b-b-b-but barry was supposed to get your vote when he breathed life into those poor 800,000 illegals bow down and worship him
b-b-b-but barry was supposed to get your vote when he breathed life into those poor 800,000 illegals bow down and worship him
That would be a good new thread if ElNono wants to participate.b-b-b-but barry was supposed to get your vote when he breathed life into those poor 800,000 illegals bow down and worship him
What is ElNono's perspective on catering to illegals?
I miss the 1/2 hr News hour...
you said you wanted more tax payers.
what happened?
Yeah, I gotta get on with that. I'm just getting acquainted with local politics, tbh.
I don't particularly like illegal aliens. Stated so many times. That said I don't necessarily disagree that these kids that didn't immigrate on their own volition should be something to be addressed along with proper reform and border control. I just can't condone this electoral "policy change".b-b-b-but barry was supposed to get your vote when he breathed life into those poor 800,000 illegals bow down and worship him
Yes, I remember that. One of the things I do appreciate about you. Just wish more people would stop wanting illegal workers.
Which hunt?
I hope Holder goes down and does jail time, and Obama is also investigated for crimes committed as president post-ousting come February.
everybody knows that it's the DEA, FBI, etc bringing the drugs in, but shame on you for getting caught.
Don't hold your breath on that...
BTW, since you were talking about South America countries, I just heard Uruguay is close to depenalize cannabis for personal consumption.
every country on earth should follow suit, i don't smoke but i dont give a shit if you do and i'd like to see the cartels money source go away
I have always said the easiest way to end all the bullshit with the cartels would be for the US to legalize pot....like you said...take their cash cow away.
It's not that easy..they have already branched into Africa and are using failed states as a hub into Europe. The shit needs to be legalized worldwide.
Legalising weed isn't enough; you gotta legalise coke and heroin too if you want to kill the black market drug trade.
In what "political gamesmanship" has Issa engaged?
He is the Chair of a legitimate Congressional Committee charged with exactly what he's doing -- overseeing the activities of the Justice Department.
Is it political that the ATFE Agency urged gun stores in the Southwest United States to allow straw purchases of large numbers of assault weapons? No.
Is it political that the ICE Agency allowed those guns to be carried across an international border with Mexico unchallenged and un-tracked? No.
Is it political that those guns were then used by vicious drug cartels to murder innocent Mexican nationals by the hundreds and one Border Patrol Agent? No.
Is it political for a legitimate Congressional Committee to want answers on how such a fiasco occurred? No.
Is it political for that Committee to demand all communications, related to the operation, in an effort to discern the truth? No.
Now, is it political for the Committee vote on strict party lines on a citation holding Eric Holder in contempt of Congress for failing to produce the requested communications? Yes but, which party is being the strict partisan?
If you conclude Fast and Furious is an activity over which Issa's Committee has a legitimate interest in investigating and, further, you conclude the Attorney General has an obligation to provide the investigating committee whatever materials -- related to the activity -- that are requested; then, I can't see how you can conclude anything other than the Democrats on the Committee are the ones playing politics.
I'll be interested to see how many Democrats vote against the Contempt Citation in the full House. Can we stipulate now that if there are more Democrats voting to cite Holder for Contempt of Congress than there are Republicans voting against the citation, it is a bi-partisan effort in which the Democrats are playing party politics?
Is it political that a White House which said it knew nothing about the Fast and Furious fiasco and only learned about it through news reports would now invoke Executive Privilege in an effort to shield the Attorney General from having to produce materials which, if the President is to be believed, enjoy no such privilege? Yes. I has to be political, nothing else explains it...except, of course, the desire of the President not to be caught in the act of covering up a crime by his Attorney General -- and others within his administration.
By the way, I'm all for a special prosecutor and I think one's coming but, first, let's agree the Attorney General has a constitutional obligation to produce 100% of the materials requested by the Committee duly authorized to investigate Fast & Furious, shall we?
Thank God.
If Agent Terry hadn't been killed, the U. S. weapons showing up at Mexican crime scenes would have been a good pretext for re-instituting the assault weapons ban.
I believe Holder as much as said so.
Then you should be in favor of the Justice Department turning over every shred of material even remotely related to a U. S. Government Program that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of Mexican nationals and one U. S. Border Patrol Agent. Every. single. piece. of. material.
You should also be in favor of holding an Attorney General in contempt of Congress who fails to be immediately forthcoming.
If the House committee cites Holder for criminal contempt, it would open a process that requires the House speaker to schedule a floor vote. If passed by the full House, the matter would then move to the U.S. attorney for the District of Columbia, Ronald C. Machen Jr., who is an employee of the Justice Department.
it's a dog and pony show. If Issa wanted to get to the truth, he would've requested a special prosecutor a long time ago, when it was obvious this wasn't going anywhere with the elections coming up. But Issa isn't interested in the truth, he wants to score his political points, and it's probably pretty annoying to him nobody really cares...
