I miss the 1/2 hr News hour...
The other differences are a tad more hard to define.
Electric motors, even with a limited battery life, are cheaper and simpler than complex combustion engines.
It is entirely possible that, even with battery replacement, the electric motor's reliability will keep it from the breakdowns that a gasoline engine would be prone to at higher mileages.
The added bonus for me is that five years down the road, you would be able to take advantage of newer battery tech that would extend the life of a charge markedly.
Another point to remember:
You can either have gas at $8.89 to make it work out, or simply use the car twice as much.
If one uses the car for 30,000 miles/year, that would mean your break even point would be $4.44, not quite as far off.
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra:
"it is possible that warming for windmills vs. CO2 is about equal, and that the windmills will change the wind/climate in ways worse than CO2 ever could."
I have no doubt that environmental regulations limit the amount of energy we dig up/drill to some small degree.
You imply that degree is very large, and use that for the underlying assumption of your question.
I'm not asking for a down to the joule measurement, but a rough %.
How much higher would our fossil fuel production be in your mind if the big bad government would just get out of the way, as you advocate? 10%, 20%, etc?
What strains credibility is your seeming assertion that a country holding reserves of 2% of global supply could ever increase production enough to make a dent in overall global oil supplies.
As I said, either you can start to flesh out your assertion, or you can't prove it to some reasonable degree.
The burden is yours.
I would have thought it was common sense that if your main goal is to save money then a 40k vehicle is not your best option. That might just be my amazing analytical skills at work though.
"40k vehicle is not your best option"
TCO is the calculation, not purchase price
Crushing humanity, one post at a time.
I like long walks, especially when they are taken by people who annoy me.
Pop-Tart® found in drive D: Delete Kids? Y/n
Officially Noted By Agloco
Originally Posted by WC
"...but it was your assumption that assumed I made an assumption"
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
...you're not curious about anything outside of your close-minded, benighted blind ideology.
Purchasing a Volt has nothing to do about saving money…It is about saving the planet…Getting a leg up on electric vehicles which are here to stay…Not to mention cashing in on the 7500 Federal tax credit…
Woof. Figure in that tax credit and my initial estimate was not too far off.
Someone at work purchased the Nissan version…And there is nowhere to plug it in once he gets here…At least the Volt has more range…
Also, I read an environmental impact study on the life cycle impact of an electric car with a Lithium Ion battery that said the only way an internal combustion vehicle could compete in that area would be to get about 70 mpg.
I do, however agree with the premise of the article and I think the Leaf is a much better option anyway since it makes more fiscal and environmental sense. Leading to this truism. . .
Well all that glitters is not gold. They have a bright future, but for now the golden gate is closed.
SEIS DE Maynu!
Well it looks like the Lake(rs) done dried themselves up, but at least they have a fishing boat over on the lower left corner to keep them busy in the offseason. Looks like it needs a little cleaning, but I am sure that there are enough brooms to take care of that task.
I am riding in the MS150 for San Antonio in October of this year. Part of it includes raising funds that get donated to help fund MS research. If you would like to donate my team please go click on this link and click the "Donate" button on the right of the screen. Thank you.
Fuck our team, clown!
Am I wrong?
Another interesting thing that one has to consider, is how easy it would be to steal electricity.
All you have to do is find a parking spot near some building with one of those little ubiquitous external outlets and hitch up.
Or, for example, bribing an electrician to bypass your home meter for the one circuit your car happens to charge on.
A ground level apartment with utilities included would also make for a cheap "fill up".
If all you need is an extension cord to do this, yikes.
Yeah we discussed all of this. We talked about how the average person rarely drives more than the range on a daily basis, we talked about how it would be smarter to buy a 12k compact car if you're trying to save money on gas, and pretty much everything that has been brought up.
Spurstalk is nothing if not redundant.
That's pretty small change to even think about policing.
Lithium mining: cleaner than coal, but….
Now don't believe a blogger's compilation of information. How about this:
The Trouble with Lithium; Implications of Future PHEV Production for Lithium Demand; part of the executive summary:
The trouble with Lithium 2; Under the MicroscopeLithium Ion batteries are rapidly becoming the technology of choice for the next generation of Electric Vehicles - Hybrid, Plug In Hybrid and Battery EVs. The automotive industry is committed increasingly to Electrified Vehicles to provide Sustainable Mobility in the next decade. LiIon is the preferred battery technology to power these vehicles.
To achieve required cuts in oil consumption, a significant percentage of the world automobile fleet of 1 billion vehicles will be electrified in the coming decade. Ultimately all production, currently 60 Million vehicles per year, will be replaced with highly electrified vehicles – PHEVs and BEVs.
Analysis of Lithium's geological resource base shows that there is insufficient economically recoverable Lithium available in the Earth's crust to sustain Electric Vehicle manufacture in the volumes required, based solely on LiIon batteries. Depletion rates would exceed current oil depletion rates and switch dependency from one diminishing resource to another. Concentration of supply would create new geopolitical tensions, not reduce them.
Now as green vehicles go, the volt is #12 of 12:
Greenest Vehicles of 2011
Now I had a source reference for the 2/3rds freshwater thing, but closed it. Not going through my history to find it again.
So using up 2/3rds a nations regional freshwater to be the largest supplier of lithium is not a large environmental impact?
I'll bet the fish think otherwise.
Last edited by Wild Cobra; 03-01-2011 at 02:21 PM.
Its too bad you can't find that source. Searching your history would likely take less time than the reply you make to this post.
I think the "using 2/3 water" was probably a reference to ethanol production, or possibly to that of using water at power plants.
Since 75% of the US population lives within 100 miles of coastline or something like that, I think we can probably invest some in desalinisation, or will be forced to do that.
Bioractor units working prototypes.
Mass. company making diesel with sun, water, CO2
Found that bit. They are taking a slightly different approach, read the full article for details. Not using algae but rather a different bug, with different charactoristics.CAMBRIDGE, Mass. – A Massachusetts biotechnology company says it can produce the fuel that runs Jaguars and jet engines using the same ingredients that make grass grow.
Joule Unlimited has invented a genetically-engineered organism that it says simply secretes diesel fuel or ethanol wherever it finds sunlight, water and carbon dioxide.
The Cambridge, Mass.-based company says it can manipulate the organism to produce the renewable fuels on demand at unprecedented rates, and can do it in facilities large and small at costs comparable to the cheapest fossil fuels.
Lets just look at it the way. The Volt is rated at 2.81 miles per kwh. Many vehicles are rated at 28 MPG, so 10 kwh at 10 cents a kwh is $1.00 vs the price of a gallon of gas.
Does paying $1 per gallon equivalent work for most people when limited to 45 miles the first month, and capacity gets smaller and smaller as the battery life diminishes?
How many people have houses that can charge the thing at any decent rate anyway? What is the efficiency? The ratings above are what the car uses. Howver, it probably costs 12 KWHs or more to get a 10 KWH charge. A daily 12 KWH usage for 5 hours at 220 volts would require an 11 amp draw. Hope you turn your water heater and dryer off while charging, or rewire your house.
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