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  1. #31
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
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    this

    and once again being the best in the world when you are playing in Italy is a little bit more complicated than in Spain.

    BTW I can't believe foreigners are defending Maradona legacy against Argentinan fans.

    DAF you're right he is only 22 and he is the most talented player right now. Nevertheless As of today Maradona Pele Zidane Franz Platini Cruyf etc etc are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lionel
    Ok maybe not Platini

    He was a great player, I was a bigfan, but Messi is more talented
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  2. #32
    I don't have limits sonic21's Avatar
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    Maradona had better vision, passing, centers, shots. Messi is faster and will probably become a better coach.

  3. #33
    I don't have limits sonic21's Avatar
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    I still think Xavi or Iniesta are always the better players against elite teams (against manchester and chelsea).

  4. #34
    Believe.
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    Too early to tell, actually. Messi is only 22.
    A player is "mature" at the age of 25/26.

  5. #35
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    Messi is faster and will probably become a better coach.

  6. #36
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
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    Ok maybe not Platini

    He was a great player, I was a bigfan, but Messi is more talented
    You underestimate Platini a lot, the Platini of the Juventus years was just a BEAST, he is for me THE best example untill today of making his team mates better. Everybody looked like a star when playing with him and Messi will never have this quality.

    Platini is unique and I think he is generally underestimated. For me Platini > Zidane, ask to a Juventus fan he will tell you.

    Don't get me wrong I love Messi he is the best player since 2-3 years, he is for me way better than C. Ronaldo for instance but it is clearly too soon to make this kind of comparaison.

  7. #37
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
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    You underestimate Platini a lot, the Platini of the Juventus years was just a BEAST, he is for me THE best example untill today of making his team mates better. Everybody looked like a star when playing with him and Messi will never have this quality.

    Platini is unique and I think he is generally underestimated. For me Platini > Zidane, ask to a Juventus fan he will tell you.

    Don't get me wrong I love Messi he is the best player since 2-3 years, he is for me way better than C. Ronaldo for instance but it is clearly too soon to make this kind of comparaison.
    Uh, Boniek and Rossi were stars, even without Platini

    Dont get me wrong, Platini was a great player

    Also ,it's hard to say wether Messi can make his teammates better or not, because he has always been surrounded with talented players.


    And of course Juve fans wil tell you Platini is better than Zizou, but that's because Turin won more titles during the Platini era.
    But on the field, I'm sorry, Zizou was wayyyy better

    And yes, Messi is better than Ronaldo

  8. #38
    I don't have limits sonic21's Avatar
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    Platini won 3 golden balls in a row in the 80s. It wasn't a weak era.

  9. #39
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
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    Platini won 3 golden balls in a row in the 80s. It wasn't a weak era.
    I never said it was a weak era

  10. #40
    I don't have limits sonic21's Avatar
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    my point is you have to be an all time great to win 3 GB. Maybe you didn't watch the 80s games but he was awesome.

    And i agree with Brazil, Platini>zidane

  11. #41
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
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    my point is you have to be an all time great to win 3 GB.
    Platini IS an all-time great

    But Zidane was better

  12. #42
    I don't have limits sonic21's Avatar
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  13. #43
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
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    And Zizou mastered the art of koudboul

    Platini didn't

  14. #44
    LMA oh ffadicted's Avatar
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    Meh, Ronaldinho was better in his prime
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  15. #45
    ┌∩┐(●_●)┌∩┐ DAF86's Avatar
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    Meh, Ronaldinho was better in his prime
    Ronaldinho's prime was in Barcelona, I'm sure Barcelona's fans will agree that Messi > Ronaldinho.

    For the moment Barca's president has said that Messi is already the Catalan's club GOAT.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...-greatest.html
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  16. #46
    ┌∩┐(●_●)┌∩┐ DAF86's Avatar
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    and once again being the best in the world when you are playing in Italy is a little bit more complicated than in Spain.
    I hate when people pull "the league A is better than league B" argument. How can you prove that? Henry was a star in the Premier League and since he joined "La Liga" he has underperformanced. C.Ronaldo was undoubtedly the EPL's best player and now he is arguably not even the best player in his squad. Now people are trying to make me bealive that Rooney is better than Messi 'cause he plays in England when last season he wasn't even considered among the best 20 players in the world.

