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  1. #1
    PELICANS!!! BRHornet45's Avatar
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    NEW ORLEANS -- At some point, we've got to stop asking whether or not what we're seeing from the New Orleans Saints' defense is for real.

    The defense has been the driving force behind all three victories by the unbeaten Saints, including a dominant 31-7 win against the Arizona Cardinals on Sunday. New Orleans has already blown open a two-game lead in the NFC South.

    How much more real does it have to get?

    "It's nothing to get super excited about, other than the fact that we show a lot of promise, and that's what we've got to keep doing," cautioned defensive end Cameron Jordan, who has been the breakout individual player of the bunch with a team-high three sacks so far, including two on Sunday.

    "You always want to have that hungry at ude of just straight grinding and building on each game," Jordan added. "I don't ever want to be like, 'This is the defense that we are.' I just want to keep going and keep getting better."

    After a disastrous defensive performance last season, in which they set the NFL record for yards allowed in a season (7,042), the idea was that the Saints could get back to being playoff contenders if they could just find some way to get their defense back to being a "middle-of-the-pack" unit.

    read more at -

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-orleans-...e-is-the-truth


  2. #2
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    Don't get your hopes up BR. Buddy Ryan Jr. fooled Dallas Cowboy fans last year too. You guys will be exposed by week 6.

  3. #3
    PELICANS!!! BRHornet45's Avatar
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    Don't get your hopes up BR. Buddy Ryan Jr. fooled Dallas Cowboy fans last year too. You guys will be exposed by week 6.
    you forgot one important fact though ......



    we have Drew Brees and you don't.

  4. #4
    Veteran LkrFan's Avatar
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    you forgot one important fact though ......



    we have Drew Brees and you don't.
    Doesn't matter. By week 6 you'll rue signing the guy.

  5. #5
    PELICANS!!! BRHornet45's Avatar
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    yes it does matter you stupid, front running .

    you black? lol Laker "fan" and Cowboy "fan" ... how convenient

  6. #6
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Rob Ryan is overrated. Good teams will be able to exploit his defense. It's not an accident that the man can't hold a job for more than a year or two.

    Lucky for the Saints, outside of the Packers, almost no team in the NFC really has the quarterback to do so.

  7. #7
    on instagram, str8 flexin DUNCANownsKOBE's Avatar
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    Rob Ryan did a good job with the Cowboys given the bag players he had after the injuries.

    I thought he'd need a year to turn the Saints' defense around but it seems like he didn't even need that long.

  8. #8
    ex Hornets78 Pelicans78's Avatar
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    Ryan is doing it with some injuries as well. Kenyon Coleman, Victor Butler, Vilma, Will Smith, Bunkley, and Patrick Robinson are all out for awhile. Coleman, Butler, Smith and Robinson are out for the season. I don't think Smith is a big loss since he would have been a liability at times covering guys out of the OLB spot. Plus alot of the younger guys with more upside are stepping up like Cameron Jordan, John Jenkins, Tyrunn Walker, Glenn Foster, and Akiem Hicks from the d-line and Kenny Vaccaro from the secondary.

    The key so far is the pass rush from the young d-line and OLBs. They're able to get pressure without blitzing too much. Plus Ryan is making alot more in game adjustments compared to Spags and is utilizing the guys to their strengths compared to what Spags did last season. He's been a big upgrade. Also it helps to have Payton back because he makes everyone more accountable whether its on offense or defense as well as the coaching staff.

  9. #9
    ex Hornets78 Pelicans78's Avatar
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    Rob Ryan is overrated. Good teams will be able to exploit his defense. It's not an accident that the man can't hold a job for more than a year or two.

    Lucky for the Saints, outside of the Packers, almost no team in the NFC really has the quarterback to do so.
    He hasn't coached with an elite HC and QB like Payton and Brees. That's a big difference. He was under bad organizations in Oakland and Cleveland plus he had a lot of injuries in Dallas and Garrett and Romo aren't anything special. He's not doing anything exotic with the Saints right now. Basically the front 7 are getting pressure and he mixes in the occasional blitz. He has some good young talent to work with on the d-line plus the secondary is playing solid. I don't think he's been tested much outside of the Falcons game, but he's definitely made a huge difference. Also, to say he's overrated is pretty dumb since no one thinks he's anything special in the first place.
    Last edited by Pelicans78; 09-23-2013 at 08:18 AM.

  10. #10
    We've got a job to do. Darth_Pelican's Avatar
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    The Saints next 3 opponents (vs Miami, at Chicago, at NE) are a combined 9-0. While they should get past Miami at home on Monday night, I'm hoping for a split at Chicago and at NE for a 5-1 start.

  11. #11
    so many game winning drives given up....

