Page 14 of 210 FirstFirst ... 41011121314151617182464114 ... LastLast
Results 326 to 350 of 5243
  1. #326
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,830
    Words have different meanings. Sorry that you cannot understand that. Its quite obvious that you are mentally ill. You can look at them as a whole, as distinct, etc. Instead you want me to show you a specific definition form a dictionary that is exactly in the form that you want it to be in.

    I am not going to play this asinine game with you.

    If you cannot figure out what 'climate' 'change' and 'denial' could be interpreted as to the topic thats your problem. If you want to use that as an excuse to discount the discussion then go right ahead. If you don't have that excuse then you will have another one soon enough.

    irrefutable

  2. #327
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,830
    I am not the one making the argument that climate science do not consider CO2 solubility in their analysis.

    The linked material was describing their consideration of what you are talking about. That's the point, dolt. You keep saying they don't consider it but they very much so do.

    The disconnect here is that you don't like what their calculations result in or conclude so instead use a gross simplification. They talk about non-linear functions of windspeed, chemical reactions taking place, ocean currents and biological activity. They say stuff like:

    The annual two-way gross exchange of CO2 between the atmosphere and surface ocean is about 90 PgC/yr, mediated by molecular diffusion across the air-sea interface. Net CO2 transfer can occur whenever there is a partial pressure difference of CO2 across this interface. The flux can be estimated as the product of a gas transfer coefficient, the solubility of CO2, and the partial pressure difference of CO2 between air and water. The gas transfer coefficient incorporates effects of many physical factors but is usually expressed as a non-linear function of wind speed alone. There is considerable uncertainty about this function (Liss and Merlivat, 1986; Wanninkhof, 1992; Watson et al., 1995). Improvements in the ability to measure CO2 transfer directly e.g., Wanninkhof and McGillis, 1999) may lead to a better knowledge of gas transfer coefficients.

    Despite extensive global measurements conducted during the 1990s, measurements of surface water pCO2 remain sparse, and extensive spatial and temporal interpolation is required in order to produce global fields. Takahashi et al. (1999) interpolated data collected over three decades in order to derive monthly values of surface water pCO2 over the globe for a single "virtual" calendar year (1995). A wind speed dependent gas transfer coefficient was used to calculate monthly net CO2 fluxes. The resulting estimates, although subject to large uncertainty, revealed clear regional and seasonal patterns in net fluxes.

    Regional net CO2 transfers estimated from contemporary surface water pCO2 data should not be confused with the uptake of anthropogenic CO2. The uptake of anthropogenic CO2 is the increase in net transfer over the pre-industrial net transfer, and is therefore superimposed on a globally varying pattern of relatively large natural transfers. The natural transfers result from heating and cooling, and biological production and respiration. Carbon is transferred within the ocean from natural sink regions to natural source regions via ocean circulation and the sinking of carbon rich particles. This spatial separation of natural sources and sinks dominates the regional distribution of net annual air-sea fluxes.

    CO2 solubility is temperature dependent, hence air-sea heat transfer contributes to seasonal and regional patterns of air-sea CO2 transfer (Watson et al., 1995). Net cooling of surface waters tends to drive CO2 uptake; net warming drives outgassing. Regions of cooling and heating are linked via circulation, producing vertical gradients and north-south transports of carbon within the ocean (e.g., of the order 0.5 to 1 PgC/yr southward transport in the Atlantic Basin; Broecker and Peng, 1992; Keeling and Peng, 1995; Watson et al., 1995; Holfort et al., 1998).

