Official All Kobe, All The Time Thread

[Ashy Larry]

Doctor J should be in that top 10.

based on what ?


A giant fro and free throw dunks? Moses clearly was more dominant and I'd say more productive than Doc ever was ........

that 1983 Sixers team was nice and didn't get over the hump until Moses got on the squad. Sixers lost in 80 and 82 to the Lakers without Moses. Swept the Lakers in 83 with him. Dude murdered Kareem.

Andrew Toney - Still the most underrated player of all time, the Celtic Killer.

[milkshakeballa]

The first time I began to understand why he was the best was in the pre-season. In a game against the Wizards, Kobe broke the wrist on his shooting hand. He was always the first person to practice every day, arriving at least an hour and a half early. This would infuriate me because I wanted to be the first person to practice, just as I had always been at Villanova and Piscataway High in New Jersey. To add insult to injury, I lived only 10 minutes from the practice facility -- while Kobe was at least 35 minutes away.

I am ashamed to say that I was excited the day after his injury because I knew that there was no way that No. 8 (as former Laker point guard Tyronn Lue called him) would be the first to practice, if he would even be there at all.

As I walked through the training room, I became stricken with fear when I heard a ball bouncing. No, no, it couldn’t be! Yes it could. Kobe was already in a full sweat with a cast on his right arm and dribbling and shooting with his left.

As the next couple of days of practice passed, I would glance over as Phil Jackson was talking and see Kobe on the side going full speed and pulling up with his left. He was a conducting an all-out practice with himself. Lakers trainer Gary Viti, had to come in and tell Kobe to take a rest. But when Viti left, Kobe was at it again.

One day I was shooting on a side basket -- on the court that Kobe had made his own practice spot. He challenged me.

“Cele, let’s shoot," he said. "Wanna play H-O-R-S-E?”

I laughed at him. I was actually insulted that he would challenge me, a pro, to a game of horse with his left hand. After he insisted, I figured I would just whip him and prove to him that he wasn’t Superman. He couldn’t do everything.

He made shot after shot after shot. I was beginning to feel more pressure as I got each letter. First H, then O, then R, then S. I couldn’t let this man beat me with a broken shooting hand. My gosh, he was shooting threes with his left. I finally made a deep three and the stars aligned and Kobe missed. I had escaped the most embarrassing moment of my basketball life. When he missed he was infuriated.

“Come on Cele, let’s play again,” Kobe insisted

God....what a hero. All service men and women..all teachers and doctors..all role models should follow Kobe's lead ...TBH.

[TD 21]

Damn good list and totally agree with the top two. Normally most people put Wilt at #2 but Kareem's resume is on point with anyone's, including MJ.......

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Duncan
10. Hakeem


I'll put Shaq over Duncan because head to head, Shaquille's teams win the head to head battles and during that time, Shaquille was just dominant. Should have gone down as the GOAT if he had the work ethic of Mike or Kobe ........

Kobe's definitely top 15 and I would put him in the top ten. That 2001 series with the Spurs was the real NBA Finals and the best player on the floor was Kobe and it wasn't even debatable or close. Shaquille should hand over that MVP from the Sixers series and give it to Bean.

It couldn't have been because O'Neal had another top five player as a sidekick, meanwhile Duncan lacked an All-Star caliber teammate as a sidekick, could it?

I've got no problem with acknowledging O'Neal being the best or at minimum undisputed most dominant player in the league during the Lakers three peat and you could even make a case for putting him above Duncan all-time, but that is a foolish reason for doing so.

Also, about the Spurs and Lakers head to head in the playoffs, if Fisher's .4 shot never counted (and it shouldn't have, seeing as how it's impossible to catch, turn and shoot, even in one motion, during that short a span), they'd most likely be 3-3 overall in the Duncan/Bryant era, but 3-2 Spurs overall with O'Neal involved.

[HarlemHeat37]

Last time I looked, basketball has many facets. Kobe had a remarkable post season this year. Sure you can point out games or portions of games where he underachieved. Please show me one player who didn't. Why is it ALWAYS about shooting % or efficiency of one stat or another? Watch the friggen games!

