Lakers: :wow MVPau

[Brazil]

he would have been a great spurs... oh well...

[ambchang]

Even in TOSB status, MVPau still appreciated around the league.

http://www.nba.com/news/features/joh...ml#predictions

Which one player acquisition will make the biggest impact?
1. LeBron James, Cleveland -- 96.3%
2. Pau Gasol, Chicago -- 3.7%
Last year: Dwight Howard -- 86.2%

What was the most underrated player acquisition?
1. Tyson Chandler, Dallas -- 17.9%
2. Omer Asik, New Orleans -- 14.3%
Spencer Hawes, L.A. Clippers -- 14.3%
4. Pau Gasol, Chicago -- 7.1%
Paul Pierce, Washington -- 7.1%
Also receiving votes: Arron Afflalo, Denver; Bojan Bogdanovic, Brooklyn; Channing Frye, Orlando; James Johnson, Toronto; Shawn Marion, Cleveland; Nikola Mirotic, Chicago; Jameer Nelson, Dallas; Lance Stephenson, Charlotte; Andrew Wiggins, Minnesota; Marvin Williams, Charlotte; Thaddeus Young, Minnesota
Last year: Jrue Holiday, Andrei Kirilenko, Luis Scola -- 10.0%

[Killakobe81]

I like Pau in the Chi ... I wish him well. Heck this Lakers team could use him desperately ...

But ... LOL polls.
Last year: Dwight Howard 86%, smh quality poll will hold up under scrutiny ...

[ambchang]

I like Pau in the Chi ... I wish him well. Heck this Lakers team could use him desperately ...

But ... LOL polls.
Last year: Dwight Howard 86%, smh quality poll will hold up under scrutiny ...

Not that bad, because last year Howard WAS the biggest acquisition. Who else would have taken that spot instead, even with the benefit of hindsight?

[Killakobe81]

Not that bad, because last year Howard WAS the biggest acquisition. Who else would have taken that spot instead, even with the benefit of hindsight?

Biggest impact? they lost in the first round with him and lost in the first round the year before. so if we talk about the actual question was who had/would have the biggest impact. It was a great pickup for Rox even my Dwight hate cannot deny that. But in the big scheme they were non contenders which I said from day one. And they STILL are non contenders. a year later.

Still a ty poll. YEs MVpau makes their offense better. But Gibson has that aggression we often wish Pau had. if we could put Taj's fight in Pau we would have ... Prime Tim Duncan Tbh ... and there will be times they should play Gibson over Pau. But even Pau/Gibson is not a bad front-court. IF TT is such a brilliant coach he better maximize the talent they have.

[djohn2oo8]

Biggest impact? they lost in the first round with him and lost in the first round the year before. so if we talk about the actual question was who had/would have the biggest impact. It was a great pickup for Rox even my Dwight hate cannot deny that. But in the big scheme they were non contenders which I said from day one. And they STILL are non contenders. a year later.

Still a ty poll. YEs MVpau makes their offense better. But Gibson has that aggression we often wish Pau had. if we could put Taj's fight in Pau we would have ... Prime Tim Duncan Tbh ... and there will be times they should play Gibson over Pau. But even Pau/Gibson is not a bad front-court. IF TT is such a brilliant coach he better maximize the talent they have.

They won the most games in franchise history last year. That was his impact. They are not non contenders because of talent. It's because of coaching.

[ambchang]

Biggest impact? they lost in the first round with him and lost in the first round the year before. so if we talk about the actual question was who had/would have the biggest impact. It was a great pickup for Rox even my Dwight hate cannot deny that. But in the big scheme they were non contenders which I said from day one. And they STILL are non contenders. a year later.

Still a ty poll. YEs MVpau makes their offense better. But Gibson has that aggression we often wish Pau had. if we could put Taj's fight in Pau we would have ... Prime Tim Duncan Tbh ... and there will be times they should play Gibson over Pau. But even Pau/Gibson is not a bad front-court. IF TT is such a brilliant coach he better maximize the talent they have.

So if not dwight, who else?

As for MVPau tough to have any fight when you walk on egg s s all day worrying about getting blamed.

