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  1. #101
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I have already offered a (partial and incomplete) "narrative" about the players and the motives that drove them in "9/11 and the Neo-Con Agenda" (above).
    Exactly.

    It's partial and incomplete.

    After a full decade of "research" into mine shaft rescue operations and the like, no one in the truth movement has anything close to a complete theory -- just a bunch of stupid innuendo and disjointed rambles about suspects and methods that make absolutely no sense when taken as a whole. It's definitely one of the reasons people don't take the truth movement seriously. The truthers' collective meltdown here when asked by me to tell us all what they think really happened on 9/11 proves they aren't serious about this at all. I know Jim Fetzer has a financial stake in sticking to his partial and incomplete theory that amounts to nothing; I have no idea why the others insist on looking like idiots in these threads.

  2. #102
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Not the real Jim Fetzer
    I'm a bit skeptical, but inclined to believe him. Why wouldn't it be?

  3. #103
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    I sometimes drop in on these threads out of pure, morbid curiosity (or boredom). I wonder -- why do Chump and RandomGuy engage these s?

    Meh, to each their own, I guess.


    Carry on.
    Same reason why people engage s such as yourself. He too takes potshots and makes comments that make no sense on closer inspection. He also seems to not read through things before posting them like you as well.

  4. #104
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    Maybe you don't even recall, if you ever knew, that one of the first actions that Cheney took after he arrived in office was to arrange a meeting about "energy policy", where he brought together heavy hitters from the gas and oil industry, apparently to map out how they were going to divide Iraqi oil. He would not even allow the public to know the names of those who attended. So is that something else that I should include in my "narrative"? Lies can be short and simple. The truth, as in this case, can be elaborate and complex.

    So yet to see an acknowledgment of any of the points I've made--not one!
    I'll admit, I never knew of such a meeting.

    Let me ask you though.....if the public doesn't know the names, how do you know they were heavyhitters?

  5. #105
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    i don't think anybody is arguing that the need for war in iraq was fabricated.

    or wasn't fabricated.

    ok, wait, we know they bull ted us on that.

    knew that from the beginning.
    Last edited by clambake; 05-09-2012 at 07:09 PM. Reason: clarification

  6. #106
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Not the real Jim Fetzer but...

    The Shanksville eyewitness


    the best part is that Chumpy won't watch this either...

    Watched it.

    Now you watch these.





    I'm more inclined to believe the contemporary accounts than one years later from a person inside a car who could only have seen anything for a very short period of time given her position and influenced by truthers feeding her information to fit their agenda. She also has no memory of an explosion until much later. I believe she is simply mistaken.

    Now that you have watched the videos I posted, do you believe the eyewitnesses in them? If not, why not?
    Last edited by ChumpDumper; 05-09-2012 at 07:26 PM.

  7. #107
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    i don't think anybody is arguing that the need for war in iraq was fabricated.

    or wasn't fabricated.

    ok, wait, we know they bull ted us on that.

    knew that from the beginning.
    So did the heavy hitters get the oil they wanted?

  8. #108
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Maybe you don't even recall, if you ever knew, that one of the first actions that Cheney took after he arrived in office was to arrange a meeting about "energy policy", where he brought together heavy hitters from the gas and oil industry, apparently to map out how they were going to divide Iraqi oil. He would not even allow the public to know the names of those who attended. So is that something else that I should include in my "narrative"?
    If that is part of the story you actually believe, by all means include it. Why is this so difficult for you?


    I have yet to see an acknowledgment of any of the points I've made--not one!
    Yeah, Jim -- you're not going to get it until you put together a cohesive narrative that explains what you think happened on 9/11. Your shotgun approach is self-contradicting and self-defeating.

    In other words -- pick a lane.

  9. #109
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    So did the heavy hitters get the oil they wanted?
    probably.

    through back channels.

  10. #110
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Yes, the crater that officials claim was made by the crash of United 93 was already there before the crash according to a geological survey...
    Wow,dan.

    You have no sense of scale or position.

    That "crater" your crappy YouTube points out is nowhere close in size or position to the actual crash site. I need to remind you idiots that this was a strip mine and it hadn't been fully filled back in by 1994, when the aerial photo was taken.

