I Like it to. Hill's a good defender (looks better than Bogans IMHO), did a great, great job on Durant. I agree our eventual starting line up should be:

PF Duncan

SF Jefferson

C McDyess

SG Hill

PG Parker

With Hill taking over Point when Parker goes out (He's young and can play heavy minutes)

Finley & Mason are great guys but need to step aside for our youth movement; Hairston, Haislip, Mahinmi (why not? If not then trade him!)
Mason is young but tends to play defense like an old, old vet.

MannyIsGod · 11-14-2009, 10:25 PM

I don't believe Bogans is starting material in the long run either. I'm still waiting for the real Bogans to show his head but I'm also hoping he proves us all wrong.

timvp · 11-14-2009, 10:25 PM

Not a bad idea. I'd give Bogans a few more opportunities but if his offense bogs down the starting unit, this is something Pop could try.

Hill's defense against Durant was very good tonight. If he turns out to be the best perimeter defender against superstar swingmen, Pop might not have a choice but to do this.

td4mvp21 · 11-14-2009, 10:25 PM

I like this idea a lot

chasky · 11-14-2009, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

I'm not sure if I like the idea of Hill starting because I think he actually works better with Manu than he does with Tony. The problem is that on nights when Manu struggles like tonight then the chemistry isn't there but when Manu is off they're going to have problems either way.

All the players in the roster Works Better with Manu!!

kbrury · 11-14-2009, 10:26 PM

Some posts in here remind me of the thread where Tjastal claimed that Hill was almost better then Parker offensively.

Leetonidas · 11-14-2009, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Quiet Strength

I dont see why so many people want parker starting. Yeah he has been great but his defense is hurting the spurs imo. Hill on the other hand is playing great defense and brings the energy to the team every night. Why not try having parker come off the bench? Maybe it could be as good as when pop first started bringing manu off the bench.

The Spurs will sign D-Rob out of retirement before they assign Parker to the bench in a Ginobil role.

Quiet Strength · 11-14-2009, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

I dont see why that is so funny. Hill started the last 2 games the spurs got two very good wins.. Parker comes back and the spurs lose. I love parker as a player but right now its about winning and who is playing better all around.

timvp · 11-14-2009, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Quiet Strength

I dont see why that is so funny. Hill started the last 2 games the spurs got two very good wins.. Parker comes back and the spurs lose. I love parker as a player but right now its about winning and who is playing better all around.

Good idea. Bench Duncan and start Bonner while you're at it.

kbrury · 11-14-2009, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by Quiet Strength

I dont see why that is so funny. Hill started the last 2 games the spurs got two very good wins.. Parker comes back and the spurs lose. I love parker as a player but right now its about winning and who is playing better all around.

oh god

HarlemHeat37 · 11-14-2009, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by timvp

Not a bad idea. I'd give Bogans a few more opportunities but if his offense bogs down the starting unit, this is something Pop could try.

Hill's defense against Durant was very good tonight. If he turns out to be the best perimeter defender against superstar swingmen, Pop might not have a choice but to do this.

I know you think Hairston should get a look, timvp..

BWS-1994 · 11-14-2009, 10:29 PM

As long as Hill still has enough to relieve Parker...

Cant_Be_Faded · 11-14-2009, 10:30 PM

George's work on Durant was incredible. Remember when Pop threw him at Kobe last season?

Sure Kobe owned the crap outta him....but Pop is really starting to get a grasp on what he can get out of Hill's defense. Even though he's in year 2, he is still the most pleasant surprise of this season thus far.

Warlord23 · 11-14-2009, 10:31 PM

This might be a good short-term solution to get us some more wins but IMO it would be evading the central problem than solving it.

The problem is how will a 5-man unit with multiple offensive weapons mesh together. Whatever we do now, later in the season we are (hopefully) going to finish games with the 5-man unit of TD/Dice/RJ/Manu/TP. These guys need to understand how to keep everyone involved.

The last decade or so, the Spurs' rotation had at most 3 offensive weapons to share among. So you had at least 2 players camping out beyond the arc waiting for some open looks. And Pop's offensive playbook with his crunch-time unit was relatively simple: TD in the post, or Manu/TD high pick-n-roll or TP breaking down the D.

That was fine as long as we had Bowen and Horry standing still waiting for the pass. This year's team has different personnel. What we lost in 3-point shooting, we have gained in other areas (RJ attacking the basket, Dice and his mid-range game). Pop needs to diversify his playbook ASAP.

11-14-2009, 10:16 PM	#1
Kori Ellis Four Rings... Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $6911700 Post Count: 62,503	Start Hill-Parker Backcourt I get it -- they are short. But GH is long, so I don't care he's a couple inches too short. Against most teams, this backcourt would work. They play well together and it gives the Spurs more versatility offensively (plus GH's D would be good to start the game). Also TP needs to feed RJ early in the game. RJ obviously can't work his way into the offense and needs to have the ball more from the get-go. Tony can distribute early and score late. He'll still get his.