[Killakobe81]

So if not dwight, who else?

As for MVPau tough to have any fight when you walk on egg s s all day worrying about getting blamed.

We all know Pau is highly skilled. One of the most skilled bigs of his era in regards to passing and true post play. Your defense of his "lack of dog" makes no sense. If he played with more "verve" he wouldnt need to walk on eggs s. Even in his absolute prime best, Pau could have used more fight in him. IF Pau, was aggressive in his prime he would have been an even greater player for the Spanish national team and they would not have choked some international tournaments.

I dont blame Pau for Laker losses for me that is on the head coach and the best player since they get the most credit. Pau may have disappeared in 2011 versus the Mavs (for example)...but Kobe was not elite either ,,, so for me RC outcoaching PJ and Dirk outplaying Kobe are the main reasons (also hot Mavs shooting) we lost.

Pau deserves his jersey hanging at Staples ...but dont act as though his lack of aggression (at times) was not a problem in Memphis and L.A. in fact playing with Noah, Gibson for TT is probably the best thing for him. dont get me wrong the coaches could have done a better job featuring him more ...but a more aggressive player (and Kobe has said this to Pau and in media) wouldnt wait for that, they would demand the rock.

[Killakobe81]

They won the most games in franchise history last year. That was his impact. They are not non contenders because of talent. It's because of coaching.

Easy to blame McHale for everything. Just like Laker fans do with Jimbo. Dwight was amazing in the playoffs and pretty good in the season. Like i said last year and will say again this year AS CURRENTLY CONSTRUCTED the Rox are NOT CONTENDERS. I said it last year and you said I was blinded by Dwight hate. Even DPG jumped on your side. Yes, Kevin is part of the problem, he sucks. But RC and Pop aint winning with that team either. Im guessing you dont lose to the Blazers with better coaching but you still werent beating the spurs, clips OKC.

I think right now Spurs, Clips, healthy OKC Mavs and Warriors are all better teams than Rox just like last year. Rox are on par with Grizz, Blazers, Suns. One of those teams is missing the playoffs I think you guys make it. but now you facing Mavs/Warriors at best or Spurs Clips at worst. you guys are on tap for another first round loss. But after a couple meaningless regular seasons wins vs spurs you and the chicken shot portion of the spur crew will argue that you have a shot ... You don't. It could be worse and you could miss the playoffs like my Lakeshow. And you probably beat our ass a few times, so you have that.

[djohn2oo8]

Easy to blame McHale for everything. Just like Laker fans do with Jimbo. Dwight was amazing in the playoffs and pretty good in the season. Like i said last year and will say again this year AS CURRENTLY CONSTRUCTED the Rox are NOT CONTENDERS. I said it last year and you said I was blinded by Dwight hate. Even DPG jumped on your side. Yes, Kevin is part of the problem, he sucks. But RC and Pop aint winning with that team either. Im guessing you dont lose to the Blazers with better coaching but you still werent beating the spurs, clips OKC.

I think right now Spurs, Clips, healthy OKC Mavs and Warriors are all better teams than Rox just like last year. Rox are on par with Grizz, Blazers, Suns. One of those teams is missing the playoffs I think you guys make it. but now you facing Mavs/Warriors at best or Spurs Clips at worst. you guys are on tap for another first round loss. But after a win vs spurs you and the chicken shot portion of the spur crew will argue that you have a shot. You don't. It could be worse and you could miss the playoffs like my Lakeshow.

With better coaching there is no telling how far they could go. They don't necessarily need to keep adding, they need to develop players like Terrance Jones. McHale isn't just bad, he is the worst. Playoffs are about adjustments. Shaking his head violently at every bad play like he has a terrible case of lice is not coaching. Also, it is on record his entire coaching staff were hyperventalating in 4th quarters of those games. No bull .

[Killakobe81]

With better coaching there is no telling how far they could go. They don't necessarily need to keep adding, they need to develop players like Terrance Jones. McHale isn't just bad, he is the worst. Playoffs are about adjustments. Shaking his head violently at every bad play like he has a terrible case of lice is not coaching. Also, it is on record his entire coaching staff were hyperventalating in 4th quarters of those games. No bull .

