Manu didn't get $14 million from the Spurs...

[ohmwrecker]

Manu will be playing for his legacy these next 2 seasons. I don't believe he is the kind of dude that is satisfied with where it currently stands. I hope I'm not wrong.

[ElNono]

Manu is STILL in SA cause a people like you,he appeals to simpletons who can't see beyond a flag/language,who happen to purchase a lot of tickets and jerseys.

It's business pure and simple

Cue the "asshurt" burns from the peanut gallery

I'm sure that's one of the reasons, but they had no problem letting go of other fan favorite players before. Bowen, Malik Rose, etc, so there's clearly more to it than just that. Ultimately, winning is what put people in seats.

The Spurs certainly aren't looking to appeal to me. I live on the other side of the country, tbh...

ElNono still ning dat

I'm bored and addressing the 'Spurs have a love/hate relationship with Manu' canard and the revisionist history seemed like a good way to kill some time.

timvp throwing raw meat to a pack of wolves with predictable results...

[mountainballer]

Mel
no insult to wolves please!

[FRE3]

maybe if he didn't play int'l bball this summer he will get the incentive of $500k???

[Brazil]

I'm sure that's one of the reasons, but they had no problem letting go of other fan favorite players before. Bowen, Malik Rose, etc, so there's clearly more to it than just that. Ultimately, winning is what put people in seats.

The Spurs certainly aren't looking to appeal to me. I live on the other side of the country, tbh...



I'm bored and addressing the 'Spurs have a love/hate relationship with Manu' canard and the revisionist history seemed like a good way to kill some time.

Offseason duties tbh

How's is life ? Family work?

[Stabula]

this idea of "we need to be loyal to Manu and get him paid for all he's done for SA in the past". Manu, today, is not worth this much money it doesn't matter how amazing he was a decade ago.

[TheGreatYacht]

this idea of "we need to be loyal to Manu and get him paid for all he's done for SA in the past". Manu, today, is not worth this much money it doesn't matter how amazing he was a decade ago.

[ElNono]

Offseason duties tbh

How's is life ? Family work?

Busy busy busy... it's just such a tease out there with 90 degrees... pretty hot summer for the northeast... sup with you? how's winter down south?

[HI-FI]

ElNono still ning dat

went from Jay Carney in the regular season to Ari Fleischer since 6. I don't know what will cause him to stop spinning. Perhaps if Manu blew 2 more finals for us and was involved in some horrible murder scandal, there would be a slight chance the spinning would ease up. I have to admit, like Leni Riefenstahl, he makes propaganda into an art.

[cjw]

This gets overstated all the time on this board. Ginobili was a free agent twice, with this off-season being the second time. The first time, there was a rumored offer from Denver which was six years, $8-9 Million a year. Ginobili ended up signing for six years starting at about $6 Million. Why he signed for six years, I have no idea. Even if he were all about sacrifice, he didn't have to sign for that long. But I think he did because that was best offer that was actually extended to him. But whatever.

After he was almost done with that contract, he signed for a max extension in lieu of going to free agency. Before people laud him for that sacrifice, remember he had just come off one of his worse seasons, and there were serious thoughts that the team was going to trade him away or at least let him walk. Washington offered the fifth-overall pick and Arenas for him, which the Spurs thankfully rejected. Then Ginobili blows up and signed his extension, which gave him the security he needed in case he had a bad finish to the year.

Manu could have tried to wait until free agency to try for a max offer. During his prime, he probably could have gotten one. But he also signed hefty deals with the Spurs to forgo that. He's never done anything like Duncan and purposefully took less so that the team could stay together (at least from what's been confirmed). If anything, he was like Parker in that he signed long-term deals at the wrong times. That doesn't make him a money-grubbing selfish player now. But it also didn't make him a saint then.

Thank you. He could have taken a discount, but in retrospect any reasonable discount wouldn't have put the team under the cap to a point where it could exceed the full MLE. And it turned out there just weren't players out there to sign for the entire MLE. To me, it's water under the bridge at this point, who really cares? Kevin Martin got paid the same amount annually for 2x the years and he's what Simmons would call a DH. Doesn't play a lick of D.

[ElNono]

went from Jay Carney in the regular season to Ari Fleischer since 6. I don't know what will cause him to stop spinning. Perhaps if Manu blew 2 more finals for us and was involved in some horrible murder scandal, there would be a slight chance the spinning would ease up. I have to admit, like Leni Riefenstahl, he makes propaganda into an art.

[Brazil]

Busy busy busy... it's just such a tease out there with 90 degrees... pretty hot summer for the northeast... sup with you? how's winter down south?

Favorite season of the year. No rain super sunny healthy temperature at night to sleep. Paradise ! Love my house and I'm on holidays for two weeks with my parents visiting us. We are having a good time.

[Dverde]

One positive thing is that the Spurs have shown other players that if you win championships, the franchise will reward you for it.

[TheGoldStandard]

One positive thing is that the Spurs have shown other players that if you win championships, the franchise will reward you for it.

