Church of Kawhi Leonard

[MaNu4Tres]

Thinking we are going to go anywhere without Kawhi's scoring in the playoffs is ing idiotic. It's embarrassing really. And Back then We had Manu and Tony in facilitating roles. Not just one ing guy. I don't know why manutres keeps blaming Kawhi for lack of facilitator like somehow Kawhi is supposed to facilitate enough for Prime Tony and Manu combined.

Are you a ing moron?

Maybe you can't comprehend. Have you ever thought of that? That is embarrassing really.

Heaven forbid anyone critique Kawhi's game and point at his weaknesses. There's some blind homer fans that don't understand the game deep enough.

Kawhi can score just fine without 30+% usage with most being in a PnR. There's other ways to put him in advantageous opportunities than a PnR. At the end of the day, it's about the end result of shots created -- how its manufactured as a label is secondary. In most PnR cir stances, Kawhi is essentially the same as Kawhi in the post. It's not just a coincidence that whenever Kawhi initiates offense in the post or < 12 ft from the basket this year he scores at a 57% clip.

I personally would like to see Gasol feed Kawhi from the strong side perimeter with Kawhi posting up in 3 down and have the two other wings on the weakside with Aldridge in the dunker spot. Instead it's usually Danny or Tony feeding Kawhi and Gasol and Aldridge are on the opposite side of the lane. ( Not great spacing).

[dabom]

Maybe you can't comprehend. Have you ever thought of that? That is embarrassing really.

Kawhi can score just fine without 30+% usage with most being in a PnR. There's other ways to put him in advantageous opportunities than a PnR. In most PnR cir stances, Kawhi in the PnR is essentially the same as Kawhi in the post. It's not just a coincidence that whenever Kawhi initiates offense in the post or < 12 ft from the basket THIS YEAR he scores at a 57% clip.

You've said Kawhi facilitating doesn't work from other years. I'm pointing out that we have just one facilitator and KAwhi is not the problem. This is on ongoing discussion. Not to do with your previous comment.

[dabom]

Should I bump them?

[apalisoc_9]

Thats the thing though, the good teams and most teams almost always hedge to a degree and that's Kawhi's problem -- he has problem getting around the corner on hedges and his man recovers in time because Kawhi's lack of acceleration and quickness. Teams would have to be stupid to prioritize defending the Pop from a big and not the drive from Kawhi -- that is why you saw OKC usually double Kawhi off the PnP last year in the playoffs until Roberson fully recovered ( which wasn't hard to do). Then worse case for the opposition, the big in the play would be a little late in contesting a mid range Pop from West or Aldridge ( which is something all smart teams should be willing to live with).

Another thing, one aspect of Kawhi being ALL IN on defense that people don't realize is how it helps the offense. Having him zoned in and allocating most of his energy defensively creates more transition opportunities and easy points. In the long run, especially in the playoffs, optimizing in this aspect is a huge edge to have.

PATFO is banking on his ability to score on those situations. He can either get the big with him or just take a shot. It's also the reason why they had him improve his ability to get fouls because that another way to frustrate wing defendes and bigs.

He's also running alot of PnR because We just dont have alternartives. Numbers suggest he's still more than likely going to get a higher PPP than Parker-Ginobili or Mills even if he's just purely a scorer.

I'm Sure PATFO knows how devastating the offense can be when Kawhi is a moster on Defense and i think its pretty evident with our first quarter starts when Gasol-Parker-Aldridge are usually the ones creating shots while Kawhi gets his out of rotations to save his energy on defense..the only issue is that porker is not good enough to create shots for the bigs. Ask Pau..He was visibly and expressed his frustrations for the lack of Guards that can create in this team.

But outside of X and Os...PATFO obviously values his hardwork that his other teamates show a lack off..(save for Timmy). Mills, Parker, Gasol, Aldridge etc all coming in out of shape, other players not improving when they should be the ones improving more. It leaves a foul mouth to any player when you come in the season significantly improved, the only guy in shape and you happen to also be the best player on the team. Kawhi is human too..Under those conditions ALL players would eventually have a falling out with the organizations.

It also sets a terrible example teamwise. You cant reward out of shape players and diminish hardworking guys with ambition...Aldridge had his chance to keep his 1B satus, he.blew it by coming in out of shape. Now its more like 1, 2A and 2B with Pau eating his possesions.

Kawhi can be a more of a defensive player and get his shots elsewhere once everyone is in good physical condition. He's PATFO lesser worries. They know he does things so they can win. They're not worried about his effort on D even if hes not involved on offense.

