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Thanks for these.
Here's the latest update. I included all minutes except for when Diogu, Thomas, Dawson or Dentmon were on the court. A green cell means that the player in the column improved the number for the player in the row. A red cell means the opposite. So basically, the more green in a player's column, the better.
Point Differential Per 100 Possessions
Points Scored Per 100 Possessions
Points Allowed Per 100 Possessions
Minutes Played
Observations:
-Tony Parker's defense continues to be a quiet bright spot this season. Offensively, at first glance Parker's red is surprising ... but then once you consider he is starting next to the four most offensively-challenged players in the rotation, it's much less surprisingly. His numbers point to a fivesome of Parker, Ginobili, Jackson, Bonner and Splitter being a fantastic unit, which makes sense.
-The numbers for Tim Duncan continue to say he's not close to his prime level of play. It's notable that Duncan makes both Parker and Ginobili about half as effective as they usually are. Bonner and Jackson are two players that really help him. It's disappointing that Duncan next to Diaw hasn't been successful. Obviously, the sample size isn't very large but the defensive numbers much worse than I would have guessed.
-Manu Ginobili has been amazing offensively but not so hot defensively. Overall, though, his offense has easily outshined any negatives. It's great to see that he works so well next to Leonard. Diaw and Jackson have both been a good fit next to Ginobili. Jackson and Ginobili show some defensive promise. (Speaking of which, Ginobili's defense is best when he's playing with one of the other shooting guards. Could that mean his best defensive position these days is small forward? Further evidence to support that theory is his defense is bad when next to Leonard. Hmm...)
-While Kawhi Leonard still mostly has red, his numbers have improved as the year has progressed. Defensively, he's very solid when he has Duncan or Diaw behind him. Otherwise, not so much. Offensively, he's great next to Ginobili, which is logical since Ginobili is such a great passer that he allows Leonard to get a ton of easy buckets.
-Even though Danny Green has some explosive shooting outbursts, he's mainly just a defensive player. Outside of Parker (and Jackson if you want to include him), Green grades out as the best perimeter defender on the team.
-Gary Neal's colors couldn't paint a clearer pictures. Very good offensive player, horrible defensive player. Unfortunately, his bad defense overshadows his offense; he brings everyone down overall except Parker and Duncan -- and even those are just barely up. Neal and Blair together produces some of the worst defense ever witnessed on a contending NBA team.
-Speaking of DeJuan Blair, this says he's by far the weakest link on the team. His poor defense makes him unplayable next to Bonner, Neal, Green and Splitter. His poor offense can only be camaflauged by Ginobili.
-Matt Bonner is The King. Outside of his defense next to Blair and Leonard, he makes every other player on the roster better on both sides of the court. That's fantastic work by Bonner. Now let us pray that he can translate this level of play to the playoffs.
-Tiago Splitter's offensive numbers have remained strong -- outside of his inability so far to produce next to Duncan. Although, defensively, it looks like Splitter has been slipping lately. He hasn't done well next to the new guys and his numbers next to Ginobili and Leonard are surprisingly really high. That said, his overall numbers continue to be one of the best on the team.
-To say Boris Diaw has had a smooth transition so far would be an understatement. If you want to know why, look at what he's done when next to Bonner. Sure, small sample size ... but that's extremely high regardless. In fact, that duo has the highest scoring mark and the best defensive mark. It's at least partially a fluke obviously but Pop should think about trying it out a bit more just in case.
-Stephen Jackson has also had a smooth transition. He does his best work next to the players he knows (TP, TD, Manu and Diaw) and The King, which makes sense. Jackson and Diaw's defensive chemistry especially shines through.
-The current starting lineup looks broken judging by these numbers. Blair plays poorly next to Leonard and Green. Leonard and Green don't play well with each other. If Pop is going to put Jackson in the starting lineup, he might want to think about replacing Green instead of Leonard since Jackson and Green have been offensively inept when paired. Starting Diaw should be an upgrade ... as long as that Diaw/Duncan number is a fluke and not indicative of a poor match.
-When Pop trims the rotation, the obvious player to cut is Blair. Beyond him, the next on the chopping block could arguably be Neal since his defense is so horrible.
-When you think of Jackson and Diaw, you first think of what they bring on the offensive side of the court. But come the playoffs, it's their defense that could make them invaluable.
Thanks for these.
timvp always with the goods.
Love this. and lol at Bonner as The King.
well, there goes my theory of Bonner playing better with TP creating the offense rather than Manu
Actually seeing these numbers an argument could be made to start Tiago only to unleash that monster Bonner-Diaw frontline, that's a more valid argument than any I've read so far.
