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  1. #31
    $ isn't Green, Green is $
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    This gets overstated all the time on this board. Ginobili was a free agent twice, with this off-season being the second time. The first time, there was a rumored offer from Denver which was six years, $8-9 Million a year. Ginobili ended up signing for six years starting at about $6 Million. Why he signed for six years, I have no idea. Even if he were all about sacrifice, he didn't have to sign for that long. But I think he did because that was best offer that was actually extended to him. But whatever.

    After he was almost done with that contract, he signed for a max extension in lieu of going to free agency. Before people laud him for that sacrifice, remember he had just come off one of his worse seasons, and there were serious thoughts that the team was going to trade him away or at least let him walk. Washington offered the fifth-overall pick and Arenas for him, which the Spurs thankfully rejected. Then Ginobili blows up and signed his extension, which gave him the security he needed in case he had a bad finish to the year.

    Manu could have tried to wait until free agency to try for a max offer. During his prime, he probably could have gotten one. But he also signed hefty deals with the Spurs to forgo that. He's never done anything like Duncan and purposefully took less so that the team could stay together (at least from what's been confirmed). If anything, he was like Parker in that he signed long-term deals at the wrong times. That doesn't make him a money-grubbing selfish player now. But it also didn't make him a saint then.

  2. #32
    I'm The Dude DPG21920's Avatar
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    This contract, coming off of the letdown he was to Tim and TP and Pop in the finals, was a bit greedy. But I digress.

  3. #33
    Believe. weebo's Avatar
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    This gets overstated all the time on this board. Ginobili was a free agent twice, with this off-season being the second time. The first time, there was a rumored offer from Denver which was six years, $8-9 Million a year. Ginobili ended up signing for six years starting at about $6 Million. Why he signed for six years, I have no idea. Even if he were all about sacrifice, he didn't have to sign for that long. But I think he did because that was best offer that was actually extended to him. But whatever.

    After he was almost done with that contract, he signed for a max extension in lieu of going to free agency. Before people laud him for that sacrifice, remember he had just come off one of his worse seasons, and there were serious thoughts that the team was going to trade him away or at least let him walk. Washington offered the fifth-overall pick and Arenas for him, which the Spurs thankfully rejected. Then Ginobili blows up and signed his extension, which gave him the security he needed in case he had a bad finish to the year.

    Manu could have tried to wait until free agency to try for a max offer. During his prime, he probably could have gotten one. But he also signed hefty deals with the Spurs to forgo that. He's never done anything like Duncan and purposefully took less so that the team could stay together (at least from what's been confirmed). If anything, he was like Parker in that he signed long-term deals at the wrong times. That doesn't make him a money-grubbing selfish player now. But it also didn't make him a saint then.
    Again, Manu sacrificed money, stats, fame, etc. to remain on the team. You can't sit there and say what went on behind closed doors during those negotiations. Maybe the Spurs FO promised to take care of him at the end of his career if he signed with the Spurs for less. However, who really knows....

    All we know now is this...Manu was instrumental in the '05 and '07 championships. You can spin it any way you want but that is fact. The Spurs don't win in '05 and '07 w/o Manu being Manu.

    You said yourself...he could have gotten the max from some team because in his prime he was a max player. Now the Spurs are rewarding Manu for his many years of service and loyalty. You guys make it sound like he just signed some outrageous deal that will hamstring the Spurs from signing Lebron next year. SMH

  4. #34
    коммунизма ведет baseline bum's Avatar
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    Sickens me how people on here act like they're owed Manu taking a mini MLE or even a minimum deal. Manu has more than earned that contract and I'm glad he's back.
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  5. #35
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Again, Manu sacrificed money, stats, fame, etc. to remain on the team. You can't sit there and say what went on behind closed doors during those negotiations. Maybe the Spurs FO promised to take care of him at the end of his career if he signed with the Spurs for less. However, who really knows....
    Did you really just posit what went on behind closed doors, then try to tell me not to do that?

    All we know now is this...Manu was instrumental in the '05 and '07 championships. You can spin it any way you want but that is fact. The Spurs don't win in '05 and '07 w/o Manu being Manu.

    You said yourself...he could have gotten the max from some team because in his prime he was a max player. Now the Spurs are rewarding Manu for his many years of service and loyalty. You guys make it sound like he just signed some outrageous deal that will hamstring the Spurs from signing Lebron next year. SMH
    As for the rest of the post, I don't even know what you're trying to argue. I've already said if Ginobili didn't lock himself into deals at the wrong time, he'd have made more money. That's not the same thing as taking less to help the team. Only Duncan has been in that position and (twice) decided to take well below his projected market value to keep the team under the tax. He's the only player who had all the leverage in the world and decided not to use it. When Ginobili had the leverage, he got a max extension with every little perk that could be thrown into it.

