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  1. #251
    57-Chambers Woo Bum-kon's Avatar
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    picking an article that goes against the point you were making. Classic mouse.

  2. #252

  3. #253
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    RaZon you're out of your depth on this thread. Get out my pet.

  4. #254
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    You have a measuring stick that can handle the Sun's heat and a rocket ship to get us there?

    I am not going to split hairs on if the Sun loses 90 million tons per second or 4 feet of mass per hour the fact is it could not have been the same size 4 billion years ago.
    I do not have such a craft, nor do I have such a measuring stick. Neither are necessary.

    I agree the sun was not the same size when it was formed as it is now.

    I agree it has lost mass, and will continue to do so.

    You have yet to demonstrate how this loss of mass relates to the loss of volume however.

    You also have yet to show what evidence you have that it was the same 4 billion years ago.

    (edit)
    That the volume is a cubed unit should be clue that your attempt to calculate this will not produce a result that will support your statement. There is a reason that the statement is "discredited". It ignores the cubed function of volume, and is a very basic math/geometry error.


    So in all fairness I will give you another example:

    Since laser reflecting mirrors have been placed on the moon (by unmanned probes)

    Researchers can measure the exact distance the moon is from the earth.

    In doing so researchers have discovered the Moon drifting from the earth at a rate of 4 inches a year.

    That may not seem like a lot but if you take the clock back "4 Billion" years that would put the moon to close to the earth for the Big bang theory to hold water.
    What evidence do you have that this drift rate was the same in the past?

    The "big bang" thoery does not state the universe is 4 billion years old.

    Another example is the oldest comet recorded is 10,000 - 15,000 years old and yet comets are the result of the big bang that supposedly took place "4 Billion" years ago?

    Who writes this ?
    Comets were not created in the Big Bang, any more than the Earth was. Both came into being much later.
    Last edited by RandomGuy; 04-13-2012 at 12:52 PM.

  5. #255
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    How can anything that can't be proven be argued/debated?

    If buying into God makes a person feel better about their life...cool~~~ If thinking all that God bull is just that makes you feel better about your life...cool~~~

    BINGO!!!!!!

    To try and prove evolution with no God...hahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

    Continue going around in circles.
    Things that cannot be proven can be argued about, just not successfully.

    If one has no proof of the existance of something that is pretty much the end of any debate, IMO, but one can discuss things beyond that failure.

    It is less going around in circles than simply excersizing enough logic to get to the appropriate conclusion.

    Evolution pretty much has been proven.

    We have no proof that the universe as it stands requires a God of any sort.

  6. #256
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Forget all the websites and cut and paste jobs how about you answer some questions directly?

    If the earth is "4 Billion" years old why is the oldest Tree only 20,0000 years old?
    Because trees older than that died in the past.

  7. #257

  8. #258
    Veteran cantthinkofanything's Avatar
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    Not at all I've been down this path many times. Whoever entered the thread with an opinion will leave the thread with that same opinion. The whole exercise is a huge wast of time. Nothing can be proven. So it goes around and around and around.

    Trust me it is not complex or deep. Very simple actually.

    It takes faith to believe in God. So there goes any logic. Evolution is just a theory, so there goes any concrete evidence of anything there. So what's left? Yep, just a bunch of opinions based on....nothing.
    I spy something sig worthy for you RaZon. Or maybe a sub le for all your threads.

  9. #259
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    But scientist want you to believe that comets can survive billions of years?
    Scientists do not believe that comets orbiting our Sun survive billions of years.

  10. #260
    Long, Dark Blues redzero's Avatar
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    Evolution is just a theory, so there goes any concrete evidence of anything there. So what's left? Yep, just a bunch of opinions based on....nothing.
    Is gravity just a theory?

  11. #261
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Is gravity just a theory?
    It's one that's far less understood than evolution for sure.

  12. #262
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    I do not have such a craft, nor do I have such a measuring stick. Neither are necessary.
    If you want to know how deep or how big an object is you do need to measure it or find something to compare it to. I was only trying to satisfy your need to know such measurement which is kinda hard since we both live on Earth we need to rely on the data and figure out what makes sense.

    I agree the sun was not the same size when it was formed as it is now.
    Then with that same logic it must have been much larger "4 Billion" years ago.


    I agree it has lost mass, and will continue to do so.
    Same here.



    You have yet to demonstrate how this loss of mass relates to the loss of volume however.
    Let me PM Agloco I'm sure he has the data I need on top of his desk between his slide ruler and Geiger Counter.

    Or we can move forward and address the many other issues that blow the "4 Million" age of earth theory away.


    You also have yet to show what evidence you have that it was the same 4 billion years ago.
    Your right the sun is the same size as it was "4 Billion" years ago It's like the Energizer Bunny it keeps going and going..

