Messi=GOD

[DAF86]

DAF I'm not saying that all the polls are legit and that the guys are voting for the good reasons. I'm just saying the vast majority of these polls, studies, opinions ... tend to say that Pele > Maradona and that Pele is on the top 3 of the athlete of the century XX with owens and cassius clay.


Maybe one of the reason why Pele has the edge in people's mind, is because he is like a pioneer: one of the first football player known in the whole world. The 1958 cup transformed him in a legend through newspapers.

Why do you prefer to listen to these polls when the official one, the one that FIFA organized was won by Maradona by a big margin? And why do you pretend like those polls represent "the people's minds"? From what I've seen all my life Maradona is more popular among football fans than Pele.

[Brazil]

Why do you prefer to listen to these polls when the official one, the one that FIFA organized was won by Maradona by a big margin? And why do you pretend like those polls represent "the people's minds"? From what I've seen all my life Maradona is more popular among football fans than Pele.

The FIFA election was an internet votation and a very critised one. It was so critized that FIFA gave finally the le to Pelé against internet votes. For the little story coaches and players in activity or retired gave their votes at a large majority to Pelé. So, and as far as I know FIFA best player is Pele.

For the rest as I stated true or not legit or not the polls, ceremonies etc.. gave in their majority the crown to Pele.
Athlete of the century elected by journalists
Athlete of the century elected by IOC
Football player of the century elected by winners of ballon d'or

I think in people's mind at least in Europe Pele is the greatest.

[ALVAREZ6]

The FIFA election was an internet votation and a very critised one. It was so critized that FIFA gave finally the le to Pelé against internet votes. For the little story coaches and players in activity or retired gave their votes at a large majority to Pelé. So, and as far as I know FIFA best player is Pele.

For the rest as I stated true or not legit or not the polls, ceremonies etc.. gave in their majority the crown to Pele.
Athlete of the century elected by journalists
Athlete of the century elected by IOC
Football player of the century elected by winners of ballon d'or

I think in people's mind at least in Europe Pele is the greatest.

"In December 2000, Pelé and Maradona shared the prize of FIFA Player of the Century by FIFA. The award was originally intended to be based upon votes in a web poll, but after it became apparent that it favoured Diego Maradona, many observers complained that the Internet nature of the poll would have meant a skewed demographic of younger fans who would have seen Maradona play, but not Pelé. FIFA then appointed a "Family of Football" committee of FIFA members to decide the winner of the award. The committee chose Pelé. Since Maradona was winning the Internet poll, however, it was decided he and Pelé should share the award."


The bolded part is interesting since he never played in Europe, rather only joke leagues (relative to the compe ion we've seen in other places since that time).

And I will reiterate, for many reasons I just don't think it is fair to say one is greater than the other. The FIFA player of the century is officially shared between them, and it's sort of funny that FIFA basically assumed Pele would be elected greatest because once they saw he wasn't, they stepped in and put their foot down like they do everything. FIFA is the most pathetic professional sporting organization in the world (just a comment that has more to do with everything else, and not this issue).

I have a problem how we are always trying to declare greatest ever all of the time, in cases where the differences when the players played are so great too. There's just no use, these players never played against each other in their primes, it's worthless. For example, do you guys think Michael Jordan was that much better than Kobe Bryant, or do you see them as relatively on the same level? Because my opinion is the latter, I don't think it's always fair to have these official greatest ever movements out there. In the football case, do you guys think Pele was much better than Maradona? I tend to believe both were incredibly amazing and both did brilliant things, at different times in different leagues with different players playing alongside them. I just can't rank one above the other.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Dude, can you just chill out a little bit ?

First I said I tend to agree, I'm not doing a strong case about this debate.

Second as I already said, I've just seen some highlights of Pele so I'm not saying I'm an expert. So yeah I'm talking out of my ass, so what ?

Third it's extremely hard to compare two players of different times, so yeah I made some generalization coming from the fact I live in Brazil so I can have an opinion on what Brazilian think about that and I worked a lot in Argentina (Cordoba and Buenos Aires), I watched various games in Argentina, I have some friends there and I'm a fan of Maradona, I think I can give my 2 cts about what some Argentinan can think (the ones I know).