11-14-2009, 10:18 PM	#2
Kori Ellis Four Rings... Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $6911700 Post Count: 62,503	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt Originally Posted by init2winit Bring a top 3 PG in the league off the bench? Bad idea. Huh? I just said START Parker and Hill.

11-14-2009, 10:18 PM	#3
kbrury Veteran Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $7450 Post Count: 1,111	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt Originally Posted by init2winit Bring a top 3 PG in the league off the bench? Bad idea. fail

11-14-2009, 10:19 PM	#4
MannyIsGod I got Fristed in the ass Team: San Antonio Spurs Dynasty League 2: 34-48 (5th in Atlantic Division) SpursTalk Cash: $82425 Post Count: 35,652	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt The biggest issue right now is figuring out a way to prioritize RJ's offense more than it has been in games with Tony and Tim. He's too good at drawing fouls and driving the lane to make him the fourth option to start the game. I'm not sure if I like the idea of Hill starting because I think he actually works better with Manu than he does with Tony. The problem is that on nights when Manu struggles like tonight then the chemistry isn't there but when Manu is off they're going to have problems either way. Plus, I honestly hate seeing RMJ run the point. I don't think he's very good at it at all. _____________________________

11-14-2009, 10:21 PM	#5
Kori Ellis Four Rings... Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $6911700 Post Count: 62,503	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt Originally Posted by MannyIsGod The biggest issue right now is figuring out a way to prioritize RJ's offense more than it has been in games with Tony and Tim. He's too good at drawing fouls and driving the lane to make him the fourth option to start the game. I'm not sure if I like the idea of Hill starting because I think he actually works better with Manu than he does with Tony. The problem is that on nights when Manu struggles like tonight then the chemistry isn't there but when Manu is off they're going to have problems either way. Plus, I honestly hate seeing RMJ run the point. I don't think he's very good at it at all. Hill actually works awesome with Tony or Manu. Oh and RMJ should barely play. He won't be the backup PG. Just pull Hill at the 6 min mark when Manu comes in and then bring him back at the start of the second quarter when Tony goes out.

11-14-2009, 10:21 PM	#6
MaNu4Tres R.J for Mayor Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $443246 Post Count: 3,474	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt Originally Posted by Kori Ellis Also TP needs to feed RJ early in the game. RJ obviously can't work his way into the offense and needs to have the ball more from the get-go. Tony can distribute early and score late. He'll still get his. This Plus 1000 _____________________________

11-14-2009, 10:22 PM	#7
urunobili Spur Forever Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $87660 Post Count: 8,775	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt how about no? Bogans in the starting lineup makes more sense... _____________________________

11-14-2009, 10:22 PM	#8
Brazil REVENGE Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $197140 Post Count: 6,108	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt Originally Posted by Kori Ellis Also TP needs to feed RJ early in the game. RJ obviously can't work his way into the offense and needs to have the ball more from the get-go. Tony can distribute early and score late. He'll still get his. Tp faced the same situation with the French NT the coach asked him to start slowly to get the guys involved early and then to make his scoring effort on the second half. I think TP did that quite well during the euro, but the risk is to have a passive tony. It's not going to be an easy scenario. TP Tim Manu and Pop need to adapt quickly to the new spurs.

11-14-2009, 10:22 PM	#9
Quiet Strength Only God Can Judge Me Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $69750 Post Count: 1,250	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt I dont see why so many people want parker starting. Yeah he has been great but his defense is hurting the spurs imo. Hill on the other hand is playing great defense and brings the energy to the team every night. Why not try having parker come off the bench? Maybe it could be as good as when pop first started bringing manu off the bench.

11-14-2009, 10:23 PM	#10
Kori Ellis Four Rings... Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $6911700 Post Count: 62,503	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt Originally Posted by urunobili how about no? Bogans in the starting lineup makes more sense... Bogans has had a couple good games but he's honestly not as good as he's played. I don't think he's starter material long term.

11-14-2009, 10:24 PM	#11
Kori Ellis Four Rings... Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $6911700 Post Count: 62,503	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt Originally Posted by Quiet Strength I dont see why so many people want parker starting. Yeah he has been great but his defense is hurting the spurs imo. Hill on the other hand is playing great defense and brings the energy to the team every night. Why not try having parker come off the bench? Maybe it could be as good as when pop first started bringing manu off the bench.

11-14-2009, 10:24 PM	#13
celldweller Just agree, and shut up! Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $75000 Post Count: 507	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt Originally Posted by Kori Ellis Hill actually works awesome with Tony or Manu. Oh and RMJ should barely play. He won't be the backup PG. Just pull Hill at the 6 min mark when Manu comes in and then bring him back at the start of the second quarter when Tony goes out. I agree on all counts. Hill played Durant solid. So Pop likes the Parker & Hill Combo on the floor together? (see post game video) I Like it to. Hill's a good defender (looks better than Bogans IMHO), did a great, great job on Durant. I agree our eventual starting line up should be: PF Duncan SF Jefferson C McDyess SG Hill PG Parker With Hill taking over Point when Parker goes out (He's young and can play heavy minutes) Finley & Mason are great guys but need to step aside for our youth movement; Hairston, Haislip, Mahinmi (why not? If not then trade him!) Mason is young but tends to play defense like an old, old vet. _____________________________ YOU BET'CHA! Last edited by celldweller; 11-15-2009 at 12:47 AM..