    Biological processes also drive seasonal and regional distributions of CO2 fluxes (Figure 1c). The gross primary production by ocean phytoplankton has been estimated by Bender et al. (1994) to be 103 PgC/yr. Part of this is returned to DIC through autotrophic respiration, with the remainder being net primary production, estimated on the basis of global remote sensing data to be about 45 PgC/yr (Longhurst et al., 1995; Antoine et al., 1996; Falkowski et al., 1998; Field et al., 1998; Balkanski et al., 1999). About 14 to 30% of the total NPP occurs in coastal areas (Gattuso et al., 1998). The resulting organic carbon is consumed by zooplankton (a quan atively more important process than herbivory on land) or becomes detritus. Some organic carbon is released in dissolved form (DOC) and oxidised by bacteria (Ducklow, 1999) with a fraction entering the ocean reservoir as net DOC production (Hansell and Carlson, 1998). Sinking of particulate organic carbon (POC) composed of dead organisms and detritus together with vertical transfer of DOC create a downward flux of organic carbon from the upper ocean known as "export production". Recent estimates for global export production range from roughly 10 to 20 PgC/yr (Falkowski et al., 1998; Laws et al., 2000). An alternative estimate for global export production of 11 PgC/yr has been derived using an inverse model of physical and chemical data from the world's oceans (Schlitzer, 2000). Only a small fraction (about 0.1 PgC) of the export production sinks in sediments, mostly in the coastal ocean (Gattuso et al., 1998). Heterotrophic respiration at depth converts the remaining organic carbon back to DIC. Eventually, and usually at another location, this DIC is upwelled into the ocean's surface layer again and may re-equilibrate with the atmospheric CO2. These mechanisms, often referred to as the biological pump, maintain higher DIC concentrations at depth and cause atmospheric CO2 concentrations to be about 200 ppm lower than would be the case in the absence of such mechanisms (Sarmiento and Toggweiler, 1984; Maier-Reimer et al., 1996).

    Marine organisms also form s s of solid calcium carbonate (CaCO3) that sink vertically or ac ulate in sediments, coral reefs and sands. This process depletes surface CO32-, reduces alkalinity, and tends to increase pCO2 and drive more outgassing of CO2 (see Box 3.3 and Figure 3.1). The effect of CaCO3 formation on surface water pCO2 and air-sea fluxes is therefore counter to the effect of organic carbon production. For the surface ocean globally, the ratio between the export of organic carbon and the export of calcium carbonate (the "rain ratio") is a critical factor controlling the overall effect of biological activity on surface ocean pCO2 (Figure 3.1; Archer and Maier-Reimer, 1994). Milliman (1993) estimated a global production of CaCO3 of 0.7 PgC/yr, with roughly equivalent amounts produced in shallow water and surface waters of the deep ocean. Of this total, approximately 60% ac ulates in sediments. The rest re-dissolves either in the water column or within the sediment. An estimate of CaCO3 flux analogous to the export production of organic carbon, however, should include sinking out of the upper layers of the open ocean, net ac ulation in shallow sediments and reefs, and export of material from shallow systems into deep sea environments. Based on Milliman's (1993) budget, this quan y is about 0.6 PgC/yr (± 25 to 50 % at least). The global average rain ratio has been variously estimated from models of varying complexity to be 4 (Broecker and Peng, 1982), 3.5 to 7.5 (Shaffer, 1993), and 11 (Yamanaka and Tajika, 1996). (It should be noted that rain ratios are highly depth dependent due to rapid oxidation of organic carbon at shallow depth compared to the depths at which sinking CaCO3 starts to dissolve.) If one accepts an organic carbon export production value of 11 PgC/yr (Schlitzer, 2000), then only Yamanaka and Tajika's (1996) value for the rain ratio approaches consistency with the observation-based estimates of the export of CaCO3 and organic carbon from the ocean surface layer.