    You can make that argument when it's the NBA vs FIBA, when it's an elite FIFA league (Spain, England, Italy) against any other, but when it's "La Liga" vs EPL or "Il Calcio" you can't, specially when the player and team you are trying to discredit have done it in the Champions League also.

  17. #47
    ┌∩┐(●_●)┌∩┐ DAF86's Avatar
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    And my final thoughts about this subject is that I agree with Brazil, Messi is too young to be placed alongside the greats, he needs one WC or two/three more years at this current level, but as far as "peak" goes, Messi is the best that I have ever seen live in my life (the best years of Maradona I've only seen it on tapes, and from Pele I wasn't even to see tapes from him).

  18. #48
    LMA oh ffadicted's Avatar
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    Ronaldinho's prime was in Barcelona, I'm sure Barcelona's fans will agree that Messi > Ronaldinho.

    For the moment Barca's president has said that Messi is already the Catalan's club GOAT.

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...-greatest.html
    Talk about premature ejac. Ronaldinho's playmaking ability far exceeds what messi has now, and its not even a contest. The only thing that Messi does better is muscle his way in for goals, and even so I'd say Ronaldinho had a better strike the Messi does. It's too early in Messi's career to compare them fully, but right now Ronaldinho by far, not to take anything about from Messi

  19. #49
    I don't have limits sonic21's Avatar
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    Henry was a star in the Premier League and since he joined "La Liga" he has underperformanced..
    henry is past his prime, he wasn't the same the last couple of years with arsenal

    C.Ronaldo was undoubtedly the EPL's best player and now he is arguably not even the best player in his squad.
    he is.

    Now people are trying to make me bealive that Rooney is better than Messi 'cause he plays in England when last season he wasn't even considered among the best 20 players in the world.
    he was.

    All the main leagues have 2,3 or 4 good teams and a bunch of average teams. Barça is the only elite team in "la liga". Real Madrid lost 6 times in the row before the QF of the CL. Sevilla got beat by a russian team.

    The PL is by far the best league.

  20. #50
    ┌∩┐(●_●)┌∩┐ DAF86's Avatar
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    henry is past his prime, he wasn't the same the last couple of years with arsenal
    Still a lot better than what he has done in Spain.

    he is.
    I think so too, but a lot of people will argue that point.

    he was.
    I can't find the list of "FIFA world best player" from 2009 but I'm pretty sure he wasn't in the top 20, either way he was definitely not in the "team of the year" and now people want to say that he is the best player in the world?

    All the main leagues have 2,3 or 4 good teams and a bunch of average teams. Barça is the only elite team in "la liga". Real Madrid lost 6 times in the row before the QF of the CL. Sevilla got beat by a russian team.
    If you don't consider Real Madrid elite, then you have to say that Chelsea isn't elite either. And you can't compare last season's RM with this year's RM. This year's team is much better. If Higuain would have aimed his shot half an inch to the left we would all be hearing a different tune right now.

    The PL is by far the best league
    Based on what? the last UEFA champions is a Spanish team, the current top three players in the world (Messi, Ronaldo, Xavi. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_Wo...f_male_winners) are all playing in Spain, Spain is the last Euro champion, england didn't even qualyfied to the tournament.

  21. #51
    ┌∩┐(●_●)┌∩┐ DAF86's Avatar
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    Talk about premature ejac. Ronaldinho's playmaking ability far exceeds what messi has now, and its not even a contest. The only thing that Messi does better is muscle his way in for goals, and even so I'd say Ronaldinho had a better strike the Messi does. It's too early in Messi's career to compare them fully, but right now Ronaldinho by far, not to take anything about from Messi
    How come? did you see some of the highlights posted in this thread? Messi takes the ball in the miedfield of 3/4 of the field and produces a goal out of nothing, if that's not having playmaking abilities I don't know what is.

  22. #52
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
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    Talk about premature ejac. Ronaldinho's playmaking ability far exceeds what messi has now, and its not even a contest. The only thing that Messi does better is muscle his way in for goals, and even so I'd say Ronaldinho had a better strike the Messi does. It's too early in Messi's career to compare them fully, but right now Ronaldinho by far, not to take anything about from Messi
    You do realize you are in the extreme minority here. Almost every Barca fan in the world thinks Messi is better than Ronaldinho. How exactly do you explain that?