Then again they only played together vs Dallas, the Jazz and maybe the Hornets if I remember correctly.
Last edited by Paranoid Pop; 04-14-2012 at 06:54 PM.
more fuel for the fire
duncan and splitter start together
diaw/bonner second unit with some tiago sprinkled in could handle other second units
blair= amensty
diaw and jack makes sense since the bobcats were the #1 defensive team in the nba 2 years ago with both of them getting about 40+ minutes per game
also do you think diaw could play SF in the second unit
ginobili
neal
diaw
bonner
splitter
bonner is a playmaker
I wonder if Pop should bench Kawhi for playoffs. Green , Jax and Manu could do his work. He isnt looking good, and since playoff rotation will be limited to 8-9 guys, Kawhi could or even should be out of it.
Very interesting. Thank you, timvp.
I hadn't thought of starting Duncan and Splitter for defensive purposes and then to setup the Bonner and Diaw combo off the bench ... but I gotta admit it's intriguing.
How would a team go about defending a lineup of Neal, Ginobili, Jackson, Bonner and Diaw? If that quintet can survive defensively, it could be the ultimate headache for the opposition.
I think we've see the last of Blair this season.
Really wish there was a way to force Pop to read these posts; they really show some unlikely yet interesting numbers. Guess Bonner's playing time isn't just blatant favoritism.
yeah its kinda sad when ur only option at the 4 is bonner. diaw inexp in the system and blair is garbarge and we all know tiago isnt getting in there
Diaw started at center for the Suns. I'm sure he can make it work.I hadn't thought of starting Duncan and Splitter for defensive purposes and then to setup the Bonner and Diaw combo off the bench ... but I gotta admit it's intriguing.
How would a team go about defending a lineup of Neal, Ginobili, Jackson, Bonner and Diaw? If that quintet can survive defensively, it could be the ultimate headache for the opposition.
Blair could really add something to this team if he could get his energy and defensive rebounding back and quit making boneheaded mistakes. But at this point with other options there's really no need to play him except to not hurt his feelings.
Been saying for a while now that if Spurs are gonna trim to a 9-man rotation that Blair and Neal are the guys that gotta go. Glad the numbers prove it.
No I think it's still favouritism.
These numbers reflect team performance when Bonner's on the court right?
When Bonner plays, he benefits from playing with significantly better players (Tim & Tiago) who usually guard the stronger players and who will often rotate if Bonner can't control his man along with perimeter players who are always willing to sag off the perimeter and double where it's necessary. Plus about half of his minutes are against second-unit players.
All he needs to do is try his best on defense, hustle, and be ready on offense, because (let's be honest) he's not creating his own looks as even a screen-setter.
Pop has carved out a role for him that perfectly maximizes his strengths and minimizes his weaknesses, has put Bonner in a position where our championship hopes rest on his ability to not disappear, and to add insult to injury even then he overplays him. All this after Bonner's history in the playoffs.
In my opinion, Pop's playing favourites and attempting to force different results out of the same recipe.
Neal would be worth playing if he had a slight offensive percentage bump to put him at last years levels
Great writeup.
You are very naive if you think Pop doesn't get even more detailed and in depth analysis from his staff on a daily basis.
This post reflected about 95% of Spurstalk last year, while this year I have been proven to be exactly correct in my analysis of Bonner. If this team makes a deep run, he will have to be an important piece of it.
Start giving Bonner some ing credit, or you could just choose to trot some token grandma out on the court and I guess if she just hustles and hits some open shots, she will magically have an amazing +/- because she will be playing next to great players. Give the man some ing credit - he's been crushing it in plus minus this year and it's not a fluke or just a result of playing next to great players.
Most will agree Bonner is an asset in the regular season. It's the postseason we're concerned about.
Exactly chazley. Bonner will win you games during the regular season and I'll give him credit for making his shots and playing his role to perfection. He knows where to be and he tries his best. In fact, we could even credit Pop for giving him a role that maximizes his abilities. That's an achievement.
As therealtruth said the issue is in the playoffs and the fact that the team will seemingly be counting on him to preform like he does in the regular season then. Even at that, if I thought Bonner was playing say 10 minutes a game or was going to be used as a specialist in the post-season there wouldn't be a problem.
I hope it works out but the Spurs have very little room for error as it stands and making a guy who routinely underperforms a crucial part of the rotation doesn't look like a step in the right direction to me. Even if Bonner surprises us all it still wouldn't be a sound strategy with his history imo.
Obviously you can and do have a different opinion.
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