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  1. #61
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
    My Team
    France
    Post Count
    25,781
    Random thoughts:

    - I was young but I saw Maradona playing and he is the best player I've seen in my life.
    - Lefty I'm sorry but Platini > Zidane.
    - No matter what when you are an Offensive guy it is a lot more difficult to play in Italy than in Spain or even in England. The Italian league has the best Defensive players in the world and the best tactical organization.
    - IMO Messi is clearly better than Ronaldinho, like Sonic I saw Ronnie playing in France and I'd take Messi over him in a heartbeat.

  2. #62
    LMA oh ffadicted's Avatar
    My Team
    Brazil
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    8,107
    Being from brasil, I was blessed to see Ronaldinho's entire career, as well as being exposed to tons of different talents... I would not take Messi over him yet... other then that, agree with all Brazil's points
    _____________________________

  3. #63
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
    My Team
    Real Madrid CF
    Post Count
    83,484
    Random thoughts:

    - I was young but I saw Maradona playing and he is the best player I've seen in my life.
    - Lefty I'm sorry but Platini > Zidane.
    - No matter what when you are an Offensive guy it is a lot more difficult to play in Italy than in Spain or even in England. The Italian league has the best Defensive players in the world and the best tactical organization.
    - IMO Messi is clearly better than Ronaldinho, like Sonic I saw Ronnie playing in France and I'd take Messi over him in a heartbeat.
    But how exactly?
    _____________________________
    [IMG]http://www.competition.dz/files/cache/0/vs/440x248/bentaleb-lampard-1394408243.jpg[/IMG]

  4. #64
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
    My Team
    France
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    25,781
    Being from brasil, I was blessed to see Ronaldinho's entire career, as well as being exposed to tons of different talents... I would not take Messi over him yet... other then that, agree with all Brazil's points


    Where do you live ? I'm french and I'm living in Campinas since 2005, my contract will expire end of 2010.

  5. #65
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
    My Team
    France
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    25,781
    But how exactly?
    First of all France has been blessed for having 2 out of 3 best number 10 in history.

    Platini was a natural leader since he begun in Nancy, at 20 years old he was already the go to go guy, the technical, tactical leader and the coach. Zidane has accepted his leadership responsabilities later, the boss in 98 was Deschamps idem in 2000.

    Platini was more decisive offensively. He had the capacity to take over games, Zidane was capable too but not at this level and this consistency.

    Regarding the vision of the game, giving the right guy at the right moment the opportunity to finalize it's a tossup but I'll give a slight advantage to Platini: he had eyes on his back.

    Finally for the clutch part, I'd go with Zidane for his two finalizations in WC final but also his finalization of the champions league final (2002).

    What definately close the debate for me is self control, Zidane has always had craziness moments see WC 2006 or the game against South Africa in 98. Platini has never had this kind of loss of control.

  6. #66
    I don't have limits sonic21's Avatar
    My Team
    Paris Saint-Germain FC
    Post Count
    4,090
    Palmarès:

    * Champion d'Europe des nations : 1984, avec la France A
    * Deux demi-finales de Coupe du monde (4e 1982; 3e 1986)
    * Quart de finaliste aux Jeux Olympiques de 1976
    * Coupe intercontinentale des nations (trophée Artemio Franchi): 1985, avec la France A
    * Coupe d'Europe des clubs champions : 1985, avec la Juventus
    * Coupe d'Europe des vainqueurs de coupes : 1984, avec la Juventus
    * Coupe intercontinentale : 1985, avec la Juventus
    * Supercoupe d'Europe : 1984, avec la Juventus
    * Champion de France : 1981, avec Saint-Étienne
    * Champion d'Italie : 1984 et 1986 avec la Juventus
    * Coupe de France : 1978, avec AS Nancy (et deux finales perdues avec Saint-Etienne)
    * Coupe d'Italie : 1983, avec la Juventus
    * Mundialito des Clubs : 1983 avec la Juventus
    * Champion de France de division 2 : 1975 avec l'AS Nancy