Opinion.
Holder said he would like re-instituting the assault weapons ban when Congress was run by Democrats. He didn't need weapons to show up anywhere to present such a bill to Congress. Apparently, he didn't feel strongly enough about it to do so.
I never said I oppose the Justice Department turning over the papers... I simply said I understand why they don't do it, considering who's asking. This could've all been resolved a while ago should Issa had the balls to actually put the nation over his party. We're still waiting.
I said Holder lied. Do I need to add anything else? The whole 'contempt' dog and pony show is just that, and unfortunately will delay the actual independent investigation that could've started a long time ago. We'll wait I guess.
I don't know Ronald C. Machen, Jr. or his politics. I would expect Mr. Machen to do his job. Are you suggesting he's in the bag for his boss? I think you need to learn the difference between political and career employees.
I think Issa is following the established process. I also suspect that if he believes the process breaks down -- at Machen's stop or elsewhere -- he'll take it to the next lever which is probably requesting a special prosecutor.
If you want an example of a political dog and pony show, look no further than those bunch of Congress Idiots that held a mock impeachment of President Bush in the basement of the House. Or, since you bring up special prosecutors, that idiot who even after learning -- very early in his assignment -- that it was Richard Armitage that leaked Valerie Plame's name to Bob Novak, went about, like a bull in a china shop, rambling through the Bush Administration until he was able to prosecute Cheney's Chief of Staff for having a bad memory. THAT was a political witch hunt.
What do you have against the legitimate function of Congressional oversight?
Fast and Furious is exactly the type of issue oversight Committees are designed to sort out.
Perhaps you should read up on the Saturday Night Massacre or, better yet, look at how Kenneth Starr was demonized, before you think a special prosecutor is the way to go.
Ronald C. Machen Jr.
United States Attorney Ronald C. Machen Jr.
Ronald C. Machen Jr. was nominated to serve as United States Attorney for the District of Columbia by President Barack Obama on December 24, 2009. Mr. Machen’s appointment was confirmed by the United States Senate on February 11, 2010.
What do you think Yoni?
If the process wasn't already broken (debatable), the announcement that the documents are now under executive privilege basically make the "contempt" vote irrelevant, and the process irremediably broken. But I'm sure Issa will love the televised dog and pony show.
Not really...
It would be a lot easier to sell if there were a reason...
Obama to Seek New Assault Weapons Ban
It's called building a case.Holder said that putting the ban back in place would not only be a positive move by the United States, it would help cut down on the flow of guns going across the border into Mexico, which is struggling with heavy violence among drug cartels along the border.
"I think that will have a positive impact in Mexico, at a minimum." Holder said at a news conference on the arrest of more than 700 people in a drug enforcement crackdown on Mexican drug cartels operating in the U.S.
Mexican government officials have complained that the availability of sophisticated guns from the United States have emboldened drug traffickers to fight over access routes into the U.S.
The Congressional Committee having oversight of the Justice Department?
Really, how?
I think we disagree.
You're right, Holder has lied. But, going forward with the Contempt vote seem to force Obama to invoke executive privilege. Why? Why would he do that if the White House had no knowledge of the Fast and Furious Operation before seeing something about it in the media?
As one retired federal prosecutor (who also happened to work in the White House Counsel's office dealing specifically with privilege matters) put it, earlier today; those document must really screw Obama's pooch if he's willing to assert executive privilege over a matter in which -- to date -- he denied having any involvement.
I think, if nothing else, the drumbeat will grow -- from both sides of the ideological rope -- for the Administration to come clean and fork over the materials. All of them.
Also from 2009...
Counting Mexico's Guns
Obama was embarrassed for the next week or more for his false claim that 90% of the guns recovered at Mexican crimes come from the U.S.In recent weeks, efforts by the United States and Mexico to stop the illegal transfer of guns and drugs along their shared border have been on the front burner. U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano traveled to Mexico earlier this month to meet with their Mexican counterparts to discuss what can be done. And this week President Barack Obama traveled down south to continue talks between the two nations.
Obama would have been correct to say that 90 percent of the guns submitted for tracing by Mexican authorities were then traced to the U.S. The percentage of all recovered guns that came from the U.S. is unknown.During a joint press conference with President Felipe Calderón of Mexico, Obama said of the raging violence by Mexican drug gangs:
Obama, April 16: A demand for these drugs in the United States is what is helping to keep these cartels in business. This war is being waged with guns purchased not here, but in the United States. More than 90 percent of the guns recovered in Mexico come from the United States, many from gun shops that line our shared border.
It would make sense Fast and Furious was an effort to try and make the reality more closely resemble his lie. They sure weren't trying to track them.
I think Issa knows exactly for what he's asking. So does Holder -- which is why he has been stonewalling for over a year. So does Obama -- which is why he cast the executive privilege net over the whole thing when it became apparent Issa was calling Holder's bluff.