But as you seem to be an expert by calling me out, why don't you share with us your wised opinion on that subject ?


on a side note: posters calling out other posters with names for whatever reasons are annoying as . You could have said the same thing with a "I think you're generalizing too much.... see not that difficult to be educated even on a spurs board".

I know your next post will be butthurt a frenchie having an opinion on what Argentinan think but I'm pessimist maybe I'll be pleasantely surprised

First of all, I never called you any names. I called your argument bull and rubbish. It is. You want to take that personally, go ahead, not my problem, specially since you yourself admitted I was right, you were talking out of your ass.

Second, I don't much like Maradona but I have seen him play and can attest to the genius behind his skills. I can't say the same about Pele as I did NOT see him play other than a few recorded games here and there.

Of course, I'm not the one making a broad generalization about something to support a bull point, am I?

P.S. so far, you're the only one bringing nationality into this. I have not mentioned even once the fact you're French (couldn't really give a ) or that you live in Brazil, though I do find it hilarious that you think you've got the pulse of two entire nations (not to mention the entire continent of Europe) simply because you worked a few times here and there. Congrats on your broad generalization skills there bro!

[DAF86]

FIFA didn't give the le to Pele, they divided it between him and Maradona after the internet voting didn't go as they planned it. If Pele would have won the poll they would have just leave it that way, but like that wasn't the case they did what they did, they weren't going to recoginize the guy that criticized them all his life against their number one suckup.

And don't change the subject of the argument, we aren't discussing awards being given by journalists here, we're arguing who is more popular among football fans, and like I said from what I've always seen Maradona is more popular, he's the one with the (International made) movies about his life, the songs and all that kind of stuff created to take advantage of his worldwide popularity. I'm sure this has to do with Maradona beign more contemporary than Pele, or the fact that he's more controversial and interesting to the masses, but whatever the case it's pretty obvious to me that Diego is a more popular figure than Pele among football fans.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

so what exactly are we arguing here? who's better? or who's more popular? Personally, I might give the edge to Pele in terms of popularity. He's got the US hands down, and even though Maradona might beat him in the eyes of the young fans, IMO Pele wins by a slight margin.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I don't have the numbers to back it up.

[DAF86]

so what exactly are we arguing here? who's better? or who's more popular? Personally, I might give the edge to Pele in terms of popularity. He's got the US hands down, and even though Maradona might beat him in the eyes of the young fans, IMO Pele wins by a slight margin.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I don't have the numbers to back it up.

I don't know what you're arguing, I'm arguing that Maradona is more popular than Pele and by a big margin, beign popular does not equal beign known, how many people in the US care about football and from those how many are true Pele fans, I'm talking about "having the most people buying your stuff, having your poster, beign movilized to vote for you in an internet poll, crying when they meet you" popular. It's not a fair comparisson really, because of the differences in ages but it is what it is.

[ALVAREZ6]

I don't know what you're arguing, I'm arguing that Maradona is more popular than Pele and by a big margin, beign popular does not equal beign known, how many people in the US care about football and from those how many are true Pele fans, I'm talking about "having the most people buying your stuff, having your poster, beign movilized to vote for you in an internet poll, crying when they meet you" popular. It's not a fair comparisson really, because of the differences in ages but it is what it is.

Honestly I think you are letting your bias heavily influence your argument. I really don't think Maradona is by far more popular, I would agree that Pele is more popular worldwide. Anyway, you guys by now know my opinion on the subject.

[DAF86]

Maradona has more fans than Pele has people that actually watched him play. To me is pretty obvious that Maradona is more popular.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Maradona has more fans than Pele has people that actually watched him play. To me is pretty obvious that Maradona is more popular.

I think your confidence on the subject is pretty much crap unless you have the numbers to back up your claim of "pretty obvious". Its not to me, and many others.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that you ask most Brasilians out there and they'll tell you Pele is much more popular. It doesn't seem to be quite that obvious to them, now does it?

[DAF86]

I think your confidence on the subject is pretty much crap unless you have the numbers to back up your claim of "pretty obvious". Its not to me, and many others.

