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In this WC most Catalans prefered Argentina to win over Spain.
Only thing Messi is lacking is the WC, after that he already has Maradona beaten on club and individual awards.
I saw your comment and I respondend, I don't remember what I posted some months ago, either way I don't think it's a stupid argument. IMO it's a lot fairer to compare 22 years old Messi to 22 years old Maradona, than 22 years old Messi to Maradona's whole career.
In this WC most Catalans prefered Argentina to win over Spain.
Only thing Messi is lacking is the WC, after that he already has Maradona beaten on club and individual awards.
You cannot compare the situation at all, if it was not for Maradona, no italian in the world would have rooted more for a player to shine than Italy NT to win.
"Only" ? it is a huge only especially when he will have to get 2 of the most important compe ion in the world to be compared to Diego.
For the rest, leading Napoli to two les + 2 second place is something really really really special. For me these achievements are bigger than what messi did untill now with Barcelona.
Anyway maybe because of our age difference I'm nostalgic of the old good times and you are more focused on valorizing the present.
I disagree, for starters, lets say for 2014 argentina wins the WC, with Messi playing his role among a talented argentina team filled with young stars. that's already a lesser feat than maradona in 86, just as messi's club exploits with barca are below maradona in napoli for the same fact. Lets say that those young stars continue to mature and they go on to reach but lose the finals in 2018, thats still less than maradona in 90, when not only he had a so so team but also played on one leg.
and lets say messi wins the next 3 world cups on such a team, is that enough?
lets say messi wins just one world cup, but the same way as diego with a so so team, is that enough?
IMO, it would only be enough if on top of winning, he also improved his passing game, control tempo, lead a team; in other words, his ability to dictate the play. and right now, he doesnt do that.
Even if he doesnt do any of that, I still like him for being very talented, a crazy good dribbler, and a humble kid. But if you want to call him better than maradona, he needs to do all of that.
That '90 Argie squad got to the final, thanks mainly to a whole lot of luck: the game against Brazil was unbelievable, then we won the quarters and semis thanks to the penalties. Maradona wasn't even the best player of that team, Caniggia was at that time. So to put the '90 WC as a testament of Maradona's ability to carry a team is inaccurate.
And the teammates argument is subjective and unfair, for ex: Most will agree that in '02 Ronaldo had more talent around him than Cannavaro in '06, but nobody will say that Cannavaro > Ronaldo because of that.
An even better example: Maradona in Barcelona with supossedly better teammates than what he had in Napoly never won anything, so it's all relative, all I know is that if Messi wins a WC he would have a better resume than Maradona.
I agree with Brazil
If you compare Napoli back then to Barcelona today.......
Outside of Careca, the rest of the team was quite ty
Diego didnt have Xavi, Iniesta, Eto, Henry, Villa, Puyol, Alves, etc....
Plus, winning the Serie A is much tougher than la Liga
In Spain, you have Barcelona or RMA (and to a lesser degree, Athletico Madrid)
Not only Napoli faced stiffer compe ion, but they won 2 scudettos in the great Milan AC's days; the AC Milan of Van Basten, Gullit, Rijkard, Baresi, Costacurta, Ancelotti, Maldini.
Also, what Diego accomplished with the Argie NT is impressive.
While Buruchagga and Valdano were good players, they were no Tevez, Aguerro, etc...
He led them to the WC in 86, and to the Final in 90 (and in 90, Argentina looked ty to be honest)
Maradona FTW
x10000
Messi is the Kobe of soccer
Exactly, this is why the Barcelona boss is Xavi.
Now it's quite unfair to ask Messi to do that because this is not his position or the best way to use it. Messi is a 9 1/2, Maradona, Xavi, Platini, Zidane are true 10.
We are in line lefty.