    I don't need the Sun's data to make my points but if you want to make this two more pages longer than it needs to be ok I guess.


    What evidence do you have that this drift rate was the same in the past?
    Careful measurements in recent years have supported the collapse theory by showing that the sun's diameter does, indeed, appear to be shrinking. But this in turn would mean that the sun could not possibly be billions of years old.








    The "big bang" thoery does not state the universe is 4 billion years old.




















    Comets were not created in the Big Bang, any more than the Earth was. Both came into being much later.
    From where the Ort cloud? Are you serious?

    A fic ious fairy tale of a debunked theory of an object that has never been seen and was created solely for future debates.


    Astronomers examining the crystals brought back by the Wild 2 probe have found the crystals could only have been created in a very hot explosion. I say, comets are part of that huge dirty debrie field created in the Big Bang
    Big bang's afterglow reveal birthplace of comets

    00:01 02 December 2008 by Rachel Courtland
    For similar stories, visit the Comets and Asteroids Topic Guide

    A vast reservoir of comets that is too far away to see might be detectable in maps of radiation left over from the big bang, a new study suggests.

    Comets that take longer than 200 years to orbit the Sun come from all directions in the sky. That has long led scientists to believe that they were nudged out of a diffuse halo of icy objects that surrounds the solar system

    astronomers believe it has two components. Based on observations of long-period comets, an outer portion seems to extend from 20,000 to 200,000 astronomical units from the Sun (where 1 AU is the Earth-Sun distance).

    Solar system models also predict the existence of an inner s that stretches some 3000 to 20,000 AU from the Sun. But there is less evidence for this s - most passing stars are too distant to jostle the inner halo and dislodge comets. Only a few recently spotted objects, such as the icy bodies 2006 SQ372Movie Camera and Sedna, point to its existence.
    the first radiation emitted in the universe after the big bang.

  13. #263
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    "Evolution is just a theory, so there goes any concrete evidence of anything there."

    There's plenty of concrete evidence.

    Even short term-evolution, like epigenetics, is observed. Women and men's diets and health affects their sperm and egg qualities that get passed on as permanent genetic qualities to the offspring IN ONE GENERATION.

  14. #264
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    Because trees older than that died in the past.
    Where is the evidence? We should have huge petrified Forrest in every state and county.

    I should be able to go to my back yard and climb my own petrified tree.

    Funny how the trees are mysteriously gone but your many Dinosaur bones are there to be viewed in any museum.


    pssssst! what about the earths oldest coral reef is only 55,000 years old where is the Million year old coral reef?

  15. #265
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    "Evolution is just a theory, so there goes any concrete evidence of anything there."
    That goes for parts of the Bible as well.



    There's plenty of concrete evidence.
    Feel free to post some.



    Even short term-evolution, like epigenetics, is observed. Women and men's diets and health affects their sperm and egg qualities that get passed on as permanent genetic qualities to the offspring IN ONE GENERATION.
    That is micro Evolution no one is saying certain birds can't evolve to birds with different beaks to survive in different locations.

    No one is saying that different plants and animals can't evolve "within" their "species" to become modified.

    I'm sure If man stopped using shoes his feet would evolve into some sort of webbed thick shoe looking foot to adapt to 1000's of years going barefoot on the sidewalks and streets.

    The issue is Macro Evolution where people claim a Fish can become a dog.

    An Ape can become a man.



    Micro and Macro-Evolution Explained

    The difference between micro and macro-evolution is Micro-evolution is a fact that is plainly observable throughout nature. Macro-evolution is a theory that has never been observed in science. micro-evolution cannot result in macro-evolution.

    Micro-evolution is a fact. This has never been disputed by anyone who understands what micro-evolution is. Micro-evolution is the alteration of a specific trait due to natural response. Take a look at Darwin’s observation of the changes in finches. Isolated in the Galapagos Island, Darwin discovered finches that had much longer beaks than those found off the island. His assumption was that evolution was changing this species.

    However, these finches remained finches. Princeton professor Peter Grant completed an 18 year study of the finches on this island. He concluded that during drought years, the finches with shorter beaks died off because with a limited supply of seeds, only those that could reach the grubs living under tree bark could survive. With limited resources on a small island, these finches could not migrate to find food. We clearly observe natural selection, but not macro-evolution. However, it is not a permanent change. The finch offspring with shorter beaks prospered during seasons of plenty. Natural adaptation is the function of micro-evolution. There are three plainly observable principles to micro-evolution. 1. A trait will alter because of a stimulus. 2. The trait will return to the norm if left to nature or returned to its original conditions. 3. No new information is added to the DNA.