11-14-2009, 10:25 PM	#14
MannyIsGod I got Fristed in the ass Team: San Antonio Spurs Dynasty League 2: 34-48 (5th in Atlantic Division) SpursTalk Cash: $82425 Post Count: 35,652	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt I don't believe Bogans is starting material in the long run either. I'm still waiting for the real Bogans to show his head but I'm also hoping he proves us all wrong.

11-14-2009, 10:25 PM	#15
timvp Get Refuel Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $67752 Post Count: 44,999	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt Not a bad idea. I'd give Bogans a few more opportunities but if his offense bogs down the starting unit, this is something Pop could try. Hill's defense against Durant was very good tonight. If he turns out to be the best perimeter defender against superstar swingmen, Pop might not have a choice but to do this.

11-14-2009, 10:25 PM	#16
td4mvp21 January Championship Banner? Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $33850 Post Count: 6,509	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt I like this idea a lot

11-14-2009, 10:25 PM	#17
chasky Believe. Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $16400 Post Count: 168	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt Originally Posted by MannyIsGod I'm not sure if I like the idea of Hill starting because I think he actually works better with Manu than he does with Tony. The problem is that on nights when Manu struggles like tonight then the chemistry isn't there but when Manu is off they're going to have problems either way. All the players in the roster Works Better with Manu!!

11-14-2009, 10:26 PM	#18
kbrury Veteran Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $7450 Post Count: 1,111	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt Some posts in here remind me of the thread where Tjastal claimed that Hill was almost better then Parker offensively.

11-14-2009, 10:26 PM	#19
Leetonidas Man in the Box Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $439800 Post Count: 9,317	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt Originally Posted by Quiet Strength I dont see why so many people want parker starting. Yeah he has been great but his defense is hurting the spurs imo. Hill on the other hand is playing great defense and brings the energy to the team every night. Why not try having parker come off the bench? Maybe it could be as good as when pop first started bringing manu off the bench. The Spurs will sign D-Rob out of retirement before they assign Parker to the bench in a Ginobil role. _____________________________

11-14-2009, 10:28 PM	#21
timvp Get Refuel Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $67752 Post Count: 44,999	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt Originally Posted by Quiet Strength I dont see why that is so funny. Hill started the last 2 games the spurs got two very good wins.. Parker comes back and the spurs lose. I love parker as a player but right now its about winning and who is playing better all around. Good idea. Bench Duncan and start Bonner while you're at it.

11-14-2009, 10:28 PM	#23
HarlemHeat37 UGH Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $172302 Post Count: 12,941	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt Originally Posted by timvp Not a bad idea. I'd give Bogans a few more opportunities but if his offense bogs down the starting unit, this is something Pop could try. Hill's defense against Durant was very good tonight. If he turns out to be the best perimeter defender against superstar swingmen, Pop might not have a choice but to do this. I know you think Hairston should get a look, timvp..

11-14-2009, 10:29 PM	#24
BWS-1994 3 stars and a sun Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $12800 Post Count: 513	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt As long as Hill still has enough to relieve Parker...

11-14-2009, 10:30 PM	#25
Cant_Be_Faded B12 POY owns all. Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $9900 Post Count: 22,926	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt George's work on Durant was incredible. Remember when Pop threw him at Kobe last season? Sure Kobe owned the crap outta him....but Pop is really starting to get a grasp on what he can get out of Hill's defense. Even though he's in year 2, he is still the most pleasant surprise of this season thus far. _____________________________ Longhorn Season is coming. I wanna know where tha gold at? Stooooooops! Code: Mookie2001: they say ramonce taylor makes reggie bush look like rasho

11-14-2009, 10:31 PM	#26
Warlord23 Real Warrior Team: San Antonio Spurs SpursTalk Cash: $24502 Post Count: 3,106	Re: Start Hill-Parker Backcourt This might be a good short-term solution to get us some more wins but IMO it would be evading the central problem than solving it. The problem is how will a 5-man unit with multiple offensive weapons mesh together. Whatever we do now, later in the season we are (hopefully) going to finish games with the 5-man unit of TD/Dice/RJ/Manu/TP. These guys need to understand how to keep everyone involved. The last decade or so, the Spurs' rotation had at most 3 offensive weapons to share among. So you had at least 2 players camping out beyond the arc waiting for some open looks. And Pop's offensive playbook with his crunch-time unit was relatively simple: TD in the post, or Manu/TD high pick-n-roll or TP breaking down the D. That was fine as long as we had Bowen and Horry standing still waiting for the pass. This year's team has different personnel. What we lost in 3-point shooting, we have gained in other areas (RJ attacking the basket, Dice and his mid-range game). Pop needs to diversify his playbook ASAP.

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