I like Jone's potential. and though I think Morey outthinks himself (same as Cuban) as most analytics guys do. He has drafted great tradeable assets. He has traded for and landed a big star, tough to blame Morey at all tbh. I like Parsons but do think he was overpaid at time of deal. Now, the cap goes up and maybe it wasnt so bad. But at the time I thought Mnorey was wise not to match. Ariza is a better defender has been on a le team and you NEED that level of defense in your starting lineup ... he and Beverly along with dwight give you three strong defenders and Pat Beverly even looks a bit better on offense. Even if you lose in the first round you wont go down easy. Even if you take step back, (record wise) I actually see improvement from Pat, and Harden as positives for building a real contender going forward, if Harden plays defense like he did for Coach K at times for team USA.

And I said Kevin sucks. It's a bit surprising the vet staff Kevin had (wasnt Sampson on your staff) would also choke ...it's too bad Dwight and SVG already had a bad relationship I think he would have been the perfect fit for your team. Still wouldnt win le but a WCF would be possible if things broke right.

[djohn2oo8]

Yeah. However if they were to add any pieces, it should be a starting PF, just someone who can rebound and hit a jumpshot. And some scoring off the bench. Need a backup PG. Also, Troy Daniels I like alot.

[Killakobe81]

Yeah. However if they were to add any pieces, it should be a starting PF, just someone who can rebound and hit a jumpshot. And some scoring off the bench. Need a backup PG. Also, Troy Daniels I like alot.

And I dont give my assessment to be cruel. Yes I hate conmanD12 ...but just being honest. I have family in Houston, I make this argument all the time. They say it's cuz I hate Dwight or what about your Lakers. Neither have anything to do with my thoughts. I am back coaching (assistant) academy/elite teams here Dallas.

It has changed my perspective a bit. Im just giving b-ball takes. Winning a le is hard. Look how great Harden looked for USA when he was not the #1 or having to create all the offense? Would Bosh as your #3 made you a le contender? Probably. But I still think you guys will be legit contenders and finals favorites if you can place Dwight and Beard as #2's and #3's. I know that is tough and that means you need Durant, Blake or some other elite star ...but if we talking les that is what is needed. So getting Bosh would have given false hope and got you closer but probably not a le.

[ambchang]

We all know Pau is highly skilled. One of the most skilled bigs of his era in regards to passing and true post play. Your defense of his "lack of dog" makes no sense. If he played with more "verve" he wouldnt need to walk on eggs s. Even in his absolute prime best, Pau could have used more fight in him. IF Pau, was aggressive in his prime he would have been an even greater player for the Spanish national team and they would not have choked some international tournaments.

I dont blame Pau for Laker losses for me that is on the head coach and the best player since they get the most credit. Pau may have disappeared in 2011 versus the Mavs (for example)...but Kobe was not elite either ,,, so for me RC outcoaching PJ and Dirk outplaying Kobe are the main reasons (also hot Mavs shooting) we lost.

Pau deserves his jersey hanging at Staples ...but dont act as though his lack of aggression (at times) was not a problem in Memphis and L.A. in fact playing with Noah, Gibson for TT is probably the best thing for him. dont get me wrong the coaches could have done a better job featuring him more ...but a more aggressive player (and Kobe has said this to Pau and in media) wouldnt wait for that, they would demand the rock.

Memphis had their best years with MVPau and a bunch of scrubs until their recent version, which included fat Gasol, Randolph and a bunch of top notch perimeter defenders on the team. MVPau single handedly brought respectability to that franchise after years and years of Sterling-Clippers level of doormattedness.

The Spanish National team is by far the BEST Spanish national team ever, thanks to MVPau. In fact, even in his TOSB stage, he did great in the tournament this year.

His lack of aggression can have a direct line to Kobe continuously throwing unfounded barbs at him through the media to a) make his own contributions seem more important in the winning years, and b) pass the blame to MVPau when the Lakers were under performing.