  12. #12
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    He hasn't coached with an elite HC and QB like Payton and Brees. That's a big difference. He was under bad organizations in Oakland and Cleveland plus he had a lot of injuries in Dallas and Garrett and Romo aren't anything special. He's not doing anything exotic with the Saints right now. Basically the front 7 are getting pressure and he mixes in the occasional blitz. He has some good young talent to work with on the d-line plus the secondary is playing solid. I don't think he's been tested much outside of the Falcons game, but he's definitely made a huge difference. Also, to say he's overrated is pretty dumb since no one thinks he's anything special in the first place.
    Of course people think he's special. That's why he keeps getting jobs. And he always gets hyped up during broadcasts. More importantly, I've seen his (and Rex's) defenses totally break down in clutch moments. Even in the Tampa game, Freeman managed to drive down the field on them before that missed field goal. That's just the reality. Sure, he could be better with the Saints. But I won't believe that New Orleans has a playoff-caliber defense until they prove it.

  13. #13
    ex Hornets78 Pelicans78's Avatar
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    Of course people think he's special. That's why he keeps getting jobs. And he always gets hyped up during broadcasts. More importantly, I've seen his (and Rex's) defenses totally break down in clutch moments. Even in the Tampa game, Freeman managed to drive down the field on them before that missed field goal. That's just the reality. Sure, he could be better with the Saints. But I won't believe that New Orleans has a playoff-caliber defense until they prove it.
    You're grasping at straws now. The defense kept the Saints in the Tampa game by only allowing 7 total points. The only reasons the Bucs were ahead was due to a Brees pick-six. The offense was terrible that game yet the defense kept them in the game. Even on the last drive they held the Bucs to a long FG attempt giving the offense the chance to win in the end. The defense has bailed them out in all 3 games so far. Besides, the Saints don't need a playoff caliber defense to make a run. They just need an average one. They've won 11-13 games with below average defenses.

  14. #14
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    You're grasping at straws now. The defense kept the Saints in the Tampa game by only allowing 7 total points. The only reasons the Bucs were ahead was due to a Brees pick-six. The offense was terrible that game yet the defense kept them in the game. Even on the last drive they held the Bucs to a long FG attempt giving the offense the chance to win in the end. The defense has bailed them out in all 3 games so far. Besides, the Saints don't need a playoff caliber defense to make a run. They just need an average one. They've won 11-13 games with below average defenses.
    I'm not grasping at straws. I said in clutch moments, his defense breaks down. That's exactly what happened in the Tampa game. That's what happened when he was with Dallas, Cleveland and Oakland. It's what happened with Rex in Baltimore, and it still happens to him in New York. It's just the way it is. The defense looks good but can be picked apart by good quarterbacks (and last-drive Freeman). In the playoffs, that type of defense ends up killing you. If I understand correctly, the champion Saints had a defense that could come up with clutch turnovers to help their offense out. It was pretty much the opposite of the Ryan defense.

    As I said, time will bear it out. We'll see how many clutch defensive stands the Saints will make compared to how many end-of-game drives they give up. Right now, it's 1/1, and that stand came against Melted Ice Ryan.

  15. #15
    ex Hornets78 Pelicans78's Avatar
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    I'm not grasping at straws. I said in clutch moments, his defense breaks down. That's exactly what happened in the Tampa game. That's what happened when he was with Dallas, Cleveland and Oakland. It's what happened with Rex in Baltimore, and it still happens to him in New York. It's just the way it is. The defense looks good but can be picked apart by good quarterbacks (and last-drive Freeman). In the playoffs, that type of defense ends up killing you. If I understand correctly, the champion Saints had a defense that could come up with clutch turnovers to help their offense out. It was pretty much the opposite of the Ryan defense.

    As I said, time will bear it out. We'll see how many clutch defensive stands the Saints will make compared to how many end-of-game drives they give up. Right now, it's 1/1, and that stand came against Melted Ice Ryan.
    Well the same coordinator who's turnover machine defense helped the Saints win the Super Bowl also coordinated a defense that choked in back-to-back playoff games at Seattle and San Francisco. Its all about talent. The reason the 2009 defense created so many more turnovers was due to having playmakers in the secondary like Tracy Porter, Darren Sharper and Jabari Greer. Scheme had little to do with it. The reason why this defense is playing so much better is due to the front four generating pass rush. Plus, the defense has already generated 6 turnovers in the first 3 games. And one bad defensive series isn't going to take away what was a strong overall performance at Tampa. The defense kept the offense in the game to help them win late.