    The overall productivity of the ocean is determined largely by nutrient supply from deep water. There are multiple potentially limiting nutrients: in practice nitrate and/or phosphate are commonly limiting (Falkowski et al., 1998; Tyrell, 1999). Silicate plays a role in limiting specific types of phytoplankton and hence in determining the qualitative nature of primary production, and potentially the depth to which organic carbon sinks. A role for iron in limiting primary productivity in regions with detectable phosphate and nitrate but low productivity (HNLC or "high nutrient, low chlorophyll regions") has been experimentally demonstrated in the equatorial Pacific (Coale et al., 1996) and the Southern Ocean (Boyd et al., 2000). In both regions artificial addition of iron stimulated phytoplankton growth, resulting in decreased surface-water pCO2. In HLNC regions, the supply of iron from deep water, while an important source, is generally insufficient to meet the requirements of phytoplankton. An important additional supply of iron to surface waters far removed from sediment and riverine sources is aeolian transport and deposition (Duce and Tindale, 1991; Fung et al., 2000; Martin, 1990). This aeolian supply of iron may limit primary production in HNLC regions, although the effect is ultimately constrained by the availability of nitrate and phosphate. Iron has been hypothesised to play an indirect role over longer time-scales (e.g., glacial-interglacial) through limitation of oceanic nitrogen fixation and, consequently, the oceanic content of nitrate (Falkowski et al., 1998; Broecker and Henderson, 1998; Box 3.4). The regional variability of oceanic nitrogen fixation (Gruber and Sarmiento, 1997) and its temporal variability and potential climate-sensitivity have recently become apparent based on results from long time-series and global surveys (Karl et al., 1997; Hansell and Feely, 2000).

    Carbon (organic and inorganic) derived from land also enters the ocean via rivers as well as to some extent via groundwater. This transport comprises a natural carbon transport together with a significant anthropogenic perturbation. The global natural transport from rivers to the ocean is about 0.8 PgC/yr, half of which is organic and half inorganic (Meybeck 1982, 1993; Sarmiento and Sundquist 1992; Figure 3.1). Additional fluxes due to human activity have been estimated (Meybeck, 1993) to be about 0.1 PgC/yr (mainly organic carbon). Much of the organic carbon is deposited and/or respired and outgassed close to land, mostly within estuaries (Smith and Hollibaugh, 1993).The outgassing of anthropogenic carbon from estuaries can be a significant term in comparison with regional CO2 emissions estimates (e.g., 5 to 10% for Western Europe; Frankignoulle et al., 1998). The natural DIC transport via rivers, however, is part of a large-scale cycling of carbon between the open ocean and land associated with dissolution and precipitation of carbonate minerals. This natural cycle drives net outgassing from the ocean of the order 0.6 PgC/yr globally, which should be included in any assessment of net air-sea and atmosphere-terrestrial biosphere transfers (Sarmiento and Sundquist, 1992) and ocean transports (e.g., Holfort et al., 1998).
    Which is a huge collaborative synthesis from scientists across the world. Citations and references indicating the work of many scientists.

    You have a solubility chart and a ph chart from wikipedia to go along with made up numbers.

    Damn straight I am going to be unreasonable.

  3. #328
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,830
    You need to really stop thinking other people are beneath you. Just because I don't specify these changes doesn't mean I don't know of them. It's still part of the 98% balance.

    You need to start giving people a little more credit as to their knowledge and ask for clarification rather than accuse.

    I really don't see how you could possible have any friends in real life.
    You cannot possibly see a whole manner of things.

    You are not 'people' You are one individual and I will give credit where credit is due, Dr. Optics. You do the same thing over and over again. You act like you have not been making these exact same claims for the past several years.

    Which claim and I trying to quantify? I am showing why skepticism is proper. When have i said i try to quantify? I don't need to pull up studies that quantify when that isn't my goal. If you want that, find them yourself.
    I just showed you where they talked about everything you claimed they did not account for. Partial pressures, solubility, temperature effects, etc. they also talk about and cite a whole manner more than that. You cannot do a single calculation that uses empirical data that disputes that and think that's justification for skepticism.
    Last edited by FuzzyLumpkins; 05-26-2012 at 11:41 PM.

  4. #329
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
    My Team
    Portland Trailblazers
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Post Count
    43,117
    [IPCC]

    Which is a huge collaborative synthesis from scientists across the world. Citations and references indicating the work of many scientists.
    ----
    Damn straight I am going to be unreasonable.
    LOL...

    You are going to believe an organized political body that has a set agenda...

  5. #330
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,830
    LOL...

    You are going to believe an organized political body that has a set agenda...
    You were flatass wrong about what they consider in their analysis so this ad hominem is of little surprise. It's little surprise that you resort to it rather than admit tehy consider each and everyone of those things you claimed they didn't. You obviously never even looked.

