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  1. #1
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    My serious question to you is -- what do you think really happened on 9/11?

    I'm not looking for a bunch of links to poorly written articles and YouTubes with spooky synth music. I'm looking for one person who can say, in some credible detail, who they think did it, how they did it and why. Your articles are lacking a real definitive theory. After a full decade of research dedicated to this subject, I really think you should be farther along than your articles indicate.

    Thanks in advance for taking this seriously and actually producing a theory and narrative that explains it all to the people in the world you are trying to convince.

  2. #2
    Believe.
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    You offer no indication whatsoever that you have read even one of them. So if you think I have something wrong, then explain what I claim, why I claim it, and the explain what I have wrong and how you know. Your response to four articles, whose links you have not even carried forward, is disturbing and, in fact, since I discuss those who had the motive, means, and opportunity to pull it off, are noticeably non-responsive to what I have actually written. So give this another go: identify what I claim and why I claim it (so I can tell whether you do or do not understand my position), explain what I have wrong and why. Here are some of my studies:

    "Thinking about 'Conspiracy Theories': 9/11 and JFK"
    http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/fetzerexpandedx.htm

    “Peeling the 9/11 Onion: Layers of Plots within Plots”
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/08...-within-plots/

    “9/11 and the Neo-Con Agenda”
    http://www.amfirstbooks.com/IntroPag...on_Agenda.html

    “Is 9/11 Research ‘anti-Semitic’?”
    http://www.opednews.com/articles/Is-...090615-95.html

    “Seismic Proof: 9/11 was an inside job” (Gordon Ross and Craig Furlong)
    http://www.journalof911studies.com/v...ongAndRoss.pdf

    “20 Reasons the “Official Account” of 9/11 is Wrong”
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/09...-911-is-wrong/

    “Has nanothermite been oversold to the 9/11 Truth community?”
    http://jamesfetzer.blogspot.com/2011...ld-to-911.html

    Elias Davidsson, "There is no evidence that Muslims committed the crime
    of 9/11" http://www.opednews.com/articles/The...00811-366.html

    David Ray Griffin, "Phone Calls from the 9/11 Airliners"
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...t=va&aid=16924

    Col. George Nelson, USAF (ret.), “Impossible to Prove a Falsehood True”
    http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/A...26Apr2006.html

    “9/11: Planes/No Planes and ‘Video Fakery’”
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/02...-video-fakery/

    “Reason and Rationality in Public Debate: The Case of Rob Balsamo”
    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2012/04...f-rob-balsamo/

    A few are authored by others, but it would be silly to ask me to boil them down into a few words, which would miss the details, the photos and the graphs that make such a difference to understanding. I don't care where you or anyone else begins, where the last of these articles may be the best lay- out of (what is often called) NPT ("No Plane Theory"), but which might well be better put as "No 'Official Plane' Theory" or "No Big Boeing Theory". I am not going to waste my time here if you are not serious. So begin anywhere, but study one or more these articles and explain what I or other authors have claimed and why we have claimed it, then what we have wrong and how you know. That should work. So the intellectual 9/11 ball is now in your court.
    Last edited by Jim Fetzer; 05-07-2012 at 12:07 AM. Reason: correcting "being" to "begin"

  3. #3
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Hey Jim, glad you could make it...I've read some of your stuff and look forward to reading many others, in case you don't know already, I share many of your ideas on both 911 and the JFK conspiracy.....shared them over and over again in this forum

    ...anyway, just wanted to welcome you to the forum and ask ya to give Chumpy and RG a fair chance..they troll, grasp at straws and are very susceptible to group-think....just don't let them get under your skin....anyway, good to have you around...

  4. #4
    Student of Liberty Galileo's Avatar
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    Looks like the Chump Dumper has met his match.

  5. #5
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Looks like the Chump Dumper has met his match.
    If this is the real Jim Fetzer, Chumpy was never in 'his league'

    Biography

    James H. Fetzer was born in Pasadena, California, in 1940, and attended South Pasadena High School.[6] He went on to study philosophy at Princeton University and graduated magna laude in 1962.[6] After four years as a commissioned officer in the Marine Corps he resigned his commission as a Captain to begin graduate work at Indiana University. In 1970 he completed his Ph.D. in the history and philosophy of science.[6]

    Fetzer taught at various schools including the University of Kentucky, the University of Virginia (twice) and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill before he received tenure at the University of Minnesota Duluth, where he taught from 1987 until his retirement in June 2006.[1] At the University of Kentucky, he received the first Distinguished Teaching Award from the UK Student Government.

    Works

    Fetzer has published more than 100 articles and 20 books on philosophy of science, computer science, artificial intelligence and cognitive science.[1] He also founded the international journal, Minds and Machines, which he edited for eleven years, the professional library, Studies in Cognitive Systems, which includes thirty volumes, and the professional organization, The Society for Machines & Mentality.[7] The Society for Machines & Mentality has been accepted as a special interest group (SIG) of the International Association for Computing and Philosophy (IACAP).[8] His first article in the philosophy of computer science, "Program Verification: The Very Idea", Communications of the ACM (1988), ignited an international debate that has not subsided to this day.[9][dead link]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Fetzer

  6. #6
    Believe. Vici's Avatar
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    Couldn't go a paragraph without finding an error.

    From the 9/11 anti-Semitic article:

    The comparison with Holocaust deniers is patently false, of course, because Holocaust deniers deny that the (German) government committed atrocities, while 9/11 investigators affirm that the (American) government committed them.

    Holocaust deniers can still believe that the holocaust happened, was terrible, but they believe that it was not as of large of scale as is reported. Technically, most scholars of the holocaust are considered deniers as there is not sufficient proof that as many Jews were killed as reported. This is mostly due to the Soviets who used the concentration camps as propaganda during the war. They actually knew something horrible was going on while the rest of the allies thought it was exaggerated. The Soviets pushed enormous numbers out there, and when the camps became liberated, who was going to deny the numbers were lower than reported? Regardless, if you believe the numbers of actual murdered are below what was reported, you are considered a denier.

  7. #7
    Student of Liberty Galileo's Avatar
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    If this is the real Jim Fetzer, Chumpy was never in 'his league'




    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_H._Fetzer
    ChumpDumper does not have a ghost of a chance.


  8. #8
    Student of Liberty Galileo's Avatar
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    Couldn't go a paragraph without finding an error.

    From the 9/11 anti-Semitic article:

    The comparison with Holocaust deniers is patently false, of course, because Holocaust deniers deny that the (German) government committed atrocities, while 9/11 investigators affirm that the (American) government committed them.

    Holocaust deniers can still believe that the holocaust happened, was terrible, but they believe that it was not as of large of scale as is reported. Technically, most scholars of the holocaust are considered deniers as there is not sufficient proof that as many Jews were killed as reported. This is mostly due to the Soviets who used the concentration camps as propaganda during the war. They actually knew something horrible was going on while the rest of the allies thought it was exaggerated. The Soviets pushed enormous numbers out there, and when the camps became liberated, who was going to deny the numbers were lower than reported? Regardless, if you believe the numbers of actual murdered are below what was reported, you are considered a denier.
    you sound like a holocaust denier. How dare you make such claims.

  9. #9
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Fetzer's 911 theories are out there...

    Fetzer also believes the hijackings were staged and that calls from passengers to relatives and operators were faked.
    Fetzer supports the assertion that elements within the U.S. federal government orchestrated the September 11, 2001 attacks for political and economic gain and that World Trade Center One and Two were destroyed using a novel form of controlled demolition from the top down, while World Trade Center Seven was brought down by a conventional controlled demolition from the bottom
    Fetzer encourages the study of the possibility that high-tech weapons, including ground or space-based directed-energy military weapons, may have been used to bring down the Twin Towers.
    He has not endorsed any specific hypothesis about the destruction of the WTC, but he has expressed skepticism that conventional explosives, including thermite/thermate, could have brought about such devastating effects.
    In his most recent work as a columnist for Veterans Today, "Seven Questions about 9/11" and "More Proof of 9/11 Duplicity", he has presented evidence that all four of the plane crashes on 9/11 were faked, where no planes crashed in Shanksville or at the Pentagon and one or another form of fakery was used in New York.
    Even more strikingly, in collaboration with T. Mark Hightower, a chemical engineer, he has challenged "the myth of nanothermite" by explaining that it does not have the gas-expansion properties of explosives and, with a detonation rate of 895 m/s, cannot have destroyed the concrete or the steel in the Twin Towers, which would require rates in excess of 3,200 m/s for concrete and 6,100 m/s for steel, which has contradicted perhaps the most widely held belief within the community about how the towers were destroyed and accented his disagreements with Jones.[
    Fetzer has been impressed by their efforts to clarify the extent of devastation at the World Trade Center and mentions a wide range of theories, including that a "satellite-mounted military weapon" may have been used to destroy it, as among those that deserve investigation. He has written that "the range of alternative explanations that might possibly explain the explanandum must include non-classic controlled demolition from the top-down using mini-nukes, and . . . non-classic controlled demolition from the top-down using directed energy weapons. . . . The specific weapons used to destroy the WTC could have been ground based or space based." [
    Lots of starting points for Chumpy and RG....

  10. #10
    Believe. Vici's Avatar
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    Chumps question was never answered. Anyone can link articles, but he asked for an explanation. Even some of the most complex answers van be shortened to a few sentences if you understand what you are saying. It actually would have been shorter if 'jim' had actually just answered the question as opposed to link articles.

  11. #11
    Student of Liberty Galileo's Avatar
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    Fetzer's 911 theories are out there...















    Lots of starting points for Chumpy and RG....
    Good work, NBaden.

  12. #12
    Believe. Vici's Avatar
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    you sound like a holocaust denier. How dare you make such claims.
    ?

  13. #13
    W4A1 143 43CK? Nbadan's Avatar
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    Chumps question was never answered. Anyone can link articles, but he asked for an explanation. Even some of the most complex answers van be shortened to a few sentences if you understand what you are saying. It actually would have been shorter if 'jim' had actually just answered the question as opposed to link articles.
    ok, but...

    but it would be silly to ask me to boil them down into a few words, which would miss the details, the photos and the graphs that make such a difference to understanding.

  14. #14
    Believe. Vici's Avatar
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    Thats a weak cop out. Explain what you think happened, then supply the links with details. This isn't hard stuff. I wish i could go to my boss and be like 'here are some links, there is too much detail to explain how DNS works'. If he doesnt know then say so. If he does, it really isn't hard to explain.

  15. #15
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    Looks like the Chump Dumper has met his match.
    Epic ownage in the process

  16. #16
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    ...it would be silly to ask me to boil them down into a few words, which would miss the details, the photos and the graphs that make such a difference to understanding.
    No one is limiting you at all. go into as much detail as you feel is necessary. You may use photos and graphs, but don't vomit a bunch of links to disconnected articles and YouTubes. That is simply lazy. You showed this laziness right off the bat here. I'm offering you another chance.

    Give us a narrative of what you think really happened on 9/11 saying who did it, how they did it and why. Do it in your own words. The reluctance of anyone in the truth movement to do something as simple as this after a full decade of purported research is a big reason the truth movement can be discounted out of hand. You simply don't give your intended audience anything to positively believe.

    The the "intellectual 9/11 ball" is and has always been in your court. You simply never realized what it would take to hold serve. Now you do.

    I'll wait for your narrative. Thanks again for not wasting our time with a bunch of disparate, unconnected crap like everyone who has been asked before. All I need is a narrative that explains what you think really happened on 9/11. You can start out simply if you like. I'll be glad to ask you questions about it so you can flesh it out if you need that kind of help.

  17. #17
    Student of Liberty Galileo's Avatar
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    No one is limiting you at all. go into as much detail as you feel is necessary. You may use photos and graphs, but don't vomit a bunch of links to disconnected articles and YouTubes. That is simply lazy. You showed this laziness right off the bat here. I'm offering you another chance.

    Give us a narrative of what you think really happened on 9/11 saying who did it, how they did it and why. Do it in your own words. The reluctance of anyone in the truth movement to do something as simple as this after a full decade of purported research is a big reason the truth movement can be discounted out of hand. You simply don't give your intended audience anything to positively believe.

    The the "intellectual 9/11 ball" is and has always been in your court. You simply never realized what it would take to hold serve. Now you do.

    I'll wait for your narrative. Thanks again for not wasting our time with a bunch of disparate, unconnected crap like everyone who has been asked before. All I need is a narrative that explains what you think really happened on 9/11. You can start out simply if you like. I'll be glad to ask you questions about it so you can flesh it out if you need that kind of help.
    I back the single "lone nut" theory of 9/11. A single lone nut pulled off 9/11 and kept it a secret. It wasn't a conspiracy.


  18. #18
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    He (Jim Fetzer) has not endorsed any specific hypothesis about the destruction of the WTC
    probably never will.

  19. #19
    Damns (Given): 0 Blake's Avatar
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    I back the single "lone nut" theory of 9/11. A single lone nut pulled off 9/11 and kept it a secret. It wasn't a conspiracy.

    No doubt that you won't give your hypothesis either

  20. #20
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    I back the single "lone nut" theory of 9/11. A single lone nut pulled off 9/11 and kept it a secret. It wasn't a conspiracy.

    You have your own thread, Rolf. Tell us what you think really happened on 9/11 there.

  21. #21
    Veteran
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    So, did anyone ever give their explanation?

    I'll give mine to get the ball rolling:

    On September 11th, 2001, multiple terrorists from various middle Eastern countries hijacked several airplanes using box cutters. They killed or subdued the pilots, took over control of the planes and flew them into the World Trade Center, and the Pentagon. One plane that was taken over was then crashed into a field after passengers fought back.

    Afterwards, over the next decade, several people went on Spurstalk.com and explained that they believe there is more to the story than I described above. However, they've never actually explained what they believed to have happened.....mostly because they're pussies.

  22. #22
    i hunt fenced animals clambake's Avatar
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    box cutters are very underrated, tbh.

  23. #23
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    So, did anyone ever give their explanation?

    I'll give mine to get the ball rolling:

    On September 11th, 2001, multiple terrorists from various middle Eastern countries hijacked several airplanes using box cutters. They killed or subdued the pilots, took over control of the planes and flew them into the World Trade Center, and the Pentagon. One plane that was taken over was then crashed into a field after passengers fought back.

    Afterwards, over the next decade, several people went on Spurstalk.com and explained that they believe there is more to the story than I described above. However, they've never actually explained what they believed to have happened.....mostly because they're pussies.
    Not even one YouTube link?

    You disgust me.

  24. #24
    5 Bill_Brasky's Avatar
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    I hate truthers

  25. #25
    Linger Ficking Good! CuckingFunt's Avatar
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    box cutters are very underrated, tbh.
    So says Gus.

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