In fact, I'm pretty sure that you ask most Brasilians out there and they'll tell you Pele is much more popular. It doesn't seem to be quite that obvious to them, now does it?

Numbers? Well the "FIFA player of the century" internet vote is the only thing I know that can be somewhat considered as a comparisson of popularity between them and Maradona won that one (and I can't find the % right now, but if I recall correctly Maradona won it by a considerable margin). You'll probably say; "well, that's not fair Pele is older and most of his fans probably don't use internet" or things like that, but that's my point. A lot more people saw Maradona play than Pele, is only normal that Maradona has more fans right now, Pele isn't even that big on his own country. Not too long ago Senna beat him in Brazil as the biggest sportmen from that country, do you imagine Fangio beating Maradona in Argentina? Not a chance.

[ALVAREZ6]

Numbers? Well the "FIFA player of the century" internet vote is the only thing I know that can be somewhat considered as a comparisson of popularity between them and Maradona won that one (and I can't find the % right now, but if I recall correctly Maradona won it by a considerable margin). You'll probably say; "well, that's not fair Pele is older and most of his fans probably don't use internet" or things like that, but that's my point. A lot more people saw Maradona play than Pele, is only normal that Maradona has more fans right now, Pele isn't even that big on his own country. Not too long ago Senna beat him in Brazil as the biggest sportmen from that country, do you imagine Fangio beating Maradona in Argentina? Not a chance.

Well than what kind of point is this exactly...? It's nothing more than who may or may not be more popular, which, I'm not sure if you've stated earlier, doesn't have to do with who was the better player.

[DAF86]

Well than what kind of point is this exactly...? It's nothing more than who may or may not be more popular, which, I'm not sure if you've stated earlier, doesn't have to do with who was the better player.

Well yes, that's the point I'm trying to make. I never got into the who's better argument, I even clarified that in an earlier post. How can I talk about who's better if I never saw any of them play at their primes?

[ALVAREZ6]

Well yes, that's the point I'm trying to make. I never got into the who's better argument, I even clarified that in an earlier post. How can I talk about who's better if I never saw any of them play at their primes?

Well I agree. Then what's the point of comparing who is more popular today?

[Brazil]

so what exactly are we arguing here? who's better? or who's more popular? Personally, I might give the edge to Pele in terms of popularity. He's got the US hands down, and even though Maradona might beat him in the eyes of the young fans, IMO Pele wins by a slight margin.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I don't have the numbers to back it up.

So you are giving your 2 cts on a subject saying it's just your humble opinion. This is what I did in my previous posts no need to burn my arguments out.

My 2 cts on the subject. I think Pele is more recognized than Maradona and pros coaches, players evaluate is the goat.

[ALVAREZ6]

Messi just went down in addage time...he looks legit hurt

Carried off on stretcher, looks like he rolled his right ankle pretty bad

[DAF86]

He could be out for a while.

[DAF86]

Two to four weeks out.

http://www.sport.es/default.asp?idpu...dseccio_PK=803

[Brazil]

what happened ?

[ALVAREZ6]

what happened ?

He was either running with the ball or just receiving it in full stride and some atletico player came in hard and slid and knocked him off the ball, sort took out his left leg while also hitting his right ankle (or messi stepped on his foot and rolled his ankle)

it was stupid, the guy had no real chance of stopping the play, pretty late challenge.

[ALVAREZ6]

It was this ugly got's late challenge, Tomas Ujfalusi

[TDMVPDPOY]

if messi = god, then shouldnt he be immuned from such injuries?

[ALVAREZ6]

if messi = god, then shouldnt he be immuned from such injuries?

Maybe but I think this is all part of "his plan"

[Phenomanul]

He was either running with the ball or just receiving it in full stride and some atletico player came in hard and slid and knocked him off the ball, sort took out his left leg while also hitting his right ankle (or messi stepped on his foot and rolled his ankle)

it was stupid, the guy had no real chance of stopping the play, pretty late challenge.

The tackle itself was what injured Messi... Ujfalusi hit his ankle dead on.

[lefty]

He didnt hit him on purpose

Ugly dude wanted to play the ball, but Messi is so damn quick