View Poll Results: How many NBA championships does Manu win without Duncan?

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  1. #51
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    Being the "centerpiece" of a 45-50 win team is something tons of guys have done. None of them have ever won MVP doing it. Congrats to Manu Ginobili, he can accomplish as much as Michael Redd as the alpha dog.
    Well apparently just a few hours ago Manu Ginobili couldnt even do that and was nothing but a replaceable fragile sidekick who rode Duncan's coattails, so glad that some progress has been made.

    Also is being the centerpiece of a respectable playoff team astronomically worse than being the centerpiece of respectable playoff team who elevated to le contender for like 2 yrs? Thats basically what you and the Dirk slobbers are saying.

    No he wouldn't. Dirk draws a ton of double teams as well, just not as deep in the post. They could have changed their system up a tiny bit, don't you think. Tony Parker plays a game similar to Harris, just a lot better. Manu is the streaking shooter and dive cutter, which like Howards game but 10x better. Of course, Manu also handles the ball better than Howard ever could but thats besides the point. Don't even try to compare Avery with Coach Pop. Popovich would have found a way to make it work. Thinking the difference between Dirk and Duncan alone is 4 rings is crazy. Get off Manus and Duncans .
    Ok nevermind the fact shooters like Brent Barry, Mike Finely, Stephen Jackson, Hedo Turkoglu, Roger Mason, Bruce Bowen, etc wouldnt benefit from double teams from a guy who plays farther out in the same way that they benefit from a guy who plays deep in the post. Lets just ignore that and assume offensively it works...what about on defense? You telling me Dirk would be capable of anchoring what was the best defense in the league throughout practically the entire decade?

    And Manufan is the one doing the overrating right
    Last edited by FkLA; 03-20-2010 at 04:52 PM.

  2. #52
    Banned
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    I'm willing to put money on the following thing: if you swap kobe now with a prime manu the lakers at least three peat.

    Now if you have problems with comprehending this argument then you should look this thread :
    http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148353

    Being alpha dog doesn't mean to put 30 ppg or grab 15rpg or 20apg, it means being the first option and playing to win not to get stats recognition hoes money or any other 99% of the ing league plays for. Because we are on spurstalk people should find the comparision with timmy absolutely evident. If you get stats like timmy it okay, if you get stats like bill russell that okay too (that rpg would be alot less nowadays but the leadership would be the same).

    Being able to win an olympic medal is not an easy thing as a trained, 3 year gelled, uber stacked redeem team saw it in the 2008 beijing final. Now imagine that argentina got it in 2004, just 4 years earlier .. same era, almost the same compe ion, a much much weaker us squad. So you can't say about it.

    Now winning an nba ring is something different cause of one thing called endurance and resistance to wear and tear. Manu had a relatively short prime in the nba but that does not mean he could not lead a team for 2-3 seasons playing 35mpg which would be enough for him to have alpha dog impact.

    People nowadays don't know about leadership. It's not about media/stats/etc it's about having the mentality to do what ever it takes to win it all even if that means cutting your stats(tell that to kobe LOL).

    As a franchise player dirk is better cause of longevity. But a prime manu has a higher level of play.

    So to answer the question: with a good supporting cast minimum one ring.

    To leave a nice question: do you think if the mavs had manu over dirk in the 2006 finals would they still lose?

    And the answer the the previous question is absolutely obvious cause manu never chocked and if he lost he did it giving his best - that's what leadership means.

    Have fun replying crap to this

  3. #53
    Banned
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    at you calling US the slobbers. Why would suns fans/hawk fan*/Laker fans/other spur fans be Dirk slobbers? you sound like a ing re .
    during the 06-07 season red hawk 21 name was " The Nba is rigged" and he was a "mavericks" fan. later on he said he switched back to the hawks because they were good again and the mavs were his secondary team

    it was something along those lines lol

  4. #54
    Derrick White fanboy FkLA's Avatar
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    I'm willing to put money on the following thing: if you swap kobe now with a prime manu the lakers at least three peat.

    Now if you have problems with comprehending this argument then you should look this thread :
    http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148353

    Being alpha dog doesn't mean to put 30 ppg or grab 15rpg or 20apg, it means being the first option and playing to win not to get stats recognition hoes money or any other 99% of the ing league plays for. Because we are on spurstalk people should find the comparision with timmy absolutely evident. If you get stats like timmy it okay, if you get stats like bill russell that okay too (that rpg would be alot less nowadays but the leadership would be the same).