  16. #16
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Well the same coordinator who's turnover machine defense helped the Saints win the Super Bowl also coordinated a defense that choked in back-to-back playoff games at Seattle and San Francisco. Its all about talent. The reason the 2009 defense created so many more turnovers was due to having playmakers in the secondary like Tracy Porter, Darren Sharper and Jabari Greer. Scheme had little to do with it. The reason why this defense is playing so much better is due to the front four generating pass rush. Plus, the defense has already generated 6 turnovers in the first 3 games. And one bad defensive series isn't going to take away what was a strong overall performance at Tampa. The defense kept the offense in the game to help them win late.
    Of course it can. It didn't in this case because Lindell missed, but that's incidental. It's like saying that a quarterback who puts up 400 yards and three touchdowns doesn't deserve criticism if he throws a pick-six to end the game. Being anti-clutch is an issue which can get overlooked in the regular season but often comes back to bite you in the playoffs.

    Now, I'm not saying that having Brees isn't going to prevent Ryan from being in as many clutch situations and thusly raise the overall effectiveness of his defense. But when the chips are down, it's very likely that the Saints are going to have to win close games against good offenses in the post-season.

  17. #17
    ex Hornets78 Pelicans78's Avatar
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    Of course it can. It didn't in this case because Lindell missed, but that's incidental. It's like saying that a quarterback who puts up 400 yards and three touchdowns doesn't deserve criticism if he throws a pick-six to end the game. Being anti-clutch is an issue which can get overlooked in the regular season but often comes back to bite you in the playoffs.

    Now, I'm not saying that having Brees isn't going to prevent Ryan from being in as many clutch situations and thusly raise the overall effectiveness of his defense. But when the chips are down, it's very likely that the Saints are going to have to win close games against good offenses in the post-season.
    Still, the Saints personnel on defense isn't that great. They have some young guys with upside, but talent isn't on par with a San Francisco or Seattle, especially in the secondary which is where late defensive stands are key. He's obviously been a big upgrade over Spags who wasn't flexible at all and didn't adjust his scheme to the talent he had. You're still grasping at straws in your argument about the Tampa game.

  18. #18
    Veteran pawe's Avatar
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    All the other team's defense will look elite against the Cards and their Oline anyway.

  19. #19
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Still, the Saints personnel on defense isn't that great. They have some young guys with upside, but talent isn't on par with a San Francisco or Seattle, especially in the secondary which is where late defensive stands are key. He's obviously been a big upgrade over Spags who wasn't flexible at all and didn't adjust his scheme to the talent he had. You're still grasping at straws in your argument about the Tampa game.
    It was weird to me that Spagnola failed as spectacularly as he did. He really seemed to have something going in New York. He's an advisor to Harbaugh in Baltimore right now, but I don't really know if he does anything.

    Anyway, I don't get how the Tampa game is grasping at straws. Freeman looked bad the whole game (perhaps more than the Saints defense looked good), but when he needed a final drive to put the game way, he moved down the field with relative ease. Of course, Freeman is actually a very good quarterback in the clutch, but the point remains that Ryan has a history of letting teams beat his defense at the last minute. Freeman did it to him in 2010 as well.

    EDIT: Actually, 2010 was a bad year for Ryan in general, as his defense gave up four end-of-game drives.
    Last edited by Chinook; 09-23-2013 at 11:03 AM.

  20. #20
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    Chinook, you really need to let go of Freeman, tbh. He looked awful for much of the game, the season, and his career

  21. #21
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    Chinook, you really need to let go of Freeman, tbh. He looked awful for much of the game, the season, and his career
    I didn't credit Freeman. In fact, I said he sucked in that game, and the fact that he moved down the field easily on the Saints at the end of that game is indicative of the Saints defense looking bad in the clutch.

    Freeman looked bad the whole game (perhaps more than the Saints defense looked good), but when he needed a final drive to put the game way, he moved down the field with relative ease.
    Sure, you can say I support(ed) Freeman more than most, but this isn't really the thread to do it.

  22. #22
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    When he's the one example you bring in, then talk about how he's a very good quarterback in the clutch, it just seems like you are trying to find a way to make him sound good where you can

  23. #23
    Machacarredes Chinook's Avatar
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    When he's the one example you bring in, then talk about how he's a very good quarterback in the clutch, it just seems like you are trying to find a way to make him sound good where you can
    He's not the only example I can bring up. He's the relevant one, since that game actually happened this season. Matt Cassell, David Garrard and Mark Sanchez were the other 2010 quarterbacks who led end-of-game drives against the Browns. Being in that company isn't really a compliment.

  24. #24
    ex Hornets78 Pelicans78's Avatar
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    I wasn't a huge fan of the Ryan hire since I was afraid he was going to be alot like Gregg Williams, but I can't complain about the results at this time. I'm hoping he doesn't do something stupid in the future like blitz and play man-to-man with 40 seconds left when the other team needs 70 yards for a TD, especially in a playoff game.

  25. #25
    Savvy Veteran spurraider21's Avatar
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    I can agree that Ryan is a flop. Believe me

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