    I will believe the IPCC over a stupid human being with a set agenda.

    If nothing else I can look up their citations where with you I can expect solubility charts and no citations.

  6. #331
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
    My Team
    Portland Trailblazers
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Post Count
    43,117
    You were flatass wrong about what they consider in their analysis so this ad hominem is of little surprise. It's little surprise that you resort to it rather than admit tehy consider each and everyone of those things you claimed they didn't. You obviously never even looked.

    I will believe the IPCC over a stupid human being with a set agenda.

    If nothing else I can look up their citations where with you I can expect solubility charts and no citations.
    I'm sorry that you believe that bunch of liars.

  7. #332
    Irrefutable Poptech's Avatar
    My Team
    New Jersey Nets
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Post Count
    694
    Words have different meanings. Sorry that you cannot understand that. You can look at them as a whole, as distinct, etc. Instead you want me to show you a specific definition form a dictionary that is exactly in the form that you want it to be in.

    I am not going to play this asinine game with you.
    I am well aware some words can have different meanings but no combination of all the available definitions for the words, "climate change denial" support the implied usage here. Thus, this thread has been falsified as incoherent.

  8. #333
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,830
    I am well aware some words can have different meanings but no combination of all the available definitions for the words, "climate change denial" support the implied usage here.
    And this of course is irrefutable!

    What's you view of the IPCC?

  9. #334
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,830
    I a not the one making these claims.

    Do you really think that they do not consider water solubility in their studies? Really?

    I don't know if they do or not. It seems as though they don't. They most certainly don't acknowledge a few simple truths about the process.

    have any studies to show they do properly account for the process?
    Net CO2 transfer can occur whenever there is a partial pressure difference of CO2 across this interface. The flux can be estimated as the product of a gas transfer coefficient, the solubility of CO2, and the partial pressure difference of CO2 between air and water. The gas transfer coefficient incorporates effects of many physical factors but is usually expressed as a non-linear function of wind speed alone. There is considerable uncertainty about this function (Liss and Merlivat, 1986; Wanninkhof, 1992; Watson et al., 1995). Improvements in the ability to measure CO2 transfer directly e.g., Wanninkhof and McGillis, 1999) may lead to a better knowledge of gas transfer coefficients.
    I'm sorry that you believe that bunch of liars.
    You are such a discerner of truth.

  10. #335
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,830
    Oh and aspie, can you tell us again what your opinion is on whether or not the Earth is warming?

  11. #336
    Irrefutable Poptech's Avatar
    My Team
    New Jersey Nets
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Post Count
    694
    And this of course is irrefutable!
    You can prove me wrong at any time by citing a dictionary that supports the implied usage.

    What's you view of the IPCC?
    It is a biased, flawed and politically motivated organization that does not accurately interpret and represent the science on climate change.

    5,587 references cited in the 2007 IPCC report are not peer-reviewed

    Last in Class: Critics Give U.N. Climate Researchers an 'F' (Fox News, April 19, 2010)
    U.N. Hires Grad Students to Author Key Climate Report (Fox News, November 2, 2011)
    Almost Nothing We've Been Told About the IPCC Is Actually True (Fox News, November 07, 2011)

  12. #337
    Irrefutable Poptech's Avatar
    My Team
    New Jersey Nets
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Post Count
    694
    can you tell us again what your opinion is on whether or not the Earth is warming?
    Drug addict, there has been no warming for the last 14 years,


  13. #338
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,830
    Drug addict, there has been no warming for the last 14 years,

    So for the last 14 years the climate hasn't changed in terms of temperature?

    Also BEST disagrees with you.

  14. #339
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,830
    You can prove me wrong at any time by citing a dictionary that supports the implied usage.


    It is a biased, flawed and politically motivated organization that does not accurately interpret and represent the science on climate change.

