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  1. #951
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    "Real" climate scientists have their blogs too.

    See http://www.realclimate.org/

    So, no need to put something down because it is a blog.
    There is every need to put it down because it is a blog, as opposed to peer-reviewed science.

    If the guy actually does a study of data, and puts forth an idea in a scientific journal, then more power to him.

    That way someone far more qualified than you or I can subject it to some sort of review more rigorous than a spellcheck.

    Blogs aren't even subject to that.
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  2. #952
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    There is every need to put it down because it is a blog, as opposed to peer-reviewed science.

    If the guy actually does a study of data, and puts forth an idea in a scientific journal, then more power to him.

    That way someone far more qualified than you or I can subject it to some sort of review more rigorous than a spellcheck.

    Blogs aren't even subject to that.


    Guy with a blog and peer-reviewed research. This guy basically destroyed the "hockey stick" reconstruction.

    http://climateaudit.org/



    EDIT> I can't make this up. This ad was actually on this guy's website:

    Ads by Google

    Official Climate Website
    Al Gore Needs Your Help to Repower America. Learn More!
    RepowerAmerica.org
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  3. #953
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    By the way, I have published articles in peer-reviewed journals. It's not that difficult to do.
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  4. #954
    Veteran temujin's Avatar
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    By the way, I have published articles in peer-reviewed journals. It's not that difficult to do.
    I read your nice article in the ATOM.

    "American Textbook of Office Measurements."
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  5. #955
    Veteran temujin's Avatar
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    So we shifted from WHETHER global warming happens at all,

    to HOW MUCH global warming.

    In about 2 pages we'll get to what causes it.
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  6. #956
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    By the way, I have published articles in peer-reviewed journals. It's not that difficult to do.
    That warming skeptics have published so few papers in peer-reviewed journals makes this a particularly damning statement for them, doesn't it?

    Either it is all one giant conspiracy in which good science is surpressed, or the skeptical science is pretty ty, or the skeptics are either lazy or incompetant.

    Have I missed a possibility?
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  7. #957
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    That warming skeptics have published so few papers in peer-reviewed journals makes this a particularly damning statement for them, doesn't it?

    Either it is all one giant conspiracy in which good science is surpressed, or the skeptical science is pretty ty, or the skeptics are either lazy or incompetant.

    Have I missed a possibility?
    Perhaps skeptics are just getting warmed up?






    warm.. HA!
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  8. #958
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    That warming skeptics have published so few papers in peer-reviewed journals makes this a particularly damning statement for them, doesn't it?

    Either it is all one giant conspiracy in which good science is surpressed, or the skeptical science is pretty ty, or the skeptics are either lazy or incompetant.

    Have I missed a possibility?




    From: Phil Jones <[email protected]>
    To: "Michael E. Mann" <[email protected]>
    Subject: HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
    Date: Thu Jul 8 16:30:16 2004


    blah blah blah

    ...

    I can't see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow - even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is !
    Cheers
    Phil



    By the way RG, do you think it is valid for experts in mathematics, statistics, computer modeling, etc. to challenge the use of these tools by "climate scientists"? I can tell you first hand that Michael Mann (a.k.a. Hockey Stick boy) is a ty computer programmer.
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  9. #959
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    So we shifted from WHETHER global warming happens at all,

    to HOW MUCH global warming.

    In about 2 pages we'll get to what causes it.


    As I've already pointed out, the amount of "unprecedented warming in the last century" is on the order of measurement noise.
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  10. #960
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    I read your nice article in the ATOM.

    "American Textbook of Office Measurements."

    Actually, I am a mechanical engineer and computer modeler. No offense taken by your ignorance.
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  11. #961
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    So, just to ask, if it DID continue to shift warmer, at what point would it have some consequences? How many degrees?
    That I don't know. However, the slow shift in the earth eccentricity over the next 26,000 years will provide more warming than we could ever try to cool.

    We simply cannot compete with nature.
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  12. #962
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Ahhh sorry. I meant to say 1 degree each century. Thanks for calling me on that.



    Why point out that 1 degree is inconsequential then? If you think it's going to shift back, would it matter if it were 1 degree or 5?
    Maybe because according to paleontological records, we are still about 2C lower than the highest temperature.
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  13. #963
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Wild Cobra will have to work harder and harder to massage his figures to show that the sun is responsible for these effects, as the sun continues its pretty predictable short-term cycles.
    Maybe you need to understand what "lag" is. What the data suggest to me is that only about half the solar effect is seen by 70 years, and the remaining half takes a few hundred.
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  14. #964
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    If the global catastophists didn't want to tax energy during a worldwide economic slump, I could care less what they believe.

    It's just more hypochondria of the western world. I heard the same growing up the 70's. Same , different environmental boogeyman.
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  15. #965
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/03/0...arbon-dioxide/


    Except that the climate sensitivity to CO2 is logarithmic.

    Retty similar to the work I did:

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  16. #966
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Agreed, feedback has to be factored in to see claim CO2 as high as it is. Feedback from solar warming increasing the humidity.'

    Oh... Something extremely important...

    The greenhouse effect is a feedback of the solar energy. So you are talking about a feedback on a feedback...
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  17. #967
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Oddly enough, so is exponential growth.

    Log1.025(2)=28.1 This was, essentially, the log I used to determine how long it takes to double CO2 emissions.

