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  1. #31
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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  2. #32
    Scrumtrulescent
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    Yep. Everyone is going to get burned on this.

  3. #33
    Believe.
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    Why piss only on public-sector underfunding?

    Underfunded private-sector pension plans threaten the retirement security of millions of Americans

    http://www.milkeninstitute.org/newsr...el1=new&ID=200

    Private Pensions Evade Honest Accounting

    http://www.realclearmarkets.com/arti...ing_99749.html

  4. #34
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Because the OP was discussing State Pension plans?
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    Originally Posted by WC
    "...but it was your assumption that assumed I made an assumption"
    Originally Posted by boutons_deux
    ...you're not curious about anything outside of your close-minded, benighted blind ideology.

  5. #35
    Believe.
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    Because the OP was discussing State Pension plans?
    Why is always only the govt that gets pissed on around here, while the UCA gets a pass?

    TB

  6. #36
    Scrumtrulescent
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    Private sector pensions will work themselves out. Either the private sector providers and beneficiaries will work out an arrangement that allows the company to survive, or the company will just go bankrupt and everybody loses.

    Public sector pensions are the far bigger problem because there's no threat of public sector entities facing a bankruptcy that results in liquidation.

  7. #37
    Not Koolaid_Man Homeland Security's Avatar
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    The American people will hold onto their overinflated standard of living with a death grip until the day everything falls apart.
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  8. #38
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Why is always only the govt that gets pissed on around here, while the UCA gets a pass?

    TB
    You've got your low content VRWC thread. Enjoy, bot.

  9. #39
    Fan Since 1973 Twisted_Dawg's Avatar
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    This is what it will be all about:

    5.Allow employers and participants to negotiate reductions in accrued benefits in appropriate circumstances. Current law prohibits reductions in accrued benefits, but employees might rationally conclude that a reduced annuitized benefit and additional job security would be preferable if the ability of the employer to meet its obligations over the long-term is less certain.

    None of the pension funds can ever catch up to their requirements:

    State financial authorities are betting the pension assets they now manage will get better returns as the U.S. economy recovers and stock and bond markets improve. If so, states can take advantage of today’s ultralow borrowing costs to strengthen their retirement plans now—and pay off the debt later when pension funds generate returns robust enough to more than cover their annual payouts. This strategy could backfire if state retirement fund returns don’t rebound. Recent history isn’t encouraging: In the decade through June 2010, the nation’s biggest state retirement systems earned less than half of what they needed to keep up with pension obligations, according to a Bloomberg survey. Borrowing to pay pension benefits “is risky for a government,” says Douglas Wood, Fort Lauderdale’s director of finance. “If the market stays down and the pension systems don’t earn their fair share on their return, then over time the city has to make that up” from its general budget.

  10. #40
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Oh well, they'll just have to save for their own retirement like the rest of us private sector folks.
    I'm pretty sure if you were promised a pension from your company, you'd be rather annoyed if it fell through.
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  11. #41
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure if you were promised a pension from your company, you'd be rather annoyed if it fell through.
    Very true. Still, anyone who doesn't see the possibility that they may outlive a company is pretty stupid. Everyone should plan for their own advanced years. Same with state pensions since that cannot print money like the feds.

    On a side note, are you aware of the SS laws for military personnel? Did you join before 2002?

    Check this out:

    Retirement Planner: Special Extra Earnings For Military Service
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  12. #42
    Cold-Ass Honkie RandomGuy's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure if you were promised a pension from your company, you'd be rather annoyed if it fell through.
    Private companies have already raided and plundered the pension plans and retirement funds already. It was one of the rather more shocking wealth transfers that you don't hear about. Managements of companies in the private sector pumped up quarterly profits by waving accounting wands to produce "estimates" in their favor when it came time to fund the pension plans.

    You didn't hear about this, because managments and the rubberstamp BOD's went along with it behind closed doors.

    The only reason you know about it for public sector employees is because it is well "public".

    Essentially Darrin is saying "well, private companies stole from us when we weren't looking, so that is good enough for public employees too".

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  13. #43
    Cogito Ergo Sum LnGrrrR's Avatar
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    Very true. Still, anyone who doesn't see the possibility that they may outlive a company is pretty stupid. Everyone should plan for their own advanced years. Same with state pensions since that cannot print money like the feds.

    On a side note, are you aware of the SS laws for military personnel? Did you join before 2002?

    Check this out:

    Retirement Planner: Special Extra Earnings For Military Service

    Yes, I joined in 1999. I'll check that link out, thanks.

  14. #44
    Believe.
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    " Everyone should plan for their own advanced years"

    A majority of American households live paycheck to paycheck, thanks to the War on Employees and Unions holding everybody's incomes static. How many people can afford to put away 5% or 10% of their income into savings. And of course, financial sector fees will eat into their savings, anyway, which is why the Repugs/Wall St want SS funds to be funneled to them.

  15. #45
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    " Everyone should plan for their own advanced years"

    A majority of American households live paycheck to paycheck, thanks to the War on Employees and Unions holding everybody's incomes static. How many people can afford to put away 5% or 10% of their income into savings. And of course, financial sector fees will eat into their savings, anyway, which is why the Repugs/Wall St want SS funds to be funneled to them.
    Believe as you wish.

    Mutual funds usually do pretty good.

  16. #46
    Believe.
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    Private sector pensions will work themselves out. Either the private sector providers and beneficiaries will work out an arrangement that allows the company to survive, or the company will just go bankrupt and everybody loses.