Obama plays politics and now the other side of the bipolar spectrum posture. Conflating it to watergate is fun and all but until Deepthroat starts making links to the WH to the press then its just posturing.
If you don't like it then get with my program and demand fundamental change to our political process. Otherwise bitching about typical maneuvering is just that. Might as well blame one side or another for filibustering.
If he actually had balls and maneuvered like this in another way than in reaction/CYA mode I might respect him a little more. It's not like its LBJ out there.
"The man who does not do his own thinking is a slave, and is a traitor to himself and to his fellow-men." -George Ingersoll
"Honor is simply the morality of superior men." -Henry Mencken
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I think I expect Mr. Machen to do his job.Ronald C. Machen Jr.
United States Attorney Ronald C. Machen Jr.
Ronald C. Machen Jr. was nominated to serve as United States Attorney for the District of Columbia by President Barack Obama on December 24, 2009. Mr. Machen’s appointment was confirmed by the United States Senate on February 11, 2010.
What do you think Yoni?
Asserting executive privilege doesn't automatically make it so.
In fact, it's a pretty weak case when you've been under subpoena, for almost a year, to produce documents that -- all during that time -- could have been declared privileged but only become so when Congress threatens you with a contempt citation?
This just ramps it up a notch.
Those documents must really be dynamite if Obama wants them kept secret.
I think Rep. Gowdy explained it best today.
http://youtu.be/2lIWMghw9Yg
Absolutely opinion.
According to who, you?
There's plenty of Dems in Congress more than happy to pass such legislation if they could. In 2009, they could've.
There's no such thing as a "Congressional Committee having oversight of the Justice Department". Issa chairs the House Committee on Oversight. A Republican majority committee.
Congress is obviously allowed to go into whatever fishing expedition they want to go. It's unfortunate that their political gamesmanship is delaying an actual independent investigation of a serious matter.
Handing over the investigation to a special prosecutor to remove the cloud of partisanship over the investigation. Something he already agree he would need to do. One wonders what's taking so long.
Barry already invoked executive privilege. There's no contempt vote yet. Issa isn't getting those documents, so the contempt vote amounts to a dog and pony show.
As far as why, one could easily conclude the election coming up is no minor factor in this show. Issa wasn't convinced about Holder telling the truth a year ago either, why didn't he call a contempt vote then?
While i do not disagree with the ideal, this statement is incredibly naive. Its US politics not utopia.
That or he is stalling the controversy until after the election.Asserting executive privilege doesn't automatically make it so.
In fact, it's a pretty weak case when you've been under subpoena, for almost a year, to produce documents that -- all during that time -- could have been declared privileged but only become so when Congress threatens you with a contempt citation?
This just ramps it up a notch.
Those documents must really be dynamite if Obama wants them kept secret.
And with a congress that is in partisan gridlock, executive privilege is what it is. If the appeal goes through the court then good luck getting it seen this year.
He has superiors. Obeying his superiors is part of his job description.
Apparently it was good enough when Rove decided to ignore a Congressional subpoena. See earlier posts.
I disagree.
Hell, it took just about all the wind in their sails to get Obamacare passed. Why? Because they wanted Republican cover for passing that piece of shit. It's all about being able to pass the blame around.According to who, you?
There's plenty of Dems in Congress more than happy to pass such legislation if they could. In 2009, they could've.
When Obama took officer there was no reason to re-institute the weapons ban. Obama said one of his plans was to do just that. Why? Well, according to him, Holder, and Napolitano there were so many goddamned U.S. guns killing Mexicans it was a good idea. Problem? That wasn't true. Solution? Make it true.
Oversight is in the fucking title.
Holder and, now, Obama are delaying the investigation.
Archibald Cox. Special Prosecutor fired by Nixon during the Saturday Night Massacre.
Kenneth Star. Special Prosecutor (overseen by a three-judge panel that approved every thing he did in his investigation) vilified and demonized by the partisan left for following an investigation of President Clinton where it took him.
Patrick Fitzgerald. Special Prosecutor that ramped up a witch hunt after the question he was appointed to answer was solved in the very earliest days of his investigation.
"Remove the cloud of partisanship" my ass.
Why didn't he invoke it sooner? Why did Holder offer to turn over materials now considered to be protected by privilege if the Committee would promise to end its investigation?
You obviously haven't been following the story. And, if anyone's worried about the election, it should be Obama who could have compelled his Attorney General to cooperate a hell of a long time ago.
I'm pretty sure U. S. Attorney's take an oath that supersedes any illegal suggestions he may get from his superiors.
Again, are you suggesting Machen wouldn't do his job?
Rove was a presidential adviser subpoenaed on a matter that would have required him to testify on counsel he gave the President of the United States. The specific situation for which Executive Privilege was designed.
Holder is a Department Head subpoenaed on a matter that would have required him to testify on a crime that allegedly occurred in his agency and in which the President of the United States claims absolutely no involvement.
I think this assertion of Executive Privilege may end up with the Supremes.
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