    Being able to win an olympic medal is not an easy thing as a trained, 3 year gelled, uber stacked redeem team saw it in the 2008 beijing final. Now imagine that argentina got it in 2004, just 4 years earlier .. same era, almost the same compe ion, a much much weaker us squad. So you can't say about it.

    Now winning an nba ring is something different cause of one thing called endurance and resistance to wear and tear. Manu had a relatively short prime in the nba but that does not mean he could not lead a team for 2-3 seasons playing 35mpg which would be enough for him to have alpha dog impact.

    People nowadays don't know about leadership. It's not about media/stats/etc it's about having the mentality to do what ever it takes to win it all even if that means cutting your stats(tell that to kobe LOL).

    As a franchise player dirk is better cause of longevity. But a prime manu has a higher level of play.

    So to answer the question: with a good supporting cast minimum one ring.

    To leave a nice question: do you think if the mavs had manu over dirk in the 2006 finals would they still lose?

    And the answer the the previous question is absolutely obvious cause manu never chocked and if he lost he did it giving his best - that's what leadership means.

    Have fun replying crap to this
    +1

    On everything except the winning a le thing, I wouldnt bet on that although I wouldnt have bet on Argentina winning gold in 04' either and look how that turned out. Seriously though people like to pull out the recycled joke and mock the fact that "Manu is just a winner" but plain and simply put thats the damn truth. Anyone that doesnt see that he has a drive to win that 99.9% of all basketball players dont have is a moron. His sucess in various compe ions along with simply watching the way he plays and his killer instinct in the clutch and in pressure filled situations clearly show that.

    Also regarding his prime he came into the league at like age 26, so I think if he wouldve came in younger...spent a couple of years to adjust than his prime wouldve been extended by a couple years.

  5. #55
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    To leave a nice question: do you think if the mavs had manu over dirk in the 2006 finals would they still lose?
    If he was there instead of Dirk? Yes.
    If he was there next to Dirk instead of anyone else on the Mavs? No.

    I love Manu, think he's a great player, but in the NBA I wouldn't take him over Dirk unless I already had a great PF/C on my team.

  6. #56
    Believe.
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    I love Nazis.

    Thanks for playing.

  7. #57
    Veteran spursfan09's Avatar
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    How many ships does duncan win without Manu? I say they don't win in 05 without Manu's awesomeness. Good poll.

  8. #58
    Veteran spursfan09's Avatar
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    This is a good thread to remind me of the greatness of Tim Duncan. There's MJ, TD, Kobe, Shaq etc. level...Then there is everybody else.

  9. #59
    Shutty.. Bukefal's Avatar
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    Manu is a great player and had so much success in his career. I will probably get a whole wave of criticism and hate for saying this by some spurs fans but Manu is overrated. By Spurs fans, but also by others.

    Don't get me wrong, im not saying he isnt a great player, because he is But there are so many who have sunglasses on when its about manu, it's like he is god. He is very popular among spurs fans, that has to do with it, some maybe get carried away because of that. He is great, but not that great how many make him.

    And no, I don't hate him, nor am I French.

  10. #60
    Phil Younghusband
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    He's overrated by some Spurs fans and underrated by other NBA fans.

    To answer the question: 3
    You didn't notice what the le wrote or just ignored what it said? Manu has won ZERO ing ring without Duncan and his international achievements would have also been mirages had he not got so many quality teammates like Nocioni, Obertan, Delfino, and of course Luís Scola. get some basic reading abilities and re-read the thread le you misread, you dumb piece of vintage sediment.

  11. #61
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    As a franchise player dirk is better cause of longevity. But a prime manu has a higher level of play.
    That's exactly my point. I never said that Manu had a better career in the NBA than Dirk. Dirk's NBA career is HoF worthy, Manu isn't. I know that, every sane person knows that. What I've always said is that IMO Manu at his prime was slightly better than Dirk at his. It's just an opinion and I know there's no way to prove it, but I really feel that way and I've no problem with people not agreeing with me but I think they're highly mistaken when they say that Manu at his prime isn't even close to Dirk's level.

  12. #62
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    Hey OP how many rings does Scottie win without MJ?