    The argument for evolution is that species will change slightly over time and eventually change into something completely different and will over eons of time eventually become a new species. This theory was thought up as a hypothesis and as science advances, the facts have not been found to support it, but much has been provided to dispute it. There are no examples in nature that even remotely indicates a change of species through evolution. The fossil records have zero transitional forms. Even fossilized insects such as spiders and ants that have been dated to pre-historic times are identical to modern day spiders and ants. There are three critical flaws in the theory of evolution through gradual change: Dysfunctional change, the DNA code barrier, and natural selection removes DNA information but does not add new information.

  16. #266
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Not at all I've been down this path many times. Whoever entered the thread with an opinion will leave the thread with that same opinion. The whole exercise is a huge wast of time. Nothing can be proven. So it goes around and around and around.

    Trust me it is not complex or deep. Very simple actually.

    It takes faith to believe in God. So there goes any logic. Evolution is just a theory, so there goes any concrete evidence of anything there. So what's left? Yep, just a bunch of opinions based on....nothing.
    Things can be proven.

    There are a provable number of cups on my desk. This is a tangible observation that is not subject to opinion or religious dogma. This forms the basis for all science and empirical knowledge.

    Evolution is a theory that explains observed facts, better than any other available theory. The evidence supporting this theory is vastly extensive and has been compiled over hundreds of years.

    As a theory it is superior to facts, because it can be used to make predictions about facts we have yet to observe.

    Since we have been using this theory to make predictions, it has a very good track record of predicting things we would expect, were it to be a true explanation of how biological life forms came about on our planet.

  17. #267
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Where is the evidence? We should have huge petrified Forrest in every state and county.

    I should be able to go to my back yard and climb my own petrified tree.

    Funny how the trees are mysteriously gone but your many Dinosaur bones are there to be viewed in any museum.


    pssssst! what about the earths oldest coral reef is only 55,000 years old where is the Million year old coral reef?
    The evidence of dead trees is buried in the fossil record, along with everything else.

    We should not have huge petrified forests in every state and county.

    Your claim is based on something debunked a long time ago.
    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC361.html

  18. #268
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Claim CE310:
    The sun is shrinking at such a rate that it would disappear completely in 100,000 years. This would make it impossibly large and hot in the distant past if the sun is millions of years old.
    Debunked:
    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CE/CE310.html

  19. #269
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    Since we have been using this theory to make predictions,
    When do they predict to cure cancer?

    Did Science predict the huge Tsunami that killed 1000s?


    it has a very good track record
    So did the Dallas cowboys at one time.


    of predicting things
    .

    So science is really nothing more than using an...





  20. #270
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    From where the Ort cloud? Are you serious?

    A fic ious fairy tale of a debunked theory of an object that has never been seen and was created solely for future debates.
    Solar system models also predict the existence of an inner s that stretches some 3000 to 20,000 AU from the Sun. But there is less evidence for this s - most passing stars are too distant to jostle the inner halo and dislodge comets. Only a few recently spotted objects, such as the icy bodies 2006 SQ372Movie Camera and Sedna, point to its existence.
    the first radiation emitted in the universe after the big bang.
    The first quote is not scientific evidence that comets were created in the big bang. Scientists know this is not the case. Quote mining creationists' opinions is not going to show you what scientists say or believe happened.

    The second quote is from a study that shows how cosmic radiation from the Big bang was used to prove the existance of the Oort Cloud you claim is debunked.

    Again, Comets were not formed in the Big Bang, as your own quoted material shows. They came about much later.

  21. #271
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Did Science predict the huge Tsunami that killed 1000s?
    How would you use the theory of evolution to predict Tsunamis?

  22. #272
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    The evidence of dead trees is buried in the fossil record, along with everything else.
    The fossil record is a chart that was exposed to be wrong years ago back in the 1800s.

    Speaking of Fossils how long does fossilization take?



    We should not have huge petrified forests in every state and county.
    Just show me one.

  23. #273
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    The fossil record is a chart that was exposed to be wrong years ago back in the 1800s.

    Speaking of Fossils how long does fossilization take?

    Just show me one.
    The length of time that it takes something to fossilize is physics.

    I thought we were talking about evolutionary biology.

    But since you asked,

    Fossils can form rapidly, so fossils are not a problem for a young earth.
    debunked:
    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC361.html

  24. #274
    Moss is Da Sauce! mouse's Avatar
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    How would you use the theory of evolution to predict Tsunamis?
    Your the one who said It is a tool to predict things not me these are your words.



    As a theory it is superior to facts, because it can be used to make predictions about facts we have yet to observe.

    Since we have been using this theory to make predictions, it has a very good track record of predicting things we would expect, were it to be a true explanation of how biological life forms came about on our planet.

  25. #275
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    . Evolution is just a theory,
    Claim CA201:
    Evolution is only a theory. It is not a fact.
    http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CA/CA201.html

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