    Your skeptical meteorologist is free to publish his blog posts as article in peer reviewed journals. He should get cracking, so actual scientists can evaluate his claims. I sincerely hope he does.
    LOL...

    That was the standard model accepted by climatologist.

    You should learn what you speak of. The article simply used their own method against them.
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  18. #968
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Science must end climate confusion
    VIEWPOINT
    Richard Betts


    <snip>
    LOL...

    I agree to this extent... They must start showing us the data and methodology, and stop the confusing lies.
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  19. #969
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is !
    By the way RG, do you think it is valid for experts in mathematics, statistics, computer modeling, etc. to challenge the use of these tools by "climate scientists"? I can tell you first hand that Michael Mann (a.k.a. Hockey Stick boy) is a ty computer programmer.
    And they have redefined what peer review is, that's why their material is not trustworthy.
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  20. #970
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Retty similar to the work I did:

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  21. #971
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    If the global catastophists didn't want to tax energy during a worldwide economic slump, I could care less what they believe.

    It's just more hypochondria of the western world. I heard the same growing up the 70's. Same , different environmental boogeyman.
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  22. #972
    Veteran DarrinS's Avatar
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    Climate change laws are doing wonders for California's economy.


    Nice map though.
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  23. #973
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Climate change laws are doing wonders for California's economy.


    Are you working on your Fox "news" talking point merit badge or something?

    There have been studies concerning the impact of those policies that show both losses and gains. Both seem to be a bit flawed and political.

    The truth is likely a bit more complicated than your soundbite might suggest, party line aside.

    Speaking of aside, AGW or not, we will be faced with reducing our carbon emissions anyways, here is an interesting article I dug up concerning that.
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  24. #974
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Harder, better, faster, stronger

    BILL MCKIBBEN noted last month that the political system is not generating results that are in line with what climate scientists are saying about the rapidity of global warming. And that's true. People have a pretty limited ability to assimilate information and incorporate it into a social consensus, and global economic growth is altering the planet a lot faster than we're altering our politics. Something similar apparently happened on Easter Island a while back.

    But on a brighter note, there's something else that's changing a lot faster than people are capable of assimilating: the science and technology of how to slow global warming. People just don't seem to realise how easy it would be to dramatically reduce carbon emissions. Two f'rinstances:

    Dave Leonhardt reports in today's New York Times on the Obama administration's growing enthusiasm for a "cash-for-caulkers" programme to subsidise home weatherisation. Two versions of the idea are being promoted by John Doerr, a Silicon Valley venture capitalist, and Bill Clinton. The Doerr plan would spend $23 billion over two years to subsidise half the cost to homeowners of home weatherisation, which generally costs $2,000 to $4,000 per home. The Clinton plan would use money from the stimulus bill that hasn't been spent yet, and covers commercial buildings as well as homes. Weatherisation puts unemployed construction contractors to work, and generally pays for itself within a decade in lower energy costs. More important, buildings generate more CO2 than the transportation sector does.

    A McKinsey report in July concluded America could spend $520 billion on improving buildings' energy efficiency through 2020, reap $1.2 trillion in energy savings, and reduce CO2 emissions by 1.1 gigatonnes per year—the equivalent of taking every car and light truck off America's roads.
    If weatherising buildings saves money, why aren't people already doing it? The McKinsey report explains that extremely well:

    Energy efficiency measures typically require a substantial upfront investment in exchange for savings that accrue over the lifetime of the deployed measures. Additionally, efficiency potential is highly fragmented, spread across more than 100 million locations and billions of devices used in residential, commercial, and industrial settings... Finally, measuring and verifying energy not consumed is by its nature difficult.

    So there you go: lots of potential for saving energy, if you can organise people with the right incentives. Which brings us to our second easier-than-people-realise global-warming fighter: dispersed generation of electricity from solar photovoltaic panels. Todd Woody writes at Grist.org that thin-film solar panels have evolved so fast and dropped so rapidly in price that industry analysts like Black & Veatch are having to rewrite their reports.

    In short, solar panel prices have plummeted so much as to make viable the prospect of generating gigawatts of electricity from rooftops and photovoltaic farms built near cities.
    “This has pretty significant implications in terms of transmission planning,” Ryan Pletka, Black & Veatch’s renewable energy project manager, told me last week. “What we thought would happen in a five-year time frame has happened in one year.”

    California has mandated 60,000 gigawatt hours of renewable-energy electric generation by 2020. Originally, "distributed generation" (ie, photovoltaic cells on homeowners' and businesses' roofs and buildings) wasn't supposed to play much of a role in that goal; instead the state relied on huge new solar projects out in the desert, which in turn required large transmission projects to bring the electricity to cities. But with the drop in price for thin-film solar panels, it may now be cheaper and faster to pay urban homeowners and businesses to deploy solar panels and feed their electricity into the grid than to build giant projects far from cities. Just last year, Black & Veatch estimated distributed generation could meet just 2,000 megawatt hours; Mr Pletka now estimates it could contribute 40,000 gigawatt hours, or two-thirds of the total demand.

    So, yeah, things are moving too fast, and we can't keep up. But some of the things that are moving too fast to keep up with are going in the right direction.

    (2009)
    http://www.economist.com/blogs/democ...aster_stronger
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  25. #975
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    I've been begging for localized photovoltiac to be more of an option. That is so logical.
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