You see clearly who the leader is. You haters saving grace is that Kobe shot a piss poor % as he led his team to his 5th le? Its laughable! He simply had a bad game 7 shooting and his & was down. It was suggested that Duncan had similar numbers and your argument again is soley based on offense and shooting %. No talk of the 15 rebounds? No talk of the passes to players who hit clutch shots? Passes all you haters say he would never concede? Ohhh, noooo, all we hear about is the missed shots. None of the other aspects of the game. The leadership? The defense? Desire to win that teammates feed off of? Noooo, but then again, when you have an agenda which everyone here knows you do, it's pretty simple to pick a stat here or there, a quarter here or there to support your obsession. Hey when that doesn't fly, you can always resort to your usual hypocritical moral rants.

- Kobe struggled against the only good defenses he went up again..
- Kobe didn't concede too many shots..his teammates and coach had to ask him to stop shooting, and he ended up taking 24 shots, a ridiculous amount for somebody with so much help..
- He didn't show any leadership, he had to be asked to stop shooting..the real leadership came from Phil Jackson and Derek Fisher..
- I can't measure his desire to win, neither can you..

I'm not just "picking a stat" here..I'm measuring his entire impact on the game..he took up 40% of the total possessions during the game, by far the highest of any player on either team, and he had the 3rd lowest offensive rating on his team for the game, only ahead of an injured Bynum and Farmar..this obviously had the biggest overall impact of anything involved in the game..

[Killakobe81]

Damn good list and totally agree with the top two. Normally most people put Wilt at #2 but Kareem's resume is on point with anyone's, including MJ.......

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Wilt
6. Bird
7. Shaq
8. Kobe
9. Duncan
10. Hakeem


I'll put Shaq over Duncan because head to head, Shaquille's teams win the head to head battles and during that time, Shaquille was just dominant. Should have gone down as the GOAT if he had the work ethic of Mike or Kobe ........

Kobe's definitely top 15 and I would put him in the top ten. That 2001 series with the Spurs was the real NBA Finals and the best player on the floor was Kobe and it wasn't even debatable or close. Shaquille should hand over that MVP from the Sixers series and give it to Bean.

Agree with Most of this fine list. But as much as i like Burd i put Duncan and kobe over him and shaq just after ....

[Ashy Larry]

Agree with Most of this fine list. But as much as i like Burd i put Duncan and kobe over him and shaq just after ....

you know, I was really thinking about doing that as well ..... I think I kept Larry up there based on those Laker-Celtic battles and he definitely would have been dropped if the Lakers didn't gift wrap that 1984 le.

Should have been a sweep. Still bitter over that . Fundamentals cost them that ring. Nothing worse than happy, pasty chowds.

[Purch]

Lol at people underrating Bird. He easily has one of the greatest peaks in Nba history.

24/10/7,
29/11/7
26/10/7
28/9/8
30/9/6

All on near 50% shooting and at the top of the leauge in steals every one of those years. And record multiple mvps and championships during that period.


1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Bill Russel
4. Wilt Chamberlian
5. Larry Bird
6. Magic Johnson
7. Shaq
8. Duncan/Hakeem
9. Hakeem/Duncan
10. Kobe

[himat]

Lol at people underrating Bird. He easily has one of the greatest peaks in Nba history.

24/10/7,
29/11/7
26/10/7
28/9/8
30/9/6

All on near 50% shooting and at the top of the leauge in steals every one of those years. And record multiple mvps and championships during that period.


1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Bill Russel
4. Wilt Chamberlian
5. Larry Bird
6. Magic Johnson
7. Shaq
8. Duncan/Hakeem
9. Hakeem/Duncan
10. Kobe

I love the top 4 but then I disagree on the rest.

5. Magic Johnson
6. Larry Bird
7. Hakeem Olajuwon
8. Duncan
9. Shaq/Kobe
10. Kobe/Shaq

I don't see how you can rate Shaq ahead of Duncan. Shaq was more dominant and a greater pain to game plan against, but both players credentials are very similar. Only difference is that Shaq did it with a former superstar in Penny, one of the top 3 players in the game today in Dwyane Wade, and arguably one of the top 10 basketball players of all time in Kobe Bryant.

Duncan did it in the same place, the same way, for longer than a decade.

I can see why you put Larry above Magic so I won't argue with you there.