    No one is saying Ginobili was worth more than he got paid. He had max-player production for a few years, and I think he would have gotten a max deal if he were a free agent in his prime. But he wasn't, and that was because he signed an eventual $91M/9 deal, which in case you're wondering is almost exactly what Parker has made over the same time frame. That's a hell of a lot of money that he guaranteed himself by staying with the same team. There's no way that that can be interpreted as a bad business decision on his part unless you assume he knew exactly how history was going to unfold. Both he and the team did what they thought was best, and it worked out for both of them. No one got screwed over, and no one was overly generous.

  6. #36
    Believe. dunkman's Avatar
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    Up to the MLE would have been reasonable, but $7M was too much.

  7. #37
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Sickens me how people on here act like they're owed Manu taking a mini MLE or even a minimum deal. Manu has more than earned that contract and I'm glad he's back.
    I think he's received fair deals his whole career and that he received another one this season. Most people think he was heavily underpaid and/or overpaid at various points of his career. I don't.

  8. #38
    Believe. SpursSerb's Avatar
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    No other team would give him more than Spurs this summer,not even close.
    Last edited by SpursSerb; 07-15-2013 at 04:22 PM.

  9. #39
    Believe. TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    Again, Manu sacrificed money, stats, fame, etc. to remain on the team. You can't sit there and say what went on behind closed doors during those negotiations. Maybe the Spurs FO promised to take care of him at the end of his career if he signed with the Spurs for less. However, who really knows....
    Manu rejected an $8M contract from Denver to take $6M from the Spurs like Chinook said... yeah what huge sacrifice .

    All we know now is this...Manu was instrumental in the '05 and '07 championships. You can spin it any way you want but that is fact. The Spurs don't win in '05 and '07 w/o Manu being Manu.
    Without Duncan, we have ZERO championships. TD took one for the team. Please don't compare them.

    You said yourself...he could have gotten the max from some team because in his prime he was a max player. Now the Spurs are rewarding Manu for his many years of service and loyalty. You guys make it sound like he just signed some outrageous deal that will hamstring the Spurs from signing Lebron next year. SMH
    This is why I hate arguing with Manutards. How many championships has loyalty gotten us for the past 6 years?
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  10. #40
    Believe.
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    Manu gave us a huge discount in his prime. well earned. besides, nobody twisted the Front officeses arm to pay the man a little more than hes worth.
    Gave us a discount? Being injured and hurt all the time when spurs needed him most is a discount?

  11. #41
    Believe.
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    Manu must be the most CODDLED "max" star that's ever been. He's always played limited minutes even when young. His lack of consistency and flashes of brilliance tease and drive fans crazy at the same time. It's all or nothing for him and recently, as in the past couple years, it's been closer to nothing. His play is worth nowhere close to $14.5m for 2 years - but he's hella popular and didn't do the Spurs any favor with this last contract. For me, with this last playoff performance, Spurs would be forgiven even by the most rabid Manu fans for giving him closer to his real value.
    Last edited by rmt; 07-15-2013 at 04:36 PM.

  12. #42
    one for the thumb phxspurfan's Avatar
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    Whatever, the Big Three will all finish together and be done in two years and that's the point. Good for the Spurs to stay together and good for Manu to get his lifetime achievement award.
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  13. #43
    I'm The Dude DPG21920's Avatar
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    Sickens me how people on here act like they're owed Manu taking a mini MLE or even a minimum deal. Manu has more than earned that contract and I'm glad he's back.
    Crofl, hyperbole much? The fact is SA is a special small market. The best player in the history of the franchise has taken much less than he is worth to give the team a shot a title and is still elite and performing. TP is making way less than market value and improving his game. The only guy that is not improving is also the only one not sacrificing any money for the team. I can understand how that does not sit well with people. I am also happy he is back. They are not mutually exclusive.

  14. #44
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    I doubt he would have taken the vet min I thought the mle is what he would take
    IMO he is not above the average player with minutes he can only play and is injury prone
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    ďItís hard for me to congratulate somebody after you just lose to them,Ē James said. ďIím a winner. Itís not being a poor sport or anything like that. If somebody beats you up, youíre not going to congratulate them. That doesnít make sense to me. Iím a competitor. Thatís what I do. It doesnít make sense for me to go over and shake somebodyís hand.Ē
    he had to email it to howard could not tell someone in person that


  15. #45
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    Sickens me how people on here act like they're owed Manu taking a mini MLE or even a minimum deal. Manu has more than earned that contract and I'm glad he's back.
    sicken me that he has a history off playing well in the 4 quarter the other teamates get him in that postion and manu is the only player to get credit for the win

  16. #46
    Believe.
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    I doubt he would have taken the vet min I thought the mle is what he would take
    IMO he is not above the average player with minutes he can only play and is injury prone
    I agree. No one's talking about vet min - most fans would be happy with around $5+ per year.