    Distinctions individuelles

    * Champion des champions français L'Equipe en 1977 et 1984
    * Ballon d'or: 1983, 1984 et 1985
    * Onze d'or: 1983, 1984 et 1985
    * Onze d'argent: 1977
    * Meilleur joueur du championnat d'Europe 1984
    * Meilleur buteur du championnat d'Europe 1984 (9 réalisations)
    * Meilleur joueur de la coupe intercontinentale 1985
    * Meilleur buteur du championnat d'Italie: 1983, 1984 et 1985
    * Meilleur joueur du championnat d'Italie Guerin: 1984
    * Joueur français de l'année: 1976 et 1977
    * World Soccer awards: 1984 et 1985
    * Chevron awards: 1983 et 1985 (ratio buts/match)
    * Trophée d'argent du Centenaire de la League anglaise (meilleur joueur)
    * Entraîneur mondial de l'année World Soccer awards: 1991
    * Entraîneur européen de l'année El Pais
    * Prix Artémio Franchi: 2003
    * Nommé au FIFA 100 (Top 100 des meilleurs joueurs vivants de tous les temps) : 2004
    * Légion d'Honneur

    Statistiques

    * 72 sélections en équipe de France A (capitaine à cinquante reprises), pour 41 buts entre 1976 et 1987 (record d'autant plus remarquable qu'il jouait au milieu de terrain)
    * 104 buts toutes compétitions confondues avec la Juventus, record français de 1987 à 2005
    * 28 buts en coupes d'Europe de clubs
    * 52 matchs de coupes d'Europe de clubs
    * Sélection du siècle FIFA 1998
    * Joueur du siècle de la Juventus FC
    * Joueur français du siècle L'Equipe 2000

  7. #67
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
    My Team
    France
    Post Count
    25,781
    Palmarès:


    * Meilleur buteur du championnat d'Italie: 1983, 1984 et 1985

    * 72 sélections en équipe de France A (capitaine à cinquante reprises), pour 41 buts entre 1976 et 1987 (record d'autant plus remarquable qu'il jouait au milieu de terrain)
    * 104 buts toutes compétitions confondues avec la Juventus, record français de 1987 à 2005
    * 28 buts en coupes d'Europe de clubs
    This is the most impressive and this is the main reason why Platini > Zidane. Platini is midfield number 10 and he was one of the best scorer of his era.

  8. #68
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
    My Team
    Real Madrid CF
    Post Count
    83,484
    This is the most impressive and this is the main reason why Platini > Zidane. Platini is midfield number 10 and he was one of the best scorer of his era.
    Except that Zidane won the WC
    Except that Zidane led France to the Euro Cup 2 years after winning the WC

  9. #69
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
    My Team
    Real Madrid CF
    Post Count
    83,484
    First of all France has been blessed for having 2 out of 3 best number 10 in history.

    Platini was a natural leader since he begun in Nancy, at 20 years old he was already the go to go guy, the technical, tactical leader and the coach. Zidane has accepted his leadership responsabilities later, the boss in 98 was Deschamps idem in 2000..
    I agree

    Platini was more decisive offensively. He had the capacity to take over games, Zidane was capable too but not at this level and this consistency.

    Regarding the vision of the game, giving the right guy at the right moment the opportunity to finalize it's a tossup but I'll give a slight advantage to Platini: he had eyes on his back.
    Zidane was more of playmaker than Platini; he was an occasional scorer, but his goals were timely.
    Platini was a great scorer with great playmaking abilities

    Regarding the vision: slight advantage to Zizou; just look at EDF matches without Zizou: Henry and Trezegol go AWOL
    If it wasn't for Zizou as a lance-missile....