If Kobe wins another ring next year, especially if its over the Heat, he jumps up 3 or 4 spots on the list.

[redzero]

What did Shaq do with Penny? Be swept? Shaq won three championships in a row as the clear number one option. He dominated in the playoffs.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

No one is going to agree on a top 10, but that's ok. However, making a list without seeing players play usually means you are influenced by what other people say, not what you observed. I am one of the few people here old enough to have seen Russell play and there is a lengthy discussion starting with post 211 here:

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/show...=160949&page=9

Essentially I note that way back then Russell wasn't perceived as great as he is today. I also point out that Russell had more help on his 11 les in 13 years than any player in NBA history with 4 teammates from the NBA top 50 at 50 years list, and an additional 4 more hall of famers. No wonder they won all those years. Those repliers that have seen the discussion have posted it has intrigued them.

I have never believed Russell is top 10 and it's probably in Spurs fans favor to agree with this. The reason's are it's consistent with the argument to place Tim ahead of Kobe because Kobe had help getting his les. The next reason is, it moves Tim up a notch and allows him to challenge more top 10 candidates. The final reason is acknowledging Russell for 11 rings with a lot of help validates Kobes 5 rings as greater than tim's 4. There is a lot of discussion about this in that thread, and even Jamstone makes a pretty valid point, that Ben Wallace could be exchanged for Russell without batting an eyelash. Is Ben Wallace a top 10 player? No, he's not. There are some other notes about players who most leave off their top 10 with reasons why they remain in the discussion.

With the above in mind, I discovered a whole new topic for comparison, Kobe Bryant versus John Havlicek. I showed why Hondo may be top 10 in that thread above, and I even think he should be higher than Russell. However, the similarities of Russell/Havlicek are eerily similar to Shaq/Kobe. We know the latter story, let's look at the Russell/Havlicek facts:

1) Havlicek won 6 rings with Russell, coming off the bench as the 6th man.
2) Russell left in 1969 and the Celtics missed the playoffs for 2 years, and rebuilt around Havlicek in the draft, getting JoJo White and Dave Cowens.
3) 1972 Boston had the best record in the east, but were upset in the ECF by the New York Knicks playing without Willis Reed.
4) 1973 Boston posted the 3rd best, at that time, regular season mark of 68-14. They won all 4 games against the defending champion Lakers. They were beaten in 7 games by the Knicks, who had Reed back. New York then beat the Lakers.
5) 1974 Led by finals MVP Havlicek, Boston defeated The Bucks (Kareem and Oscar Robertson) for the NBA le, without HCA in 7 games. Granted, Milwaukke was without Lucius Allen, and Oscar Robertson was playing hurt (and retired). Howver, they survived two home losses by beating the Bucks 3 times in Milwaukee.
1975) Boston had the best record in the east but were upset in the ECF by Washington.
1976) Boston won the finals in an exciting series against Phoenix who had defeated defending champion Golden State, (who also had the best record) in 7 games in the WCF.
1977) Boston began their decline and lost to the Sixers in the second round, who were rejuvnated with Dr. J.
1978) Boston fell from the playoffs and Havlicek retired when season ended.

Havlicek has just a few more career points than Kobe. He led his team to two les and several deep playoff runs, but missed the playoffs 3 times. Havlicek led that team from 1970-1978, 9 seasons. Kobe has led his for 6. Who is greater between the two, Havlicek or Bryant?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...havlijo01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...bryanko01.html

[himat]

What did Shaq do with Penny? Be swept? Shaq won three championships in a row as the clear number one option. He dominated in the playoffs.

I'm not denying that. He wouldn't be in the discussion as a top 10 all time player if he didn't do that.

But if Kobe needed Shaq's help well Shaq obviously needed Kobe's help (or a Wade or Penny's)

I'm just saying that something should be said for Duncan staying a Spur his whole career and winning there and only there.

Shaq has been in Orlando, LA, Miami, Phoenix, Cleveland, and now Boston. Even though he may have been the most dominant inside force in the NBA his latest running from team to team puts him down in my list.

[Ashy Larry]

Happy Birfday Bean ........ Go blow Vanessa Back out

[Kobe™]

Happy B-Day.
Enjoy today, then the quest for #6 Begins.