Or if you're name is Matt Bonner

[poeticism707]

This gets overstated all the time on this board. Ginobili was a free agent twice, with this off-season being the second time. The first time, there was a rumored offer from Denver which was six years, $8-9 Million a year. Ginobili ended up signing for six years starting at about $6 Million. Why he signed for six years, I have no idea. Even if he were all about sacrifice, he didn't have to sign for that long. But I think he did because that was best offer that was actually extended to him. But whatever.

After he was almost done with that contract, he signed for a max extension in lieu of going to free agency. Before people laud him for that sacrifice, remember he had just come off one of his worse seasons, and there were serious thoughts that the team was going to trade him away or at least let him walk. Washington offered the fifth-overall pick and Arenas for him, which the Spurs thankfully rejected. Then Ginobili blows up and signed his extension, which gave him the security he needed in case he had a bad finish to the year.

Manu could have tried to wait until free agency to try for a max offer. During his prime, he probably could have gotten one. But he also signed hefty deals with the Spurs to forgo that. He's never done anything like Duncan and purposefully took less so that the team could stay together (at least from what's been confirmed). If anything, he was like Parker in that he signed long-term deals at the wrong times. That doesn't make him a money-grubbing selfish player now. But it also didn't make him a saint then.

LOL at thinking Manu was EVER A MAX PLAYER.

I suppose anyone who thought Manu was, at any point in his career, better than Dirk, I guess this fits.

Homerism is a degenerative disease.

[ducks]

people here thought he was better then kobe

[Chinook]

LOL at thinking Manu was EVER A MAX PLAYER.

I suppose anyone who thought Manu was, at any point in his career, better than Dirk, I guess this fits.

Homerism is a degenerative disease.

Why did you quote me when you said that? My post is pretty neutral and just explains why Ginobili got the deals he did.

[poeticism707]

people here thought he was better then kobe

[poeticism707]

Why did you quote me when you said that? My post is pretty neutral and just explains why Ginobili got the deals he did.

You brought Manu "possibly trying for a Max contract."

The only place Manu is worth a Max contract is the D-League.

Edit: at no point in his career, was Manu a Max level player.

Don't even think such thoughts.

[Chinook]

You brought Manu "possibly trying for a Max contract."

The only place Manu is worth a Max contract is the D-League.

I don't mean now, but I do mean when he was in his prime, or even after the 2010 season, when a record number of players got max deals. If players such as Rudy Gay and Joe Johnson could get $82 Million and $120 Million, respectively, you better believe Ginobili could have gotten a two- or three-year max deal coming off a 19/6/4 year while also leading the league in steals. , Amare Stoudimire got $100 Million after having two near-career-ending injuries. That off-season was crazy.

[poeticism707]

It's not complicated, and IMO, no right or wrong. Manu was ranked #11 in production (PER) among guards last season in the entire league. (http://bkref.com/tiny/r7kCw)

The average salary amongst the top 10 guards was $11.3m (and that includes at least 4 rookie deals, Irving, Curry, Harden & Wall).

After that, you had Calderon at #12 making $11m in Detroit (now signed a $7.5m/season deal with the Mavs). Conley after that, who will be making about $8m. So, you know, production wise, it's easy to see why the Spurs might've thought somebody might throw $8m-$10m at Manu by looking at the hard numbers alone. Under that view, $7m, give or take, it's an excellent deal, especially since it's only a 2 season deal. You could even argue he made a "significant sacrifice" signing at that kind of money, since his market value could've been potentially bigger.

Fact is, the Spurs didn't want to find out what the market value was. They wanted to make sure he would be back because they value what he does and think replacing that it's going to be very difficult (RC Buford words). Disagreeing with that is fine. At the end of the day one opinion isn't any different than another.

Great facts as usual, Nono, but irrelevant. The Spurs win 55 games a season every year, because of Duncan, TP, Pop, and the program. The regular season is beyond irrelevant. The playoffs is where you earn your money, or your loser rep. You know, Finals, Spurs up 5, 28 secs to go, and so called super Manu misses a free throw like the old, washed up scrub he is, and Spurs lose. Nevermind his 10 turnovers a game or so.

Manu had a chance to justify the Spurs staying with him, even when has foolishly spent his body every Summer for free, and even with Pop's mastermind limiting of his mins, he still has been hurt bad every year badly in the Playoffs since 2007.

I would have ABSOLUTELY TAKEN ELLIS FOR 7.25M A YEAR OVER MANU.

[ElNono]

Great facts as usual, Nono, but irrelevant. The Spurs win 55 games a season every year, because of Duncan, TP, Pop, and the program. The regular season is beyond irrelevant. The playoffs is where you earn your money, or your loser rep. You know, Finals, Spurs up 5, 28 secs to go, and so called super Manu misses a free throw like the old, washed up scrub he is, and Spurs lose. Nevermind his 10 turnovers a game or so.

Manu had a chance to justify the Spurs staying with him, even when has foolishly spent his body every Summer for free, and even with Pop's mastermind limiting of his mins, he still has been hurt bad every year badly in the Playoffs since 2007.