[MaNu4Tres]

You've said Kawhi facilitating doesn't work from other years. I'm pointing out that we have just one facilitator and KAwhi is not the problem. This is on ongoing discussion. Not to do with your previous comment.

I said his weakness is creating offense for others out of the PnR. And that I question how effective his PnRs truly are if the end result is almost always Kawhi with the ball shooting a contested shot or resetting the offense. Hardly ever do the Spurs get out a great shot for anyone else but Kawhi out of a Kawhi led PnR.

Does that mean Kawhi shouldn't score? You're clueless at times.

[dabom]

I said his weakness is creating offense for others out of the PnR. And that I question how effective his PnRs truly are if the end result is almost always Kawhi with the ball shooting a contested shot or resetting the offense. Hardly ever do the Spurs get out a great shot for anyone else but Kawhi out of a Kawhi led PnR.

Does that mean Kawhi shouldn't score? You're clueless at times.

You've actually blamed him for our offensive problems. Are you saying we have zero facilitators? Are you ing re ed?

[MaNu4Tres]

You've actually blamed him for our offensive problems. Are you saying we have zero facilitators? Are you ing re ed?

You're wrong again. That's called taking things out of context or not being able to comprehend.

I pointed out the reasons why Spurs have a tough time manufacturing good looks this year with the starting unit when he has the ball in PnRs.

Spurs will continue having a tough time getting out of the 2nd round having Kawhi be the man to do everything on both ends. He needs help and that's why I was pointing it out. Unlike you, I look at the big picture. I see through the great regular season records beating up on the 25 teams that are irrelevant. The offense does lack quality looks as a team with heavy Kawhi PnRs -- its very predictable and easy to exploit for the best teams ( but with 30%+ volume, Kawhi will still get his points that you 2k fans love. Truth is, Spurs won't win another championship until they get Kawhi help on the perimeter -- that's the next step for this franchise and hopefully they get it next summer. They need Kawhi to be ALL IN on D again, the huge responsibility on both ends is spreading himself too thin for as great as he is.

[GSH]

Damnation... solid basketball takes there. Seriously Apalisoc, and I mean this as a compliment - you drive me crazy sometimes with the damned click-bait thread starts, but then you post stuff like this.

Kawhi's scoring is up, but at the expense of just about everything else - especially his FG%. I agree with you about him being all-in on defense. Pop always says that good defense creates good offense. But poor offense turns into poor defense the same way. I think Kawhi could still get his points, but on a few less higher-percentage shots, and it would pay off on both ends of the floor.

I really question is ability to get there, because typically players need to have the foot speed, quickness, acceleration or elite level of change of direction to create the needed space to be a good creator from PnRs. Leonard has never had that and still doesn't til this day. Every pick and roll is either a mid range pull up off of separation from the pick (great screens), or its a physical fight with his upper body to get around the screen and into essentially an isolation ( or a complicated way to get into an isolation) -- which is the end result from a lot of PnR sets. Very rarely does Kawhi come clean off the PnR to a wide open lane -- when he does its usually when the defense of the Wizards or Kings makes a mistake because he doesn't have the tools in his legs to create significant separation needed to be a good creator or initiator.

At the end of the day, Spurs need a better play-maker from the perimeter. They won't be a championship contender with Kawhi being the Man in PnRs and having him play elite defense. His PnRs aren't good enough from a shots created perspective, and his defense will suffer because he's human and humans can only conserve so much energy and stamina.

I rather Kawhi be ALL IN on D and the boards and have hints or spots of PnR for him offensively with a usage rate around where it was last year. That, in my opinion, is the way to utilize Kawhi & his skill set optimally.

I think the idea is that, you get bigs that can shoot and force bigs to not show, hedge or double. In those conditions, his speed wont be much of a factor since the lane is open forcing reactions from the other big or the guys defending the corner three. It makes sense because older Point Guards/Shooting Guards operate in a similar fashion.

And that's most likely another reason why Pau Gasol and david lee was signed at least for this year. They know Kawhi isnt going to be much of a facilitator this hear as he is a scorer so the idea is that the playmaking will come from the open big..(Pau). This was evident against MIN since he was running his screen game with pau and not Aldridge..Which obviously hurt Aldridge possesion numbers.

Kawhi isnt that good at passing to the rollman either, so his options are very limited right now. The saving grace is that hes a great scorer and hes surrounded by Two great midrange jumpers. So the only other thing he is capable of doing and do it good is force the help from the bigs and a wide open pop.

I suppose the issue is that No team is really that concenred with the bigs taking jumpers so the end result is him just trying to score as evident with his PR scoring numbers.