I don't know if we will see again something equivalent one day of what Maradona achieved with Napoli. This club was NOTHING before him and is NOTHING after him. He took an above average team to two les in the toughest club compe ion in the world.
maradona > messi
and as for club coaches, you gotta give it to Mourinho. he gets every team to the champs final and winners of his club league
Don't jinx it !
cristiano ronaldo > messi
Although I'm a RMA fan, I would have to disagree
cristiano ronaldo- on a good day!- is half the player messi is
I think it's unfair to imply that Barca is Xavi's team, as some of you are doing. Of course he's one of the best playmakers in the world, but you need a great scorer to put the ball in the net. Sure it starts at the midfield, but what Messi contributes is HUGE.
Last season he scored 34 goals and had 10 assists in La Liga (not including champs league)
Xavi had 14 assists and 3 goals (of course the goals isn't important here) with 1 more start than messi.
No player scores that much for a team, that is irreplaceable.
And if you want a quote from Xavi himself, here you go: "It is clear that Messi is on a level above all others. Those who do not see that are blind."
The notion of who is the heart of a team is quite subjective anyway.
When you say you need a great scorer to put the ball in the net you can also say you need a great central defender. BTW what it is important for a team is its dorsal spine: 9 / 10 / central defense.
The stats don't help to define a leader of a team. France 1998 the leader was clearly Deschamps with 0 goal and 0 assist. Brazil 94 the leader was Dunga.
In the same way of thinking I stand for what I said, Barcelona is Xavi's team, IMHO of course.
I'm not saying Barca isn't Messi's team (that's subjective) but I don't think goal production is a good indicator. Goal production is perhaps the most replaceable part of a team (look at Man U, Barca, Inter over the past 5-6 years).
Cristiano Ronaldo scored 42 goals in 49 games the year they won the CL but I'm not sure who would say it his team (over the likes of Rio, Giggs, Scholes, etc.). Rooney had almost as an impressive campaign last year when Ronaldo's production left, etc.
Eto'o was producing for Barca big time over the year (before his injuries) and he was replaced (and Eto'o replaced the production lost at Inter). I think somone like Xavi is much harder to replace than a goal scorer (I think Messi is more than that, though).
And how do you explain that in a more stacked team like Barcelona and in a (according to you) lesser league like the Spanish one Maradona failed?
I also never said it was Messi's team, but like I said he does more than scoring. He probably is somewhat replaceable simply because Barca has had so many great strikers in recent history, Eto'o, Henry, Villa, Ibrahimovic, on top of Messi. It is absurd how these clubs spend all of that money limitlessly to do that. Xavi isn't the only key midfielder either. But as you've said it is very subjective, and a good soccer team needs good players at all parts of the field.
Maradona was not helped by the referees, defenders were really hard on him.(one broke his leg i think and he was out for months)
The spaniards didn't like him, there was some racism against south american in the 80s. He got into frequent disputes with the club president because he was always going out at nights. That's the time he started using drugs.
And in Italy there wasn't racism? In Italy not only there was racism against south Americans but also a big internal fight between North and South, and Napoly still won despite all those things and the fact that Maradona still carried an unprofessional kind of life.
From Wikipedia:
FC Barcelona
After the 1982 World Cup, in June, Maradona was transferred to Barcelona in Spain for a then world record £5m.[1] In 1983, under coach César Luis Menotti, Barcelona and Maradona won the Copa del Rey (Spain's annual national cup compe ion), beating Real Madrid, and the Spanish Super Cup, beating Athletic de Bilbao. However, Maradona had a difficult tenure in Barcelona.[5] First a bout with hepa is, then a broken leg caused by an ill-timed tackle by Athletic's Andoni Goikoetxea jeopardized his career,[1] but Maradona's physical strength and willpower made it possible for him to soon be back on the pitch. At Barcelona, Maradona got into frequent disputes with the team's directors, especially club president Josep Lluís Núñez, culminating with a demand to be transferred out of Camp Nou in 1984. He was transferred to Napoli in Italy's Serie A for another record fee, £6.9m.
I don't see the link with Napoli. The fact he failed with Barcelona decreases the value of what he did with Napoli ?
That Barcelona team wasnt stacked back then
Messi is not at Maradona's level. Not now.
And that doesn't take anything away from Messi, Maradona was amazing. The real debate is Maradona vs. Pele, which can get interesting.
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