    Enormous pics dan won't look at anyway:

    http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/e...pacrater3.html

    http://imageshack.us/m/217/9549/9112...fbiphotola.png

    And seriously, dan and Jim -- why would anyone go through the trouble of hijacking a plane with 40 people on board, NOT crash it, go to the site where you acted like it crashed, then spread out debris from that plane (that they had to hide and take apart and damage the parts) and the 40 people on it (including their presumably ground up body parts) in an area up to eight miles from the site -- just to let another government agency take photos of it and still others pick it up and collect it?

    EPA photo gallery of debris all over the got damn place:

    http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/e...padebris5.html

    Explain to all of us how that is easier and more believable then just crashing the plane that they already had.

  11. #111
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    How much less could I care?


    instead of proof of Cheney having secret military meetings, how about something simpler........like connecting the dots between Cheney and Silverstein.

    Proof of such meetings between these two would be an added bonus. Thanks.
    what an asshat....blake is just here to suck Chumpy's boy- Jim...your right.

  12. #112
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    I sometimes drop in on these threads out of pure, morbid curiosity (or boredom). I wonder -- why do Chump and RandomGuy engage these s?

    Meh, to each their own, I guess.


    Carry on.
    ....and you always contribute so much....what a shame...

  13. #113
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    what an asshat....blake is just here to suck Chumpy's boy- Jim...your right.
    Wait, now you think he is Jim Fetzer?

  14. #114
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    I'm a bit skeptical, but inclined to believe him. Why wouldn't it be?
    I wrote Jim Fetzer.

  15. #115
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Wait, now you think he is Jim Fetzer?
    No.

  16. #116
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I wrote Jim Fetzer.
    What email address did you use?

  17. #117
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    What email address did you use?
    the ones in his articles..you can too...

  18. #118
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    the ones in his articles..you can too...
    So what is the actual address you used, dan?

    Just post it.

    Don't be afraid.

  19. #119
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    No, I like Jim...look it up..it's not too hard...

  20. #120
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    No, I like Jim...look it up..it's not too hard...
    So if I emailed him at the address I found in the article, you're saying he would tell me that it's not him, right?

  21. #121
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    So if I emailed him at the address I found in the article, you're saying he would tell me that it's not him, right?
    yep.

  22. #122
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Using the email address at the top of this page?

    http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/fetzerexpandedx.htm

  23. #123
    Believe.
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    I have only ever posted under my own name. Here is our email exchange:

    James Fetzer

    4:07 PM (16 hours ago)

    to [Nbadan]

    Yes, it is. Probably not a great idea, since almost everyone there seems to have their minds made up. I wanted to share some of our major discoveries, but I don't have a lot to work with.

    On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 3:59 PM, [Nbadan] wrote:

    There is a Jim Fetzer account on this message board whose owner is discussing 9/11 in the political forum and citing your articles. I just wanted to verify if this is you and if it is you, thank you for your participation.

    Thank you for your attention.

  24. #124
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Wow,dan.

    You have no sense of scale or position.

    That "crater" your crappy YouTube points out is nowhere close in size or position to the actual crash site. I need to remind you idiots that this was a strip mine and it hadn't been fully filled back in by 1994, when the aerial photo was taken.

    Enormous pics dan won't look at anyway:

    http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/e...pacrater3.html

    http://imageshack.us/m/217/9549/9112...fbiphotola.png

    And seriously, dan and Jim -- why would anyone go through the trouble of hijacking a plane with 40 people on board, NOT crash it, go to the site where you acted like it crashed, then spread out debris from that plane (that they had to hide and take apart and damage the parts) and the 40 people on it (including their presumably ground up body parts) in an area up to eight miles from the site -- just to let another government agency take photos of it and still others pick it up and collect it?

    EPA photo gallery of debris all over the got damn place:

    http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/e...padebris5.html

    Explain to all of us how that is easier and more believable then just crashing the plane that they already had.
    "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I ask that you ignore all the evidence presented to you to today, ignore the weaknesses in my arguments, and convict these people, because you know they did it."