If he was less deadly as a scorer, most likely teams will prioritize Aldridge and Pau...mot the case.

[apalisoc_9]

I also forgot to mention, just to add points on the whole PNR thing with Kawhi and Pau/Aldridge.

In many instances, and very many..Human reaction rely heavily on reflexes and quick decisions. Though, teams are more than likely going to.double kawhi instead of even bothering with the pop..Many occasions defenses so react with the midrange shot from the big.

The spurs gets at least 2-3 of those every game even when its evide t the gameplan is to let the big shoot.

PATFO cleaely relying on three things in this scenario. Kawhi score, Big man score with a Pop, poor reaction from defense and an open corner. Its a lethal enough combination if used together with a healthy dose of post ups..thats the key.

Its not a great solution as a main focus, but its deadly when its mixed with a working iso game and one of our ballhandlers ( Mills, Manu,Porker have a decent game)

Alternarively, Aldridge can develop a face up game so when the pass happens in the pop, he only has what 3-4 meters left to get to the basket..but thats another issue.

[dabom]

You're wrong again. That's called taking things out of context or not being able to comprehend.

I pointed out the reasons why Spurs have a tough time manufacturing good looks this year with the starting unit when he has the ball in PnRs.

Spurs will continue having a tough time getting out of the 2nd round having Kawhi be the man to do everything on both ends. He needs help and that's why I was pointing it out. Unlike you, I look at the big picture. I see through the great regular season records beating up on the 25 teams that are irrelevant. The offense does lack quality looks as a team with heavy Kawhi PnRs -- its very predictable and easy to exploit for the best teams ( but with 30%+ volume, Kawhi will still get his points that you 2k fans love. Truth is, Spurs won't win another championship until they get Kawhi help on the perimeter -- that's the next step for this franchise and hopefully they get it next summer. They need Kawhi to be ALL IN on D again, the huge responsibility on both ends is spreading himself too thin for as great as he is.

Again, we understand it's not Kawhi's fault for not having a reliable 2nd facilitator. Even Duncan could be considered 3rd when he passes from the top of the key. As far as I know, Kawhi is a huge positive Offensive impact whether its through facilitating, drawing the double from anywhere to getting his own shot, to even hockey assist. As far as we know, he is using the RS to fine tune his offensive repertoire for the playoffs. Him staying in the corner in the RS is not gonna help him in the playoffs.

[MaNu4Tres]

Him staying in the corner in the RS is not gonna help him in the playoffs.

No one is recommending him being a Bowen on offense. You take things some of us say and take it way too far to the extreme -- which is a sign of poor comprehension skills.

[dabom]

No one is recommending him being a Bowen on offense. You take things some of us say and take it way too far to the extreme -- which is a sign of poor comprehension skills.

I'm not saying that literally , but you couldn't comprehend that. I used an extreme example of "focus on defense and less on offense". Which is what you are saying. It's still the same affect dumbass.

[dabom]

We're gonna have to continue this conversation later. I got important to do tomorrow.

[spursistan]

[spursistan]

[apalisoc_9]

Best Rim Protector not named Dedmon in the team.

[spursistan]

^ I love Kawhi's fire and passion, but simply can't do it all for his team..PATFO is really off to bad start as far as building a legit contender around him..just too many softies, gutless, past-it dead-weight on this team..

[Robz4000]

Now Shaq says he's the second best player on the planet...

[Kawhitstorm]

Now Shaq says he's the second best player on the planet...

Hasn't Shaq been saying that for a while now...........

[Robz4000]

Hasn't Shaq been saying that for a while now...........

Chuck was, first time I've heard it from Shaq

[sasaint]

^ I love Kawhi's fire and passion, but simply can't do it all for his team..PATFO is really off to bad start as far as building a legit contender around him..just too many softies, gutless, past-it dead-weight on this team..

...and won't really be able to correct course until it is time to negotiate Kawhi's next contract. As I have been saying for a couple of months that I hope that Kawhi is a patient and loyal Spur in the mold of DRob.

[Chinook]

Are people still acting like the Spurs haven't built a contender around Kawhi? Do people even know what the ideal Kawhi-centric roster would look like? If you do, I'm sure the Pacers, Bulls, Bucks and multiple other teams that are trying to build around wings/forwards would like to know, because it's not easy to do at all.

[BillMc]

Vid of Kawhi mauling All-Stars throughout his career. I remember so many of these plays....

[BillMc]

Kawhi +66 in 3 games last week.

http://stats.nba.com/players/traditi...01%2F08%2F2017

[gambit1990]

Vid of Kawhi mauling All-Stars throughout his career. I remember so many of these plays....