[Jt.ONE]

i'm proud to say that me and jellybean share the same bday.

victory.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Question for 3.5 years ago, winter of 2007:

Was Kobe Bryant the best player in the game?
Was Dwyane Wade #2?
Was LeBron James a choker?

Would you agree with the opinion of an All Spurs Talk second team poster (Because he's always telling us he is), and a self admitted bandwagon fan?

http://www.basketbrains.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1391

HarlemHeat37 Post subject: Miami Heat..Posted: 1:03, 7 Feb 2007

PostUp OG
Joined: 15:25, 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 3454
Location: St.Nicks
as you all know, I left the bandwagon AFTER they won the le, which doesn't make sense, but I didn't like the team they had, and I started to dislike Wade, because of all the Jordan hype..

but now as they struggled early, I started getting the Heat feeling back, and when they got Eddie Jones, that sparked for me..so they're my Eas team with SA as my West team..

I've also gained my respect for Wade back, because of all the hype other players are getting..I think he's the 2nd best player in the NBA, next to Kobe, and his game is a lot more complete than guys like Arenas and Melo who are getting hyped, and he can close out games a lot better than that choker Lebron..

Shaq's back, and has looked good the last few games..their team is better than last year, because they have more depth..Kapono and Wright have stepped up..

I think Miami will win the East, pretty easily IMO to prove everybody wrong..

wouldn't be surprised to see a repeat, and Shaq retire..where does everybody think they end up this season?..

For a bandwagon fan, this post a bit later is rather odd, wouldn't you say?

HarlemHeat37 Post subject: Posted: 5:35, 8 Feb 2007

PostUp OG
Joined: 15:25, 20 Nov 2004
Posts: 3454
Location: St.Nicks
I didn't even watch the finals, but I can imagine Wade got special treatment..BUT if you watched the whole playoffs, Dallas probably got the most calls out of any teams..the Spurs series especially..

but any way you put it, Dallas choked..

and Dirk gets away with almost EVERY in reach he takes..I've seen about 10 Mavs games this season, and the refs assume it's always ball like Dirk is in MJ or something on D..



Kind of funny too, how these two guys joined here 2 days apart, lol. Same guy.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11597
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=11613

[HarlemHeat37]

Continue reading through his posts and get back to me..the question about he and I having the same username and posting style is answered at one point on that forum, we're friends.. you think I would say that about Lebron?..

There's like 4 more HarlemHeats I know on the internet too, btw..one on a Knicks forum, one on a RapGodfathers forum, a 2nd one on RealGM, and one that posts or used to post on the Slam message board..you aren't the first to bring this up, don't feel special..

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Continue reading through his posts and get back to me..the question about he and I having the same username and posting style is answered at one point on that forum, we're friends.. you think I would say that about Lebron?..

Dude, you prove your case, you're on the defensive. No backpeddling allowed. Is your handle there MiamiHeat? See, you lied in the troll forum and said I never beat you in an argument where you did exactly that and gave it up for the world to see. You say you aren't going to engage me in discussion, and yet you do. If you ignore me and stop telling us you have an all spurs talk medal and how we should reply in your threads, I won't bother you. You can attach your lips to LeBron's all day and night. And cut out the lies about Kobe, I cleaned out your AE already on that.

If you want to say Kobe threw everyone you can think of under the bus, I have no problem with that. He is far from a perfect person. , look at me. I can't beat up kids in school anymore because I am an adult now. But I can sure as handle morons like you. So what does that make me?

Your Daddy. You're a troll. I'm the Daddy of all Trolls. Get it?

[HarlemHeat37]

Why do you always ramble on about meaningless ?..

You're the one that has a link in your sig that shows me beating you in an argument, how is that my fault?..you're showing everybody, not me..I haven't engaged in a serious discussion with you since I said that, and I won't, you don't have a medal..if you want serious basketball talk against me, get some recognition first..

Even by linking me a quote of a poster that isn't me, if you do believe it's me, you just unintentionally proved that I've been a Spurs fan on the internet alone for at least 6 years, thus your plan backfiring..

I'm not going to prove anything to you, I'm a medal holder, I'm just going to say that he's a friend that I copied my style from..

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Why do you always ramble on about meaningless ?..