    But again, hard to compare because they set up their teammates in different manners; Platini would set up his temmates with great long passes, while Zidane would get rid of 2 defendes with a roulette and have 2 open teammates on a 2 on 1 situation

    Finally for the clutch part, I'd go with Zidane for his two finalizations in WC final but also his finalization of the champions league final (2002).
    Yep

    What definately close the debate for me is self control, Zidane has always had craziness moments see WC 2006 or the game against South Africa in 98. Platini has never had this kind of loss of control.
    No debate

    But Zidane has Algerian blood; we are a bunch of psychos



    And when it came to dribbling abilities, it's safe to say that Zizou was better

  10. #70
    I don't have limits sonic21's Avatar
    My Team
    Paris Saint-Germain FC
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    4,090
    Except that Zidane won the WC
    so did guivarch.

    Except that Zidane led France to the Euro Cup 2 years after winning the WC
    according to the fifa, henry was the best player.


  11. #71
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
    My Team
    Real Madrid CF
    Post Count
    83,484
    so did guivarch.
    Damn

    according to the fifa, henry was the best player.

    It's FIFA; it's like trusting the NBA

  12. #72
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
    My Team
    Mexico
    Post Count
    8,973
    Messi is poised to have the same type of World Cup run that Maradona had in 1986...

    -the National team struggles during the CONMEBOL preliminaries... barely makes the World Cup... only to win it all because its star player, is playing quasar-level ball, and peaking at just the right time... Messi is that good.

    IMO Messi has a million times more class than Maradona though... he is by far the humbler player even though he is the planet's best player today... and for being a top 5 player during the last 5 years...
    _____________________________




    The Spurs are simply winners... Dynasty??? Nah... A Spurs Empire..!

    1999 2003 2005 2007 2014

  13. #73
    LMA oh ffadicted's Avatar
    My Team
    Brazil
    Post Count
    8,107
    Messi is poised to have the same type of World Cup run that Maradona had in 1986...

    -the National team struggles during the CONMEBOL preliminaries... barely makes the World Cup... only to win it all because its star player, is playing quasar-level ball, and peaking at just the right time... Messi is that good.

    IMO Messi has a million times more class than Maradona though... he is by far the humbler player even though he is the planet's best player today... and for being a top 5 player during the last 5 years...
    Dude, Argentina isn't going anywhere in the world cup, and Messi kinda sucked in qualifiers



    Where do you live ? I'm french and I'm living in Campinas since 2005, my contract will expire end of 2010.
    I'm living in Canada now

    Born and raised in Rio de Janeiro though, proud Tricolor Carioca Moved couple years ago. I wanna go back hoooome haha

  14. #74
    Corpus Christi Spurs Fan Phenomanul's Avatar
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    Mexico
    Post Count
    8,973
    Dude, Argentina isn't going anywhere in the world cup, and Messi kinda sucked in qualifiers
    That's what they said about Argentina before the '86 World Cup.... and then they won the tournament.

  15. #75
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
    My Team
    Real Madrid CF
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    83,484
    Dude, Argentina isn't going anywhere in the world cup, and Messi kinda sucked in qualifiers



    I'm living in Canada now

    Born and raised in Rio de Janeiro though, proud Tricolor Carioca Moved couple years ago. I wanna go back hoooome haha
    Where are you in Canada?

  16. #76
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
    My Team
    France
    Post Count
    25,781
    That's what they said about Argentina before the '86 World Cup.... and then they won the tournament.
    I'm sorry but I cannot imagine Argentina winning with Maradona as a coach. If your team has a coach like Maradona or Domenech your only hope is: a great player to take over the team by himself (see Zidane in 2006 or Platini in 84 or Dunga in 94...). Messi is not yet this kind of player too young to overcome a poor coach and to take the leadership of a whole team.

    I hope I'm wrong as I said earlier after France I will root for Argentina !

  17. #77
    Chunky Brazil's Avatar
    My Team
    France
    Post Count
    25,781
    Where are you in Canada?
    Canada sucks too cold ! Brazil rocks too hot !