MVPau was pushed out of the lane in the Dallas series to make room for Bynumite, and willingly sacrificed his own game for the greater good of the team. Too bad Kobe still managed to shoot the Mavs out of the series, not to mention a couple of famous chokes. MVPau is such a great team player.

[Killakobe81]

Memphis had their best years with MVPau and a bunch of scrubs until their recent version, which included fat Gasol, Randolph and a bunch of top notch perimeter defenders on the team. MVPau single handedly brought respectability to that franchise after years and years of Sterling-Clippers level of doormattedness.

The Spanish National team is by far the BEST Spanish national team ever, thanks to MVPau. In fact, even in his TOSB stage, he did great in the tournament this year.

His lack of aggression can have a direct line to Kobe continuously throwing unfounded barbs at him through the media to a) make his own contributions seem more important in the winning years, and b) pass the blame to MVPau when the Lakers were under performing.

MVPau was pushed out of the lane in the Dallas series to make room for Bynumite, and willingly sacrificed his own game for the greater good of the team. Too bad Kobe still managed to shoot the Mavs out of the series, not to mention a couple of famous chokes. MVPau is such a great team player.

You are so full of . No one is denying Pau's impact on the Lakers, Memphis or Spanish National team. It is just a true fact that as great a team-mate as he is, sometimes he defers or avoids physicality too much. You blame Kobe and or his cult for why he was.is passive why no single playoff win (pre Kobe)? I do hope the bulls do well but he is playing with a very unselfish team that definitely needs his post play. Let's see how it shakes out when things get tough inside.

Again I love Pau's game. I like Kobe too but has ty shot selection. Pau could use more aggressiveness. Saying that is not a slam on Pau. it's an honest critique of his game. Kobe should eliminate some of the tough shots he takes Pau should "force things a bit more. Would rather see Pau do that then take his passive aggressive mode he takes at times. in fact, even though Pau is better than Marc ...if he had his brother's temperament he would be better served.

You seem to be in love with Pau and must defend at every turn. Again, take Kobe out of it ... do you think Pau would not benefit from a bit more fire?

BTW, my older son Plays like Pau. A tall slender pass first big, he doesnt play with enough force. good passer. Not as great a shooter or post player like Pau, but his coach told him after his last game he needs to be more aggressive. It's a bad trait (passive) to have no matter how skilled you are. And I wonder if by raising him in suburbs of Stone Oak (SA) and Frisco (DFW) is part of the problem. Like it or not the inner city kids play with much more force. In fact the higher your skill level, you hurt your team by not utilizing that skill because you lack aggression. My son is also a great team-mate like Pau. I just wish he had more fight. But hey I did have him watch Pau's footwork passing, and how he does a great job of keeping the ball high, when pass shoots or rebounds. Just a great fundamental player A TRUE TREAT TO WATCH when attacking. But he needs a Kobe/noah /gibson at his side because he lacks "force". Phil used to remind him of that ALL the time ...

[Clipper Nation]

at Killa trying to spin MVPau being a good teammate as MVPau being "passive"

[Killakobe81]

CN, about to drop some ty take, Kobe bomb, MVpau troll job or suck off Lebron Amb or all the above ...

[Killakobe81]

Ha, he beat my reply ...^

[ambchang]

You are so full of . No one is denying Pau's impact on the Lakers, Memphis or Spanish National team. It is just a true fact that as great a team-mate as he is, sometimes he defers or avoids physicality too much. You blame Kobe and or his cult for why he was.is passive why no single playoff win (pre Kobe)? I do hope the bulls do well but he is playing with a very unselfish team that definitely needs his post play. Let's see how it shakes out when things get tough inside.

I am not saying MVPau is the second coming of Maurice Lucas, but the dude played some pretty rough games in his days, and passed with flying colours. His game is a finesse game, but it's not a soft game, he didn't assert himself at all time because he was tired of all that soft talk by uneducated Kobestans and the media though (that's my theory). He played hard in Memphis, in the first few years in LA, last year with Kobe out, and with the Spanish National team, but he clearly was sulking and in the "I don't care" mode during 2010 to 2013.