  23. #53
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
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    How come? did you see some of the highlights posted in this thread? Messi takes the ball in the miedfield of 3/4 of the field and produces a goal out of nothing, if that's not having playmaking abilities I don't know what is.
    actually, you're wrong. That is NOT playmaking. Playmaking is the ability to create for everyone else as well as yourself.

    Playmaking ability is not the same as dribbling ability.

    Having said that, I disagree with ffaddicted as well. Messi is just as good or even better at playmaking as Ronaldinho was.

  24. #54
    ┌∩┐(●_●)┌∩┐ DAF86's Avatar
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    actually, you're wrong. That is NOT playmaking. Playmaking is the ability to create for everyone else as well as yourself.
    I know I'm probably wrong ('cause English isn't my first language) but I think of "playmaking" as the ability to make plays, what do you care about involving others in plays when you by yourself can create one or two goals per game (specially in football where the scoring is limited).

  25. #55
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
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    I know I'm probably wrong ('cause English isn't my first language) but I think of "playmaking" as the ability to make plays, what do you care about involving others in plays when you by yourself can create one or two goals per game (specially in football where the scoring is limited).
    You're confused. They're not the same thing. Ability to dribble is not playmaking ability.

  26. #56
    ┌∩┐(●_●)┌∩┐ DAF86's Avatar
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    You're confused. They're not the same thing. Ability to dribble is not playmaking ability.
    Ok, thanks for claryfing. But now anwser this:

    what do you care about involving others in plays when you by yourself can create one or two goals per game (specially in football where the scoring is limited).
    Either way I agree with you, Messi also has playmaking abilities, just go to youtube and watch the videos about his passing.

  27. #57
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
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    Ok, thanks for claryfing. But now anwser this:



    Either way I agree with you, Messi also has playmaking abilities, just go to youtube and watch the videos about his passing.
    oh come on, are you seriously asking that question? What do you care about involving others? When did we start pretending Messi could win every game all by himself? Barca isn't Messi+10 scrubs. Playmaking ability is important. In fact, a good playmaker is ten times as important to a team as a great goal scorer.

  28. #58
    ┌∩┐(●_●)┌∩┐ DAF86's Avatar
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    oh come on, are you seriously asking that question? What do you care about involving others? When did we start pretending Messi could win every game all by himself? Barca isn't Messi+10 scrubs. Playmaking ability is important. In fact, a good playmaker is ten times as important to a team as a great goal scorer.
    Nobody wins a game by himslef, but a lot guys can make goals with pretty much no help whatsover and then with good team defense you can win thanks to that goal.

    IMO a "defense breaker" is just as important as a "playmaker" nowadays in football. The point of this sport is to score goals (and avoid them in your own goal), in practical terms what do you care if those goals were scored by team play or in an individual effort? granted is usually more easy to score playing as a team but if you have a guy that consistenly shows that can create at least one or two offensive plays per game (and take advantage of them) with little to none help that makes up for the lack team play. (I'm obviously not talking about Barcelona in this particular case)

  29. #59
    LMA oh ffadicted's Avatar
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    I'd be hard pressed to find a player in this generation with the talent and technique Ronaldinho had, he could create magic out of nothing. He had a better dribble then messi, passes better and had a ridiculously accurate and powerful free kick. His range of skills and moves were unsurpassed, he was just ridiculous, he got the ball anywhere in the pitch and he could string together a scoring opportunity. I just can't say that for Messi right now, at least not in the same level.

    Messi is good and his best days are very much still to come, but I can't imagine saying he's already better then a prime Dinho. Talking about him in the same breath as Maradona at this point is a disgrace to his legacy, he hasn't even come close to surpassing guys like Ronaldo yet.

  30. #60
    I don't have limits sonic21's Avatar
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    i was blessed to see ronnie playing for my favourite team (psg). He could have had a better career but he likes to party at night.

    In fact, one of the reason he left barça was because they were afraid he'd have a bad influence on Messi who was following his steps.

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