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  1. #51
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    There are bad parts of the law. Health Insurance exchanges are certainly not one of them. Not sure why anyone would want this to fail.
    Cruz and other tea baggers want the entire ACA to fail, they want it defunded since they don't have the votes to repeal it

  2. #52
    Veteran EVAY's Avatar
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    Only something like 30 of the 232 House Republicans are "tea baggers", so I don't know why people think they have so much power.


    Also, the GOP did TRY to add a bunch of admendments to ACA, but they weren't so successful.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...deas-of-Democ/


    Ironically, ONE of the amendments that would require members of congress to enroll in any govt-run plan that was created, was shot down by Dems.
    Today's USA Today has an article (or maybe it was CNN, I forget) that says that 133 House Republicans would support a straight-up vote on the budget and would pass it. That means to me that the Tea Party members have an outsized impact on the House due in part to their control over Boehner. Moreover, the same number was said to have voted against the piece-meal funding that the Tea Partiers were trying to advance in order to get only the parts of the Government funded that they approve of or are afraid to be seen as blocking. That again says that the majority of the Republicans in the House are at least sane enough to try to to govern rather than obstruct.

    The fact that we are still at an impasse tells me though that the Tea Party's outsized influence remains. So many other Republicans (including the Speaker) would be willing to pass a clean bill and let the government function, but for their fear that the Tea Party will run against them in their next primary. So, there are the Tea Partiers and then there are the Republicans who are afraid of the Tea Party. Same difference in practical terms.

  3. #53
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    "33 House Republicans would support a straight-up vote on the budget and would pass it. "

    I've seen the estimate as high as 175.

    But they are intimidated about being primaried by the VRWC/Kock Bros if they vote a clean CR. and Boner is worried about losing his Speaker job (replaced by Issa or Ryan?)



  4. #54
    Esse quam videri ploto's Avatar
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    Health Insurance exchanges are certainly not one of them. Not sure why anyone would want this to fail.
    Guess these people have never had a job that does not provide health insurance and wished they could be a part of some group - any group! I just wish there was a public option in the exchanges.

  5. #55
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    I just wish there was a public option in the exchanges.

  6. #56
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    "I just wish there was a public option in the exchanges."

    Ploto, I'd like you to meet Harry and Louise.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt31nhleeCg

    10Ms of victims of for-profit insurance are hoping Potter is right:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wendel...b_4016306.html









  7. #57
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    Expensive for a healthy 26 yr old female. I told her to wait until she gets sick to get it.
    No kidding.

    I wonder what her penalty would be for not buying it?

  8. #58
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    $95 or 1% of earned income?

  9. #59
    Veteran EVAY's Avatar
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    $95 or 1% of earned income?
    Whichever is less, right?

  10. #60
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    Whichever is less, right?
    Believe so. Doesn't seem like much of a penalty of at all. If I was young and strapped for cash (like most young Americans are) I'd take the penalty and spend the rest of my $300 a month on hookers and blow.

  11. #61
    Veteran EVAY's Avatar
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    Believe so. Doesn't seem like much of a penalty of at all. If I was young and strapped for cash (like most young Americans are) I'd take the penalty and spend the rest of my $300 a month on hookers and blow.
    Wel, I wouldn't blame you, and I suspect that a lot of folks will do just that. At least until they get hit with something.

    I have lived through an awful lot of these reformations in health care, and I remember one of the first ones coming as my employer made everyone in the company go into an HMO. My internist at the time politely declined to do any such thing so I had to change doctors. The company initiated the change because the AIDS epidemic was really getting going and the company was self-insured, so the premiums were going through the roof.

    Then when I turned 65 (yeah I am really really really old) I was stunned to learn that my retirement health insurance through my employer (for which we have been paying $600 per month for just us two) would only check in AFTER Medicare payments. It pissed me off because I never applied for Social Security Payments, so I couldn't figure why I had to go on Medicare, but there it is.

    Now I'm waiting for my current internist to give up on me because of this new law. But I survived the last time it happened in the name of capitalism; I suspect I will survive it this time in the name of the ACA.

    Lots of these things are not worth the sound and the fury that accompany them.

  12. #62
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    If there isn't already, there will be some way to prevent gaming the system by paying the penalty unitl one's medical bills push them to buy insurance when they need it.

    Another way to game the system is the above, buy insurance one or two years, become healthy, then go back to paying the penalty.

    The above is solved by increasing the penalty to what a person's insurance premium would be.

  13. #63
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Whichever is less, right?
    Nope, whatever is higher.

  14. #64
    The D.R.A. Drachen's Avatar
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    When I was selling plans over 10 years ago that wasn't an outrageous monthly cost for a 26 year old female at all. I don't think it is now unless premiums have dropped. And well, thats pretty much impossible.

    I sold defined benefit plans in 2006 and a single female attar age would have cost 120ish so 135 for these type of plans is pretty good.

  15. #65
    Believe. AntiChrist's Avatar
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    lol



  16. #66
    Believe. AntiChrist's Avatar
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    Media apparently able to find only one person who signed up for Obamacare exchanges


    http://washingtonexaminer.com/media-...rticle/2536770

  17. #67
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    Expensive for a healthy 26 yr old female. I told her to wait until she gets sick to get it.
    26 year old female on my Pre-ACA rate table (the insurance I provide my employees) was $248.87/month.