And blaming him not playing hard causing the Griz to not win a single game? Are you kidding me? How about having Mike Miller and Shane Battier as his best teammates in the ultra tough Western Conference? You know, the same conference where Kobe couldn't even make the playoffs with Caron Butler and Lamar Odom, or make it out of first round with Odom, Bynum and Phil Jackson?

Again I love Pau's game. I like Kobe too but has ty shot selection. Pau could use more aggressiveness. Saying that is not a slam on Pau. it's an honest critique of his game. Kobe should eliminate some of the tough shots he takes Pau should "force things a bit more. Would rather see Pau do that then take his passive aggressive mode he takes at times. in fact, even though Pau is better than Marc ...if he had his brother's temperament he would be better served.

He wouldn't, because every time he takes a shot, it's a shot away from Kobe, and Kobe will tell him to put his big boys pants on and start passing him the ball so that he can go after Jordan's scoring record.

You seem to be in love with Pau and must defend at every turn. Again, take Kobe out of it ... do you think Pau would not benefit from a bit more fire?

Everyone would benefit with more fire. You can even say that for Kobe. It's not like there is a maximum level for fire.

BTW, my older son Plays like Pau. A tall slender pass first big, he doesnt play with enough force. good passer. Not a great shooter or post player like Pau, but his coach told him after his last game he needs to be more aggressive. It's a bad trait (passive) to have no matter how skilled you are. And I wonder if by raising him in suburbs of Stone Oak (SA) and Frisco (DFW) is part of the problem. Like it or not the inner city kids play with much more force. In fact the higher your skill level, you hurt your team by not utilizing that skill because you lack aggression. My son is also a great team-mate like Pau. I just wish he had more fight. But hey I did have him watch Pau's footwork passing, and how he does a great job of keeping the ball high, when pass shoots or rebounds. Just a great fundamental player A TRUE TREAT TO WATCH when attacking. But he needs a Kobe/noah /gibson at his side because he lacks "force". Phil used to remind him of that ALL the time ...

Passing the ball doesn't mean passive. Walton, Shaq, and Duncan are some of the best passing big men the league has ever seen, but they will never be seen as passive. Passiveness usually rears its ugly head on defense, and only for staying out of the paint area after a couple of shoves.

[Killakobe81]

I am not saying MVPau is the second coming of Maurice Lucas, but the dude played some pretty rough games in his days, and passed with flying colours. His game is a finesse game, but it's not a soft game, he didn't assert himself at all time because he was tired of all that soft talk by uneducated Kobestans and the media though (that's my theory). He played hard in Memphis, in the first few years in LA, last year with Kobe out, and with the Spanish National team, but he clearly was sulking and in the "I don't care" mode during 2010 to 2013.

And blaming him not playing hard causing the Griz to not win a single game? Are you kidding me? How about having Mike Miller and Shane Battier as his best teammates in the ultra tough Western Conference? You know, the same conference where Kobe couldn't even make the playoffs with Caron Butler and Lamar Odom, or make it out of first round with Odom, Bynum and Phil Jackson?



He wouldn't, because every time he takes a shot, it's a shot away from Kobe, and Kobe will tell him to put his big boys pants on and start passing him the ball so that he can go after Jordan's scoring record.



Everyone would benefit with more fire. You can even say that for Kobe. It's not like there is a maximum level for fire.



Passing the ball doesn't mean passive. Walton, Shaq, and Duncan are some of the best passing big men the league has ever seen, but they will never be seen as passive. Passiveness usually rears its ugly head on defense, and only for staying out of the paint area after a couple of shoves.