    Public sector pensions are the far bigger problem because there's no threat of public sector entities facing a bankruptcy that results in liquidation.
    who picks up the tabs for the municipalities in CA, that have already declared bankruptcies ?

  17. #47
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    For years, state and local governments have been playing imaginative or patently dishonest games with their pension funds, thinking they could get away with it. But now the chickens are coming home to roost, as federal authorities have begun cracking down on corruption and mismanagement.

    The modus operandi was much the same in state after state: government officials underfunding or skimming retiree pension funds to meet other more immediate costs; financial officers papering over or hiding the extent of the funding shortfalls; and private financial managers exaggerating the return they could deliver on pension fund investments while often leaving the fund vulnerable to unexpected market swings.


    State pensions, still feeling the pain of the Great Recession, are now underfunded to the tune of more than $4 trillion, according to State Budget Solutions, a non-partisan fiscal watchdog.


    In the past week alone, government officials and private investment groups with major government contracts have learned hard lessons about the risks of playing fast and loose with the government retirement systems:

    • The Securities and Exchange Commission charged Illinois with securities fraud following years in which state officials misled investors and shortchanged the state pension system and stuck future generations of taxpayers with the staggering bill. The suit was part of a larger push by the SEC to bring greater transparency and accountability to the municipal bond market, according to the Wall Street Journal.

    • A federal grand jury indicted the former CEO and former board member of the $232 billion California Public Employees’ Retirement System on bribery and influence peddling charges. The indictment accuses them of unduly using their influence to defraud a giant equity firm of millions of dollars.

    • The nearly bankrupt city of Detroit was placed under a state financial overseer after years of mismanagement, corruption and obfuscation of major obligations – including billions of dollars in retiree health costs. Federal authorities meanwhile charged two former pension officials with bribery and accepting kickbacks.
    Read more at http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/Articl...kMTFKLcy2pv.99

  18. #48
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    cool link

    Debt Ceiling

    Because all federal spending and taxes must be approved by both houses of Congress and the executive branch, a separate debt ceiling that has to be increased periodically creates unneeded uncertainty and can potentially lead to worse fiscal outcomes.

    http://www.igmchicago.org/igm-econom...55sdN4BXmfNKCN

  19. #49
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    relevance?

  20. #50
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    [Update 14th Feb 2014: Following Pando's exposé, PBS has announced it will return John Arnold's $3.5m donation.]


    On December 18th, the Public Broadcasting Service’s flagship station WNET issued a press release announcing the launch of a new two-year news series entitled “The Pension Peril.” The series, promoting cuts to public employee pensions, is airing on hundreds of PBS outlets all over the nation. It has been presented as objective news on major PBS programs including the PBS News Hour.


    However, neither the WNET press release nor the broadcasted segments explicitly disclosed who is financing the series. Pando has exclusively confirmed that “The Pension Peril” is secretly funded by former Enron trader John Arnold, a billionaire political powerbroker who is actively trying to shape the very pension policy that the series claims to be dispassionately covering.


    In recent years, Arnold has been using massive contributions to politicians, Super PACs, ballot initiative efforts, think tanks and local front groups to finance a nationwide political campaign aimed at slashing public employees’ retirement benefits. His foundation which backs his efforts employs top Republican political operatives, including the former chief of staff to GOP House Majority Leader Dick Armey (TX). According to its own promotional materials, the Arnold Foundation is pushing lawmakers in states across the country “to stop promising a (retirement) benefit” to public employees.


    Despite Arnold’s pension-slashing activism and his foundation’s ties to partisan politics, Leila Walsh, a spokesperson for the Laura and John Arnold Foundation (LJAF), told Pando that PBS officials were not hesitant to work with them, even though PBS’s own very clear rules prohibit such blatant conflicts. (note: the term “PBS officials” refers interchangeably to both PBS officials and officials from PBS flagship affiliate WNET who were acting on behalf of the entire PBS system).


    To the contrary, the Arnold Foundation spokesperson tells Pando that it was PBS officials who first initiated contact with Arnold in the Spring of 2013. She says those officials actively solicited Arnold to finance the broadcaster’s proposal for a new pension-focused series. According to the spokesperson, they solicited Arnold’s support based specifically on their knowledge of his push to slash pension benefits for public employees.


    The foundation’s spokesperson said PBS executives approached Arnold “with the proposal for the series, having become aware of LJAF’s interest” in shaping public pension policy, and moving that policy toward cutting retirement benefits for public workers.
    According to newly posted disclosures about its 2013 grantmaking, the Laura and John Arnold Foundation responded to PBS’s tailored proposal by donating a whopping $3.5 million to WNET, the PBS flagship station that is coordinating the “Pension Peril” series for distribution across the country. The $3.5 million, which is earmarked for “educat(ing) the public about public employees’ retirement benefits,” is one of the foundation’s largest single disclosed expenditures. WNET spokesperson Kellie Specter confirmed to Pando that the huge sum makes Arnold the “anchor/lead funder of the initiative.” A single note buried on PBS’s website – but not repeated in such explicit terms on PBS airwaves – confirms that the money is directly financing the “Pension Peril” series.
    http://pando.com/2014/02/12/the-wolf...news-division/

  21. #51
    Believe.
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    who picks up the tabs for the municipalities in CA, that have already declared bankruptcies ?
    The federal Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp may come into play, as it did for Delphi.



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