  18. #78
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
    My Team
    Real Madrid CF
    Post Count
    38,186
    comparing ronaldinho to messi? one player looks like on the downside of his career while the other is peaking into his career....

    how long was ronaldinhos prime or peak seasons compared to messi?

  19. #79
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
    My Team
    Real Madrid CF
    Post Count
    83,484
    Canada sucks too cold ! Brazil rocks too hot !
    I ve been to Brazil and I wasnt impressed

  20. #80
    ┌∩┐(●_●)┌∩┐ DAF86's Avatar
    My Team
    CA River Plate
    Post Count
    25,270
    Dude, Argentina isn't going anywhere in the world cup, and Messi kinda sucked in qualifiers
    Like Phenomanul said: Argentina wasn't expected to win it all in '86 either and Maradona sucked on those qualifiers too. That's why I still have a little faith on this team, too many coincidences, plus the fact that in the World Cups very rarely the teams that enter the tournament as favourites end up winning it all, in the WCs the teams that do well are those with history but that weren't seen as contenders at the beggining of the event (Italy, France and Germany in 2006, Brazil and Germany in 2002, Argentina in 1986, Argentina in 1990, etc.)
    _____________________________

  21. #81
    ┌∩┐(●_●)┌∩┐ DAF86's Avatar
    My Team
    CA River Plate
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    25,270
    Canada sucks too cold ! Brazil rocks too hot !
    I hate places where the wheather is too hot. Like Pink Floyd, I wouldn't change a cool breeze for hot air.

  22. #82
    LMA oh ffadicted's Avatar
    My Team
    Brazil
    Post Count
    8,107
    Yeah I guess that's what they said about Brasil in 2002 as well. IDK though, I just don't feel it, obviously we'll have to wait at least until the group stage matches are done to get a feel of where teams are going.

    I live in New Brunswick canada, and I agree canada sucks too cold lol... I want my 30 degree winters back.

    @ lefty: where did you go/time of the year

  23. #83
    LONG LIVE THE CHIEF lefty's Avatar
    My Team
    Real Madrid CF
    Post Count
    83,484
    Yeah I guess that's what they said about Brasil in 2002 as well. IDK though, I just don't feel it, obviously we'll have to wait at least until the group stage matches are done to get a feel of where teams are going.

    I live in New Brunswick canada, and I agree canada sucks too cold lol... I want my 30 degree winters back.

    @ lefty: where did you go/time of the year
    I live in Montreal

    It's usually freezing in winter, but this year it has been very mild

    But I dont care, Montreal is an amazing city

    And I`m used to living near the beach; I'm Algerian and lived in Algeria, Morocco, Turkey, France

    But New Brunswick sucks ass, I feel your pain

    By the way, the Lakers-Spurs game in on TheScore tonight

  24. #84
    ┌∩┐(●_●)┌∩┐ DAF86's Avatar
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    CA River Plate
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    Bump worthy, imho.

  25. #85
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
    Post Count
    12,899
    3 goals in about 20 minutes... the man is not of this world

  26. #86
    Duncan 'til I die admiralfats's Avatar
    Post Count
    212
    pretty unbelievable. poor arsenal.

  27. #87
    Veteran Libri's Avatar
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    Club de Futbol America
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    11,209
    La Pulga es un gigante.

  28. #88
    CDs Nuts. resistanze's Avatar
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    Arsenal FC
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    21,661
    You know that feeling you get when you're at a buffet on someone else's dime? That's how Messi feels looking at Arsenal's D.
    _____________________________
    Code:
    Originally Posted by Timvp
    
    Hanging yourself by your junk puts you into a separate category.

  29. #89
    ┌∩┐(●_●)┌∩┐ DAF86's Avatar
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    CA River Plate
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    25,270

  30. #90
    Ain't over 'till its over MaNuMaNiAc's Avatar
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    12,899
    4 goals in one champions league game...

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