  25. #125
    Believe.
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    Since Nbadan had already posted parts of my Wikipedia entry, which had sketched my views about 9/11, I don't understand why there was ever any justification for demanding a "narrative", which Chumpy claims that I have never provided. I have said what I take to be the case there, namely, as Nbada quotes in post #9:

    Fetzer supports the assertion that elements within the U.S. federal government orchestrated the September 11, 2001 attacks for political and economic gain and that World Trade Center One and Two were destroyed using a novel form of controlled demolition from the top down, while World Trade Center Seven was brought down by a conventional controlled demolition from the bottom.

    I offered links to other articles in which I lay out my "narrative", including:

    "Thinking about 'Conspiracy Theories': 9/11 and JFK"
    http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/fetzerexpandedx.htm

    “Peeling the 9/11 Onion: Layers of Plots within Plots”
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08...-within-plots/

    “9/11 and the Neo-Con Agenda”
    http://www.amfirstbooks.com/IntroPag...on_Agenda.html

    “Is 9/11 Research ‘anti-Semitic’?”
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/Is-...090615-95.html

    where I even republished "9/11 and the Neo-Con Agenda" beginning with post #64, for those who want to read it here without so much as pressing a link to visit where it appeared in 2008. A more complete analysis of the who and the why may be found in "Peeling the 9/11 Onion: Layers of Plots within Plots" (with Preston James), which I also linked above.

    I have concluded that this demand for a "narrative" is simply a rhetorical tactic, since Chumpy continues to insist that I have not given one when a short version appears in post #9, a mid-length version begins at post #64, and a longer version can be found in "Peeling the 9/11 Onion". Since you now know my "narrative", let's focus on Shanksville as a nice "test case".

    Let me also observe that those who have complained about my citing articles and providing links ignore that the vast majority are to articles I have written in which I marshal the relevant evidence and draw appropriate conclusions, where 9/11 is sufficiently complex that getting it right can be a daunting task. When I cite my articles, I am identifying where you can find more.

    In this case, on Flight 93, I lay out some of the basic evidence in "More Proof of 9/11 Duplicity", http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/07...911-duplicity/ including the following, which is as good a place to start as any and there is a lot to discuss, including the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui and research by Pilots for 9/11 Truth, but where this works as a start:

    (3) Flight 93 crash site in Shanksville



    (a) A Boeing 757 weighs about 100 tons with a wingspan of about 125′ and a tail that stands 44′ above the ground. It would have been overwhelmingly larger than the trucks in this photograph, where the alleged crater from the crash was situated. Compare this crash site with those from bona fide crash sites to begin to appreciate the enormity of the deception involved. “This is the most errie thing”, the coroner observed at the scene. “I have not, to this day, seen a single drop of blood. Not a drop.”



    (b) The reporter for FOX News had similar observations, which I have also verified from the taped interview:

    FOX News reporter: It looks like there’s nothing there, except for a hole in the ground.

    Photographer Chris Konicki: Ah, basically that’s right. The only thing you can see from where we where, ah, was a big gouge in the earth and some broken trees. We could see some people working, walking around in the area, but from where we could see it, there wasn’t much left.

    Reporter: Any large pieces of debris at all?

    Konicki: Na, there was nothing, nothing that you could distinguish that a plane had crashed there.

    Reporter: Smoke? Fire?

    Konicki: Nothing. It was absolutely quite. It was, uh, actually very quiet. Um, nothing going on down there. No smoke. No fire. Just a couple of people walking around. They looked like part of the NTSB crew walking around, looking at the pieces…” – FOX (09/11/01)



    (c) An alleged eyewitness, Val McClatchey, who resides less than two miles from the purported crash site, claims to have taken a photo showing a plume of smoke from the crash site. Like the smoke coming from the series of dumpsters at the Pentagon, alas, there are good reasons to suspect that her photo was faked. The plume resembles those from detonation explosions more than it does fires from crash sites–and estimates of the location of the plume place it over a pond, which suggests that this is yet another fake photograph in the 9/11 inventory. Indeed, there are many good reasons to suspect that 9/11 was staged with Hollywood-style special effects.

    Fetzer's 911 theories are out there...















    Lots of starting points for Chumpy and RG....
    Last edited by Jim Fetzer; 05-10-2012 at 09:17 AM.

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