I would have ABSOLUTELY TAKEN ELLIS FOR 7.25M A YEAR OVER MANU.

Well, it isn't irrelevant when we're looking at a contract that was just signed, and looking at where that value might come from.

You might not agree with the Spurs handing that contract to Manu, and that's fine. I particularly don't think the Spurs knee-jerk over a particular series or playoff run, and rather take the long view. Much like when Green couldn't hit anything in the WCF a season ago, and yet they handed him a contract right afterwards.

Personally, I like Ellis, but I don't think he would work in what the Spurs need from that position. They need a distributor, a guy that can play the pick and roll with Tiago and that can "run" the offense, not "be" the offense.

Ideally, I would've preferred to keep Manu and bring another skilled player that can create his own shot and command some attention in the second unit. Belinelli might be that guy, but obviously the jury is still out on that.

[poeticism707]

Well, it isn't irrelevant when we're looking at a contract that was just signed, and looking at where that value might come from.

You might not agree with the Spurs handing that contract to Manu, and that's fine. I particularly don't think the Spurs knee-jerk over a particular series or playoff run, and rather take the long view. Much like when Green couldn't hit anything in the WCF a season ago, and yet they handed him a contract right afterwards.

Personally, I like Ellis, but I don't think he would work in what the Spurs need from that position. They need a distributor, a guy that can play the pick and roll with Tiago and that can "run" the offense, not "be" the offense.

Ideally, I would've preferred to keep Manu and bring another skilled player that can create his own shot and command some attention in the second unit. Belinelli might be that guy, but obviously the jury is still out on that.

If we even saw 70% of reg. season Manu in the playoffs, the Spurs would be champs, and this wouldn't even be a thread.

But in the latter rounds of the playoffs and the finals, when you meet elite defensive teams, Manu becomes MUCH easier to figure out, which is why Miami picked off every cross court Manu pass, which is why the Spurs lost.

Which is why I'd roll the dice on Ellis, even though he isn't half the distributor Manu is, because Manu sucks now against elite defensive teams.

And there are only elite defensive teams in the finals, not the Golden State Warriors.

[ElNono]

If we even saw 70% of reg. season Manu in the playoffs, the Spurs would be champs, and this wouldn't even be a thread.

But in the latter rounds of the playoffs and the finals, when you meet elite defensive teams, Manu becomes MUCH easier to figure out, which is why Miami picked off every cross court Manu pass, which is why the Spurs lost.

Which is why I'd roll the dice on Ellis, even though he isn't half the distributor Manu is, because Manu sucks now against elite defensive teams.

And there are only elite defensive teams in the finals, not the Golden State Warriors.

Well, I disagree that's the sole reason why the Spurs lost. I thought, errors and all, they were good enough to win it all. One bounce or rebound goes our way and this wouldn't even be a thread either.

Again, I like Monta, but I think the biggest issue the Spurs have with that second unit is too many players that don't command enough attention and can't create their own shot (Tiago, Bonner, Blair, Neal, CoJo, etc etc). Manu himself can be up and down on that aspect at this point in his career, so it becomes easier to plan for. Something I brought up during the regular season was the over reliance on offense on the pick and roll, and frankly, that second unit is pretty much all it runs due to the personnel we had. The departures of Blair, and perhaps Neal, and the addition of Pendergraph and Belli (both of which seem to have a mid-range game) will likely change the looks of some of that, and I think it's no coincidence the Spurs went looking for that skillset.

I don't disagree Monta can be useful when you need to rely on heavy ISO situations, but I think what the Spurs would prefer (and this is just my opinion) is a way to make most of the players on that second unit be productive on the offensive end. Something that didn't necessarily happen even during the regular season.

[therealtruth]

Well, I disagree that's the sole reason why the Spurs lost. I thought, errors and all, they were good enough to win it all. One bounce or rebound goes our way and this wouldn't even be a thread either.

Again, I like Monta, but I think the biggest issue the Spurs have with that second unit is too many players that don't command enough attention and can't create their own shot (Tiago, Bonner, Blair, Neal, CoJo, etc etc). Manu himself can be up and down on that aspect at this point in his career, so it becomes easier to plan for. Something I brought up during the regular season was the over reliance on offense on the pick and roll, and frankly, that second unit is pretty much all it runs due to the personnel we had. The departures of Blair, and perhaps Neal, and the addition of Pendergraph and Belli (both of which seem to have a mid-range game) will likely change the looks of some of that, and I think it's no coincidence the Spurs went looking for that skillset.

I don't disagree Monta can be useful when you need to rely on heavy ISO situations, but I think what the Spurs would prefer (and this is just my opinion) is a way to make most of the players on that second unit be productive on the offensive end. Something that didn't necessarily happen even during the regular season.

I actually though isoball worked pretty well in game 5. I think we could have used it more in games 6 and 7. Don't forget Parker helped us take the 5pt lead late in game 6 when he got a rare chance to go against Chalmers. We should have used every opportunity to attack Chalmers, Miller, and Allen defensively. We didn't let the Heat pay enough for playing bad defenders.