  17. #47
    Believe.
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    sicken me that he has a history off playing well in the 4 quarter the other teamates get him in that postion and manu is the only player to get credit for the win
    I don't begrudge him his reputation for 4th quarter clutch heroics. His not admitting that he played so poorly this playoffs grates on me. His including the team with his poor play is a joke - Duncan, Leonard and Green all performed above expected.

  18. #48
    Never Believe Mikeanaro's Avatar
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    14,5 millions is because he had bad contracts in the past, now that he is done they are giving him big money like they did Finley
    Last edited by Mikeanaro; 07-15-2013 at 04:50 PM.

  19. #49
    Never Believe Mikeanaro's Avatar
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    I think next season Manu is gonna explode, not in an emotional way, more like this

  20. #50
    bandwagoner fans suck ducks's Avatar
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    and also what annoys me is that the spurs beat writer said manu was underpaid for manu years
    wtf? did spurs pay jeff to post such stupidest to try to satisfy the fans?
    how much money has the spurs paid him already before the deal?
    denver never even gave him a formal offer according to him last fa
    imo he was never going anywhere

  21. #51
    Believe. TheGoldStandard's Avatar
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    Too much for as little as we'll get from him at this stage in his career but the majority of people seem to be okay with this so I won't argue the point..

  22. #52
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    It's always hard to judge these things, but my thought process is roughly as follows -

    Tim took a 50% pay cut after coming off a solid 15.4/9/2 season on very good efficiency for a big man (49.2% from the field), and that's not even considering what he brings to defense. He had one of his best defensive seasons last season in addition to improving his offensive stats, but nobody could've guessed that so we can only really go by his '11-'12 numbers.

    Manu had his worst (or maybe 2nd worst) season in the history of his career from efficiency to injuries to you name it. He also took a 50% pay cut.

    Tim's 50% cut is the metric I use to judge Manu.

  23. #53
    I'm The Dude DPG21920's Avatar
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    I made the same Chinook argument with regards to Duncan before to. While Tim has taken less money, he is still a top 10 paid player of all time IIRC so it's not like the Spurs didn't take care of him. But when it got to the stage where the Spurs needed more, Duncan (and to a lesser degree Parker) took less and are still performing at a high level consistently. Manu is not.

  24. #54
    Veteran temujin's Avatar
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    It's always extremely hilarious when people most likely NOT making more than 100 K/year are bitching about rich men paying, or overpaying, another rich man.

  25. #55
    Believe.
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    He got $14.5 million. Great. I've lost my mind over this already. Now I'll have to rob somebody else's mind so I can't lose it, too.





  26. #56
    Lab Animal Capt Bringdown's Avatar
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    Gotta sell those jerseys. Manu speaks spanish, that's all that matters to large segment of casual Spurs fans.
    There's no basketball reason to make such a commitment to a scrub.
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  27. #57
    Believe. TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    It's always hard to judge these things, but my thought process is roughly as follows -

    Tim took a 50% pay cut after coming off a solid 15.4/9/2 season on very good efficiency for a big man (49.2% from the field), and that's not even considering what he brings to defense. He had one of his best defensive seasons last season in addition to improving his offensive stats, but nobody could've guessed that so we can only really go by his '11-'12 numbers.

    Manu had his worst (or maybe 2nd worst) season in the history of his career from efficiency to injuries to you name it. He also took a 50% pay cut.

    Tim's 50% cut is the metric I use to judge Manu.
    Can you read the comments before you state your opinion? Stop with this "Manu took a 50% pay cut" argument because he didn't . If you read the comments above, you'll note that Manu DID NOT take a pay cut from his market value. If Manu would have taken a 50% pay cut, then he should of resigned for $3.5M/year or $7M/2year and not the bloated $14M/2 year contract that he took. In my very personal opinion, Manu's not even worth $7M/year market value but that's just me.

  28. #58
    I'm The Dude DPG21920's Avatar
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    Well, no matter on how much we may agree on what we think Manu's market value is/was, it's a fact he took a 50% pay cut from last year.

  29. #59
    Believe.
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    Crofl, hyperbole much? The fact is SA is a special small market. The best player in the history of the franchise has taken much less than he is worth to give the team a shot a title and is still elite and performing. TP is making way less than market value and improving his game. The only guy that is not improving is also the only one not sacrificing any money for the team. I can understand how that does not sit well with people. I am also happy he is back. They are not mutually exclusive.
    Apparently if you think Manu is even slightly overpaid, you're a ungrateful shithead who doesn't recognize anything he has done for the Spurs and you aren't happy to have him back.

  30. #60
    Believe. TheGreatYacht's Avatar
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    Well, no matter on how much we may agree on what we think Manu's market value is/was, it's a fact he took a 50% pay cut from last year.
    Yeah but not from the market value. TD is underpaid according to his market value. Based on your argument, then Manu deserved to resign with the Spurs for $28M.

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