    Youre a ing moron, are you now basically putting Dirk on the same pedestal as a prime Tim Duncan? Do you even realize how the Spurs system operated, especially before Manu and Tony developed into all-stars. The offense consisted of throwing the ball down low into Tim and letting him go to work or if the double/triple team collapsed throw it out to the numerous shooters that came through San Antonio. Kind of hard to do that when your girl Dirk plays out on the perimeter. The defense was anchored by Tim Duncan. Kind of hard have a guy who at best is an average defender anchor the best defense in the NBA throughout practically the entire decade.

    Dirk would be ringless even with the Spurs cast. Even if he miraculously developed the best low post game in the league and become the best defensive anchor in the league like Timmy, his destiny of being a choker would probably get in the way and keep him ringless.
    Excellent post. I'm sick and tired of people pulling the "Duncan's supporting case" excuse to attempt to minimize his greatness. The reality is he's never played with another all-time great in his prime (Robinson was merely All-Star caliber their first three years together, then a high level role player their final three years together), up until 04-05 didn't have a single consistent, serious perimeter threat and often had a team that wasn't among the top couple in terms of talent, which their payroll indicated, unlike the Mavs, who annually had a top three payroll and surrounded Nowitzki with big name after big name and All-Star caliber player after All-Star caliber player. There is no excuse for Nowitzki, he just never got it done in the clutch and anyone who thinks he's even in Duncan's league historically flat out doesn't know basketball. One is a dominant scorer; the other is a dominant all around player who controlled games in a variety of ways.

  13. #63
    Poppin' Champagne badfish22's Avatar
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    That's exactly my point. I never said that Manu had a better career in the NBA than Dirk. Dirk's NBA career is HoF worthy, Manu isn't. I know that, every sane person knows that. What I've always said is that IMO Manu at his prime was slightly better than Dirk at his. It's just an opinion and I know there's no way to prove it, but I really feel that way and I've no problem with people not agreeing with me but I think they're highly mistaken when they say that Manu at his prime isn't even close to Dirk's level.
    Dirks MVP year > Manus best year

  14. #64
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    Help me out, which poll should I start?

    1-How much better Manu's stats would be if he wouldn't have played his whole career in such a talented team and with a coach that overprotects his players' minutes.
    2-How much better would have Manu been if he would have goten to the league at age 20/21 and wouldn't have wasted 2 years of his prime adapting as a rookie and sop re to the NBA.
    3-How many all-stars would have Manu played if he wouldn't have accepted to come off the bench?
    4-Do you really thought Billups would win a championship as the alpha dog of a team?
    5-Do you really thought a team full of NBA stars would have been beaten by a team that had Pepe Sanchez, Andres Nocioni, Fabricio Oberto and Ruben Wolkowiski as 4 of its starters?

  15. #65
    Billy Bob
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    Ginobili is a real special player. You can't measure his value on just stats alone. But you can't deny the fact that Ginobili has played in the most important, championship on the line, type of games throughout his basketball career. whereas losers like Arenas/carter get millions of dollars more to basically entertain fans with their stats. Manu entertains fans by leaving his heart out on the court every time he steps on the court. It has resulted in championships across all levels of compe ion. And that's with and without Duncan/Parker. Coincidence or luck?? I think not!! Desire, dedication, blood, sweat and tears? Yes!

  16. #66
    Billy Bob
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    If you where to play one game to decide the championship of the NBA, you would be stupid not to choose Manu Ginobili to lead your team.

  17. #67
    kick rocks
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    What's with this Nazi ? Never understood it.

  18. #68
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    If you where to play one game to decide the championship of the NBA, you would be stupid not to choose Manu Ginobili to lead your team.
    You would be stupid not to choose Lebron.

  19. #69
    lol banned DUNCANownsKOBE2's Avatar
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    If you where to play one game to decide the championship of the NBA, you would be stupid not to choose Manu Ginobili to lead your team.


  20. #70
    lol banned DUNCANownsKOBE2's Avatar
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    What's with this Nazi ? Never understood it.

    Manu Ginobili and most of his fans are Nazi sympathizers.

  21. #71
    Mark Price>you Cleveland Steamer's Avatar
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    how many bench players could lead a team to a championship?

  22. #72
    Mark Price>you Cleveland Steamer's Avatar
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    yet another brilliant thread created by a brilliant poster.

  23. #73
    kick rocks
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    Manu Ginobili and most of his fans are Nazi sympathizers.

  24. #74
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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  25. #75
    ಥ﹏ಥ DAF86's Avatar
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    lol 21 to 22

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