You're the one that has a link in your sig that shows me beating you in an argument, how is that my fault?..you're showing everybody, not me..I haven't engaged in a serious discussion with you since I said that, and I won't, you don't have a medal..if you want serious basketball talk against me, get some recognition first..

Even by linking me a quote of a poster that isn't me, if you do believe it's me, you just unintentionally proved that I've been a Spurs fan on the internet alone for at least 6 years, thus your plan backfiring..

I'm not going to prove anything to you, I'm a medal holder, I'm just going to say that he's a friend that I copied my style from..

Dude, there you go talking about your medal again. You are in serious denial of the facts. You clearly stated you would take the loss in the argument. All you could do was state your opinion to my evidence and an opinion is not a refutation. You gave 3 examples of people who said my posting sucked. When I challenged one of them to tell me why my posting sucked, he backed out. So, if I say your posting sucks does that make me win an argument? No, but it apparently does by your flawed logic.

You copied your posting style from that guy at the other board? You're not going to prove it? LOL, GUILTY as charged until you prove your innocence. So you copied another guy's posting style and his handle. Yeah, right. If that was true you would have proven it. Now you have to or just simply drop it. Meesage board member memories are short, people will forget all this. Face it, you got caught with your pants down, again.

I told you how to make me go away and you don't listen, you come back for more. Let me ask you this, does Duncan228 or Jamstone go on and on about their posting medals? No, only you do, and it's making you look stupid. You're in over your head boy. time to take another loss and I'll get bored with you. In fact, I already am. You can clinch that. Reread my last post, #1087. I don't want to discuss sports with you. You aren't up to my level of knowledge about basketball. Dude, I am 60 fricking years old, I lived trough history. Everyone else here seems to appreciate what I post. So hush.

Backfired? Well, you did seem to be a fake Spurs fan when you switched loyalties after "The Decision". "your" post says your favorite teams are the Spurs in the west, and the Heat in the east. It's just that you like the Heat more, so that makes you appear to be a phony Spurs fan who lists his primary team as the Spurs. It should have been listed as the Heat, but I guess you wanted acceptance here.

[Venti Quattro]

Drew's BMW M6

[Purch]

[himat]

[cobbler]

Dude, there you go talking about your medal again. You are in serious denial of the facts. You clearly stated you would take the loss in the argument. All you could do was state your opinion to my evidence and an opinion is not a refutation. You gave 3 examples of people who said my posting sucked. When I challenged one of them to tell me why my posting sucked, he backed out. So, if I say your posting sucks does that make me win an argument? No, but it apparently does by your flawed logic.

You copied your posting style from that guy at the other board? You're not going to prove it? LOL, GUILTY as charged until you prove your innocence. So you copied another guy's posting style and his handle. Yeah, right. If that was true you would have proven it. Now you have to or just simply drop it. Meesage board member memories are short, people will forget all this. Face it, you got caught with your pants down, again.

I told you how to make me go away and you don't listen, you come back for more. Let me ask you this, does Duncan228 or Jamstone go on and on about their posting medals? No, only you do, and it's making you look stupid. You're in over your head boy. time to take another loss and I'll get bored with you. In fact, I already am. You can clinch that. Reread my last post, #1087. I don't want to discuss sports with you. You aren't up to my level of knowledge about basketball. Dude, I am 60 fricking years old, I lived trough history. Everyone else here seems to appreciate what I post. So hush.

Backfired? Well, you did seem to be a fake Spurs fan when you switched loyalties after "The Decision". "your" post says your favorite teams are the Spurs in the west, and the Heat in the east. It's just that you like the Heat more, so that makes you appear to be a phony Spurs fan who lists his primary team as the Spurs. It should have been listed as the Heat, but I guess you wanted acceptance here.

Ouuuuuch! Daddy just showing what we all know. HarlemHo is a moron who doesn't know basketball beyond an advanced stat sheet. I have absolutely loved reading all the last few weeks posts where just about everyone mops the floor with him. Classic. And tossing out the medal comments day after day... truly pathetic.

Just waiting for the day he es out and doesnt honor his leaving Spurstalk promise.

Well done Daddy! Well Done!

[TheGreatest23]

sons...sign me up in the Kobe Bandwagon. Lebron that traitor.

[Venti Quattro]

new HD jumbotron going up at staples