  18. #68
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    I'll follow up by providing this for fodder: we got our renewal notice, premiums going up 8.99% for our plan (which is a pretty good plan. Probably would rank "Gold" by ACA ranking standards). Pretty much in line with the increases I've seen since 2009.

  19. #69
    Boring = 4 Rings SA210's Avatar
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    Minnesota Obamacare exchange leaks private information of 2,400 people

    http://benswann.com/minnesota-obamac...f-2400-people/

    Less than 24 hours after the Obamacare exchanges opened on October 1 – and indeed before the exchange database even went live – the first reported breach of privacy occurred. An employee of MNsure, Minnesota’s Obamacare exchange, accidentally sent an unencrypted email to the wrong person. The email contained the private information of over two thousand people, and went to a local insurance broker.

    The broker, Jim Koester, deleted the information, and later reported it, but the incident was a striking illustration of the insecurity of the Obamacare system. The data included names, addresses and Social Security numbers, as well as other information. As Koester told the Minnesota Star Tribune, “What if this had fallen into the wrong hands? It’s scary. If this is happening now, how can clients of MNsure be confident that their data is safe?”

    Though the majority of Americans were ideologically skeptical of Obamacare when it was initially passed, it has been developments in the past few months which have illustrated practical problems with the program’s implementation. Members of Congress and experts have been concerned for weeks about database integrity and design flaws, as well as the selection of employees trusted with the data.

    The incident also compounds concerns Obamacare critics have expressed since the beginning about the program’s data mining. As long as it’s stored at a state level, doctors are encouraged to ask very private information about individuals. The data does not only include identifiers such as name, address and SSN, but also income, citizenship status, tax information, family size, citizenship, health plan enrollment, incarceration status and even gun ownership.

    Some of this data cannot be stored at the federal level, but it can be stored at the state level and used by the federal government at any time. The fact that the system, called the Hub, is run by thousands of unvetted, low level federal employees, who can easily access it for their own gain or spread it to others unintentionally, only adds to that concern. The recent NSA and IRS scandals have shown how willing the government is to abuse its possession of such information, and Obamacare has now revealed how insecure this possession is.

    This leak – and the similar ones which will inevitably follow – also comes at a time in which this data can impact people’s lives most strongly. Not only can leaks lead to iden y theft, they can lead to the publishing of information which leads to simple conflict which would not otherwise happen. In 2009, for instance, Wikileaks – which relies almost exclusively on leaks by government employees – published the membership list of the controversial British National Party, which remains online today and has led to firings.

    Obamacare’s collection and storing of data on private citizens is wrong, but the fact that it is handled with such irresponsibility is unconscionable. The October 1 MNsure leak was a perfect illustration of this problem, and a situation which will likely be repeated with less benign results. As Democrats refuse to make any compromise whatsoever on Obamacare, it’s worthwhile to note the severe problems, both ideological and practical, of the system.

    Benn Swann warned the public on this risk. See article here. Unfortunately the possibility of American’s personal data being breached in this massive Government program has now become a reality.

  20. #70
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    ^ If true, that employee should be jailed. There are strict regulations on transfer of patient information (HIPPA).

    The concern over government collecting the data as part of this program is a bit silly, since the data is no different than what the IRS already collects (and the IRS is part of the program). If anything, it's stupid since it's redundant.

  21. #71
    Believe. AntiChrist's Avatar
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    Looks like they found someone who was able to sign up. HuffPo is pretty excited about it.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/1...n_4037136.html


    Turns out, he will pay $175/month, about 18% of his $11,500 annual salary. Oh, and he's an Organizing for Action volunteer -- lol. Sucess story.

  22. #72
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    how ACA does in the first few weeks and months is not the measure, but in the first years.

    google the disastrous start and history of THE REPUGS' unfunded corporate welfare called Medicare Part D and Medicare Advantage to see how many YEARS it took for seniors to get into them.

  23. #73
    Believe. AntiChrist's Avatar
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    how ACA does in the first few weeks and months is not the measure, but in the first years.

    google the disastrous start and history of THE REPUGS' unfunded corporate welfare called Medicare Part D and Medicare Advantage to see how many YEARS it took for seniors to get into them.

    Better hope young, healthy people get signed up in high numbers, or this "crowning achievement" will go into a death spiral. ACA will implode if a lot of people choose to wait until they are sick to sign up.

  24. #74
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    Better hope young, healthy people get signed up in high numbers, or this "crowning achievement" will go into a death spiral. ACA will implode if a lot of people choose to wait until they are sick to sign up.
    just read an article about the 50+ year old guy who has never had health insurance, very trim, fit, lots of exercise, great diet. Now he has thyroid cancer and is loving.

    ACA is the best that could done to mollify the greedy bas s of the health care industry (and they're already gaming the system, not by denying health insurance, but by denying membership in their "network" cartels to organizations who treat the poor and sick), but it's a lot worse than mandatory, income-docked universal health insurance like non-Randian, non-dog-eat-dog industrial countries have.

  25. #75
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    Last edited by boutons_deux; 10-04-2013 at 11:14 AM.

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