1. Asked you take Kobe out, but of course for you that's not possible.
2. Who cares what Kobe wants/thinks? We are talking about Pau. Part of being a great team-mate is demanding the ball when you have an advantage.
3. Pau was great in some tough games 2010 Game 7 is a great example, but part of that was bynum occupying (and taking out Perk). You say he sacrficed to allow Bynum in the paint without bynum's and Artest's force we dont win that year. Despite the skill of Kobe/Pau. But he also lacked force for Memphis, Lakers and the spanish team. I already posted some great examples of this I dont want to bash Pau here so if you need it you can find them easy. There are some major international tournaments that spain was favored and lost Pau was big reason.
4. Of course there is no maximum but if you cannot see that as a fault in Pau's game dont knwo what to tell you. Shaq's lack of dedication to fitness and craft (plus FT's) was his. Magic could not defend quick PG's. Kobe's bad shot selection. Worth kept the ball too low when spinning middle and got stripped a lot. Kareem would sometimes fail to block out his big part of why he struggled with Moses and Hakeem at times. All great Lakers all have faults. You keep making excuses for him being passive but that is the world you live in so I will let that go.
5. Again being passive on offense is very real and tangible. Kobe in game 7 vs. PHX. Pau in 2008. chris Paul game 7 vs. Spurs. Lebron in 2010 vs. Celts all passive imho.

[ambchang]

1. Asked you take Kobe out, but of course for you that's not possible.

Fine subs ute Kobe for Tim Duncan. Point still stands.

2. Who cares what Kobe wants/thinks? We are talking about Pau. Part of being a great team-mate is demanding the ball when you have an advantage.

Of course he does, otherwise he will be exiled to some other teams. Everybody wants to play in LA. Why would he undermine his chances of staying on the team? You think he wants to be another one of the victims and be thrown under the bus?

3. Pau was great in some tough games 2010 Game 7 is a great example, but part of that was bynum occupying (and taking out Perk). You say he sacrficed to allow Bynum in the paint without bynum's and Artest's force we dont win that year. Despite the skill of Kobe/Pau. But he also lacked force for Memphis, Lakers and the spanish team. I already posted some great examples of this I dont want to bash Pau here so if you need it you can find them easy. There are some major international tournaments that spain was favored and lost Pau was big reason.

There are many cases the Lakers were favoured and lost, does that mean Kobe lacks fire? Makes no sense.

4. Of course there is no maximum but if you cannot see that as a fault in Pau's game dont knwo what to tell you. Shaq's lack of dedication to fitness and craft (plus FT's) was his. Magic could not defend quick PG's. Kobe's bad shot selection. Worth kept the ball too low when spinning middle and got stripped a lot. Kareem would sometimes fail to block out his big part of why he struggled with Moses and Hakeem at times. All great Lakers all have faults. You keep making excuses for him being passive but that is the world you live in so I will let that go.

I am saying his passiveness is a direct result of being afraid to be thrown under the bus. I am not saying his passiveness is not an issue.

5. Again being passive on offense is very real and tangible. Kobe in game 7 vs. PHX. Pau in 2008. chris Paul game 7 vs. Spurs. Lebron in 2010 vs. Celts all passive imho.

Kobe in Game 7 was very aggressive, just aggressively sending a point.

Pau in 2008 took his game out of the game.

CP3 got bottled by Bowen.

Lebron was the focus of the entire Boston team, he should be passing those shots.

[Killakobe81]

Fine subs ute Kobe for Tim Duncan. Point still stands.



Of course he does, otherwise he will be exiled to some other teams. Everybody wants to play in LA. Why would he undermine his chances of staying on the team? You think he wants to be another one of the victims and be thrown under the bus?



There are many cases the Lakers were favoured and lost, does that mean Kobe lacks fire? Makes no sense.



I am saying his passiveness is a direct result of being afraid to be thrown under the bus. I am not saying his passiveness is not an issue.



Kobe in Game 7 was very aggressive, just aggressively sending a point.

Pau in 2008 took his game out of the game.

CP3 got bottled by Bowen.

Lebron was the focus of the entire Boston team, he should be passing those shots.

1. Not saying that those Spanish team losses are ALL on him. but before the development of Ibaka and his brother Pau was the stud of that ESP national team and as such had a responsibilty to stay aggressive because when you are the best player your team feeds off that. In fact I tell my best player (mostly PG's) that if I trust them with the rock it's their responsibilty to go hard every game.

2. I think anyone would agree that overall Pau plays basketball the right way especially on offense but even his defense is a bit underrated. He plays tall at the rim even if he lacks force at times. He is a top 5 passing big man even as he ages a capable shooter and on the block as a pivot maybe only Al Jeff and Duncan are clearly better. I just want more "force". Hard to describe, if yo dont play or coach but if you watch him play you see it on boards, rim protection etc.