    5,587 references cited in the 2007 IPCC report are not peer-reviewed

    Last in Class: Critics Give U.N. Climate Researchers an 'F' (Fox News, April 19, 2010)
    U.N. Hires Grad Students to Author Key Climate Report (Fox News, November 2, 2011)
    Almost Nothing We've Been Told About the IPCC Is Actually True (Fox News, November 07, 2011)
    So you deny anything from the Intergovernmental Panel on CLIMATE CHANGE?

    Its actually funny watching you go robot, aspy.
    Last edited by FuzzyLumpkins; 05-27-2012 at 05:16 AM.

  15. #340
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,830
    And I have to say, when I want to know the current trends in science scientific journals I go to Fox News. After all reports of grades from the Heartland Ins ute and bloggers is where i find my truths from.

    And crediting grad students that work with professors at Universities is the best basis for criticism.

  16. #341
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,830
    Oh, and monkey, Sherwood Idso gets money from oil companies.

  17. #342
    Irrefutable Poptech's Avatar
    My Team
    New Jersey Nets
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Post Count
    694
    So for the last 14 years the climate hasn't changed in terms of temperature?
    It's trended cooler.

    Also BEST disagrees with you.
    Yes they believe that the global temperature trend has come to a standstill,

    Best Confirms Global Temperature Standstill (GWPF, October 29, 2011)

  18. #343
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,830
    GWPF

    In our data, which is only on the land we see no evidence of it having slowed down. Now the evidence which shows that it has been stopped is a combination of land and ocean data. The oceans do not heat as much as the land because it absorbs more of the heat and when the data are combined with the land data then the other groups have shown that when it does seem to be leveling off. We have not seen that in the land data.”
    Yeah that quote sure says that...

  19. #344
    Irrefutable Poptech's Avatar
    My Team
    New Jersey Nets
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Post Count
    694
    So you deny anything from the Intergovernmental Panel on CLIMATE CHANGE?
    I do not deny you made a strawman argument.

    And I have to say, when I want to know the current trends in science scientific journals I go to Fox News. After all reports of grades from the Heartland Ins ute and bloggers is where i find my truths from.

    And crediting grad students that work with professors at Universities is the best basis for criticism.
    No, you get your "science" from reports written by students that cite 5,587 press releases, newspaper and magazine clippings, student theses, newsletters, discussion papers, and literature published by green advocacy groups.
    Last edited by Poptech; 05-27-2012 at 05:51 AM.

  20. #345
    Irrefutable Poptech's Avatar
    My Team
    New Jersey Nets
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Post Count
    694
    "BEST"

  21. #346
    Irrefutable Poptech's Avatar
    My Team
    New Jersey Nets
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Post Count
    694
    Sherwood Idso gets money from oil companies.
    Drug addict, we covered this already. Can you provide evidence of corruption?

  22. #347
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,830
    What you got on the NAS?

    A strong, credible body of scientific evidence shows that climate change is occurring, is caused largely by human activities, and poses significant risks for a broad range of human and natural systems, concludes this panel report from the America's Climate Choices suite of studies. As decision makers respond to these risks, the nation's scientific enterprise can contribute both by continuing to improve understanding of the causes and consequences of climate change, and by improving and expanding the options available to limit the magnitude of climate change and adapt to its impacts. To make this possible, the nation needs a comprehensive, integrated, and flexible climate change research enterprise that is closely linked with action-oriented programs at all levels.
    http://dels.nas.edu/Report/Advancing...e-Change/12782

  23. #348
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
    My Team
    San Antonio Spurs
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Post Count
    22,830
    Drug addict, we covered this already. Can you provide evidence of corruption?
    How your same brain can get this to jive with the arguments you have been making about the IPCC is just hilarious.

    Sophist aspie are you.

  24. #349
    Irrefutable Poptech's Avatar
    My Team
    New Jersey Nets
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Post Count
    694
    What you got on the NAS?
    What about it?

  25. #350
    Irrefutable Poptech's Avatar
    My Team
    New Jersey Nets
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Post Count
    694
    How your same brain can get this to jive with the arguments you have been making about the IPCC is just hilarious.
    Drug addict, I can actually support my claims.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •