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  1. #1
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    GAO: Recoverable Oil in Colorado, Utah, Wyoming 'About Equal to Entire World’s Proven Oil Reserves'

    (CNSNews.com) - The Green River Formation, a largely vacant area of mostly federal land that covers the territory where Colorado, Utah and Wyoming come together, contains about as much recoverable oil as all the rest the world’s proven reserves combined, an auditor from the Government Accountability Office told Congress on Thursday.

  2. #2
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    Look up EROI

  3. #3
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    And, compared to green energy?

    I'd put my money on the petroleum industry achieving a reasonable EROI on shale oil long before any (or all combined) green energies ever come close to supplanting our needs.

  4. #4
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    And, compared to green energy?

    I'd put my money on the petroleum industry achieving a reasonable EROI on shale oil long before any (or all combined) green energies ever come close to supplanting our needs.
    And the agenda becomes clear. thanks, Mr. Shill.

  5. #5
    Just Right of Atilla the Hun Yonivore's Avatar
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    And the agenda becomes clear. thanks, Mr. Shill.
    Energy independence is the agenda.

    What's your alternative?

  6. #6
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Energy independence is the agenda.
    Exporting refined product is the agenda.

  7. #7
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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  8. #8
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Energy independence is the agenda.

    What's your alternative?
    No . The politicians keep saying that, but it's just more broken promises.
    Exporting refined product is the agenda.
    Why not, if the refinery capacity has excess?

  9. #9
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Why not, if the refinery capacity has excess?
    It's being done already. I'm glad you're fine with the increased gas prices.

  10. #10
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    It's being done already. I'm glad you're fine with the increased gas prices.
    Like it or not, we are in a global market. Do you wish to deny US exports?

  11. #11
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Like it or not, we are in a global market.
    That's why energy independence is not the agenda.

  12. #12
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    That's why energy independence is not the agenda.
    Can't disagree with that.

  13. #13
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    hucksters have been pushing this idea for as long as I can remember.

    The technology to get at this magic energy is always just around the corner...

  14. #14
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    And, compared to green energy?

    I'd put my money on the petroleum industry achieving a reasonable EROI on shale oil long before any (or all combined) green energies ever come close to supplanting our needs.
    Compared to green energy, shale oil energy sucks.

    Sorry.

    Let's look at the key challenges, unchanged in the last 100 years.

    Since you posted the blog about the GAO report:

    Our October 2010 report also found, however, that there are a number of
    key challenges associated with potential oil shale development in the
    United States, including: (1) uncertainty about viable technologies, (2)
    environmental impacts that affect water quan y and quality, air, and land,
    and (3) socioeconomic impacts.



    Uncertainty about viable technologies. A significant challenge to the
    development of oil shale lies in the uncertainty surrounding the
    viability of current technologies to economically extract oil from oil
    shale.
    To extract the oil, the rock needs to be heated to very high
    temperatures—ranging from about 650 to 1,000 degrees Fahrenheit—
    in a process known as retorting.
    If you think that physics is going to roll over and take a nap while your magic cheap energy just pops out, you need to tell me what technology is in the pipeline that is going to do that.

    What technology under development is going to overcome the really bad EROI?

  15. #15
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Water quan y. Oil shale development could have significant
    impacts on the quan y of surface and groundwater resources, but
    the magnitude of these impacts is unknown because of the
    technological uncertainties, and also because the size of a future
    oil shale industry is unknown, and knowledge of current water
    conditions and groundwater flow is limited. Developing oil shale
    and providing power for oil shale operations and other associated
    activities will require significant amounts of water, which could
    pose problems, particularly in the arid West where an expanding
    population is already placing additional demands on available
    water resources
    .

  16. #16
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    To prepare for possible impacts from the potential future development of
    oil shale, which industry experts believe is at least 15-20 years away,

  17. #17
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Magic technology will appear to make the uneconomical oily rocks suddenly economical, and magic new water supplies will pop up in an arid west...

    some analysts project that large
    scale oil shale development within Colorado could require more
    water than is currently supplied to over 1 million residents of the
    Denver metro area
    and that water diverted for oil shale operations
    would restrict agricultural and urban development. The potential
    demand for water is further complicated by the past decade of
    drought in the West

  18. #18
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Once you over come the non-existant technologies, a lack of water supplies, unknown environemental damage, in 15-20 years, it might be a huge source of energy.

    That's what you are going with?

  19. #19
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Here is the GAO report that your happy fun blog linked that is the source of the information:

    http://science.house.gov/sites/repub...l-20120510.pdf

  20. #20
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Random, would you please stop yelling.

    It's hard to make out words when they are so incoherent.


  21. #21
    e^(i*pi) + 1 = 0 MannyIsGod's Avatar
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    Good luck getting the water for the extraction in the west. Water here is already the biggest problem to the region and all the water in the region heads out west to basically keep Las Vegas and Phoenix from turning into ghost towns. The reservoirs out west are already losing capacity due to filling up with silt and when you add in higher temperatures from global warming you're also going to lose a lot more to evaporation (which is already incredibly high - who would think a lake with a large surface area in the desert would lose a lot of water to evaporation?!?!?!?).

    On the other hand, out west Solar IS viable as . Not to mention being buffered with wind energy. The wind farms out in the west are huge. Solar energy is increasing in efficiency at an exponential rate and dropping in price while oil increases in price. So yes, actually. Compared to green energy it really makes little sense to develop oil shales as these. I know that you may find that hard to believe, but its the absolute reality.

  22. #22
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    Energy independence is the agenda.

    What's your alternative?
    As it stands, it is more profitable for the refineries to sell the excess petrol to europe than it is to sell here in the states. I suppose once they sufficiently saturate the market in Europe then it will actually effect the price of domestic supply but as has been pointed out this has nothing to do with domestic oil.

    As for the solar versus oil agenda, I personally do not like the notion of just ceding the solar industry to China. Not at all.

    San Antonio is building the biggest one in the world.

    http://stateimpact.npr.org/texas/201...r-san-antonio/

    January 12, 2012 | 11:22 AM
    By Terrence Henry

    Mose Buchele / StateImpact Texas

    Just days after the ribbon was cut on the largest solar farm in Texas outside Austin, San Antonio has announced a new solar project that would dwarf its neighbor to the North: a 400 megawatt solar project that would be twice as large as any solar farm currently runningin the world.
    What is your take on the subsidies such as the pipeline for the oil industry? You just such a fan of oil that your cool with the money from every level of government they get?

  23. #23
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Random, would you please stop yelling.

    It's hard to make out words when they are so incoherent.

    A significant challenge to the
    development of oil shale lies in the uncertainty surrounding the
    viability of current technologies to economically extract oil from oil
    shale.


    Developing oil shale
    and providing power for oil shale operations and other associated
    activities will require significant amounts of water, which could
    pose problems, particularly in the arid West where an expanding
    population is already placing additional demands on available
    water resources


    some analysts project that large
    scale oil shale development within Colorado could require more
    water than is currently supplied to over 1 million residents of the
    Denver metro area and that water diverted for oil shale operations
    would restrict agricultural and urban development. The potential
    demand for water is further complicated by the past decade of
    drought in the West



    Yoni seemed to have missed the rather important parts. I wanted to eliminate the possibility that he misplaced his glasses and couldn't read them.



    Do you understand the implications of those two rather important paragraphs that got left out of the blog post in the OP?

  24. #24
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Good luck getting the water for the extraction in the west. Water here is already the biggest problem to the region and all the water in the region heads out west to basically keep Las Vegas and Phoenix from turning into ghost towns. The reservoirs out west are already losing capacity due to filling up with silt and when you add in higher temperatures from global warming you're also going to lose a lot more to evaporation (which is already incredibly high - who would think a lake with a large surface area in the desert would lose a lot of water to evaporation?!?!?!?).

    On the other hand, out west Solar IS viable as . Not to mention being buffered with wind energy. The wind farms out in the west are huge. Solar energy is increasing in efficiency at an exponential rate and dropping in price while oil increases in price. So yes, actually. Compared to green energy it really makes little sense to develop oil shales as these. I know that you may find that hard to believe, but its the absolute reality.
    Yup.

    The only thing the OP demonstrated is that Yoni doesn't understand economics.

    Bloodly ironic, isn't it?

  25. #25
    I am that guy RandomGuy's Avatar
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    Random, would you please stop yelling.

    It's hard to make out words when they are so incoherent.
    How much government money do you think we should spend on shale oil?

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