3. Being agressive doesnt mean you take Swaggy P/Kobe/Crawford hero shots. but you can aggressively attack and then dish. Paul vs. Spurs, Lebron in 2010 and that guys vs. PHX sould all have done other things with force to have a more of an impact.

4. Pau's greatest success has primarily come as a #2. He is not built to be MVPau no matter how much you want that to be truth to denigrate the other player. Kobe also needed him too or his light two rings.

5. Nothing you have said changes my point. You just are making excuses for his passive play which you freely admit is just opinion. Which is why I pointed at the national team games. Where he was the clear star, no Kobe, yet he still for some reason falls in to that passive zone from time to time. If he just sucked like Boozer or had not shown he CAN play with force. I would not care. But I like Pau and wanted him to be his best. I still do. Not sure who I would rather see win out East Love (UCLA!) or Pau (laker great). He was the perfect Kobe partner because he did not need to shoot a great deal to have an impact and we all know Kobe is shot hungry. But he does not need your excuses.

[ambchang]

1. Not saying that those Spanish team losses are ALL on him. but before the development of Ibaka and his brother Pau was the stud of that ESP national team and as such had a responsibilty to stay aggressive because when you are the best player your team feeds off that. In fact I tell my best player (mostly PG's) that if I trust them with the rock it's their responsibilty to go hard every game.

You reaching dawg, are you saying that the Spanish National team underperformed before Ibaka and Fat Gasol came to their own? Of course the Spanish National team couldn't make any noise without them, because they were extremely important to the success of the team. You expecting MVPau to roll the three of them into one and dominate like prime Wilt vs. team Angola?

2. I think anyone would agree that overall Pau plays basketball the right way especially on offense but even his defense is a bit underrated. He plays tall at the rim even if he lacks force at times. He is a top 5 passing big man even as he ages a capable shooter and on the block as a pivot maybe only Al Jeff and Duncan are clearly better. I just want more "force". Hard to describe, if yo dont play or coach but if you watch him play you see it on boards, rim protection etc.

MVPau is decent defensively, but there are limitations, he is not the best in the world, not the worst in the world, but he's definitely above average, or can even be a vital piece of the defense.

As for offense, his post play is one of the best, extremely skilled player who knows when to shoot and when to pass.

3. Being agressive doesnt mean you take Swaggy P/Kobe/Crawford hero shots. but you can aggressively attack and then dish. Paul vs. Spurs, Lebron in 2010 and that guys vs. PHX sould all have done other things with force to have a more of an impact.

Why not use those teammates around you? Duncan does that year after year, but nobody ever said he's not aggressive, because the Spurs win. if the Lakers won, nobody will be talking about MVPau not being aggressive enough. In fact, name me one superstar who is NOT aggressive enough in a series win.

4. Pau's greatest success has primarily come as a #2. He is not built to be MVPau no matter how much you want that to be truth to denigrate the other player. Kobe also needed him too or his light two rings.

He's got #2 personality, #1 talent.

5. Nothing you have said changes my point. You just are making excuses for his passive play which you freely admit is just opinion. Which is why I pointed at the national team games. Where he was the clear star, no Kobe, yet he still for some reason falls in to that passive zone from time to time. If he just sucked like Boozer or had not shown he CAN play with force. I would not care. But I like Pau and wanted him to be his best. I still do. Not sure who I would rather see win out East Love (UCLA!) or Pau (laker great). He was the perfect Kobe partner because he did not need to shoot a great deal to have an impact and we all know Kobe is shot hungry. But he does not need your excuses.

MVPau was the clear #1 on those highly successful teams.

[Killakobe81]

You reaching dawg, are you saying that the Spanish National team underperformed before Ibaka and Fat Gasol came to their own? Of course the Spanish National team couldn't make any noise without them, because they were extremely important to the success of the team. You expecting MVPau to roll the three of them into one and dominate like prime Wilt vs. team Angola?



MVPau is decent defensively, but there are limitations, he is not the best in the world, not the worst in the world, but he's definitely above average, or can even be a vital piece of the defense.

As for offense, his post play is one of the best, extremely skilled player who knows when to shoot and when to pass.



Why not use those teammates around you? Duncan does that year after year, but nobody ever said he's not aggressive, because the Spurs win. if the Lakers won, nobody will be talking about MVPau not being aggressive enough. In fact, name me one superstar who is NOT aggressive enough in a series win.



He's got #2 personality, #1 talent.



MVPau was the clear #1 on those highly successful teams.

1. no he was not a clear #1 ...That is why you take every chance to argue the opposite. It's why despite Duncan haveing an obvious advantage after 5 you still bother going through the shenanigans you do on here. If it was clear why do you argue?

2. Are you that ignorant of international ball? Pau had plenty of NBA caliber international talent. These were the guys that tried out in 2007 One year before he joined the Lakers. As Argentina aged SPain was the clear favorites yet they were beat by Kirilenko and Dirk led teams with far less NBA talent in Euro Basket and FIBA world championships ...
Again not knocking him, but your excuses are weak here. You pin it all on Kobe, stans or media but until he won with Kobe, Phil and Fish he couldnt even win in FIBA as a#1. It has nothing to do with Pau not having great talent he just is better suited because he is not agressive enough to be a #1 on a team that is trying to contend for ANY championship here or overseas.

BTW, he was really good the past few years for FIBA ...could mean abounce back year with Bulls, I hope it does.

Spain:

PG:
- José Manuel Calderón*
- Sergio Rodríguez*
- Ricky Rubio

SG:
- Juan Carlos Navarro*
- Rudy Fernández*
- Berni Rodríguez*


SF:
- Carlos Jiménez*
- Alex Mumbru*
- Sergi Vidal

PF/C:
- Pau Gasol*
- Jorge Garbajosa*
- Felipe Reyes*
- Marc Gasol*
- Fran Vázquez

2007 Euro Basket invitations ...recognize any of those names?

[ambchang]

1. no he was not a clear #1 ...That is why you take every chance to argue the opposite. It's why despite Duncan haveing an obvious advantage after 5 you still bother going through the shenanigans you do on here. If it was clear why do you argue?

2. Are you that ignorant of international ball? Pau had plenty of NBA caliber international talent. These were the guys that tried out in 2007 One year before he joined the Lakers. As Argentina aged SPain was the clear favorites yet they were beat by Kirilenko and Dirk led teams with far less NBA talent in Euro Basket and FIBA world championships ...
Again not knocking him, but your excuses are weak here. You pin it all on Kobe, stans or media but until he won with Kobe, Phil and Fish he couldnt even win in FIBA as a#1. It has nothing to do with Pau not having great talent he just is better suited because he is not agressive enough to be a #1 on a team that is trying to contend for ANY championship here or overseas.

BTW, he was really good the past few years for FIBA ...could mean abounce back year with Bulls, I hope it does.

Spain:

PG:
- José Manuel Calderón*
- Sergio Rodríguez*
- Ricky Rubio

SG:
- Juan Carlos Navarro*
- Rudy Fernández*
- Berni Rodríguez*


SF:
- Carlos Jiménez*
- Alex Mumbru*
- Sergi Vidal

PF/C:
- Pau Gasol*
- Jorge Garbajosa*
- Felipe Reyes*
- Marc Gasol*
- Fran Vázquez

2007 Euro Basket invitations ...recognize any of those names?

Any of those can claim to be the #1 over Pau Gasol.

PG:
- José Manuel Calderón*- Where did he lead Toronto and Dallas
- Sergio Rodríguez* - Great promise, but ended up a journeyman
- Ricky Rubio - was he 12 back in 2007?

SG:
- Juan Carlos Navarro* - Good player too bad he didn't stick around the league. But he's not even the best Navarro, Dave Navarro kicks ass.
- Rudy Fernández* - Is this guy supposed to be the new Manu? More like the new manure
- Berni Rodríguez* - Waiting for his NBA debut


SF:
- Carlos Jiménez* - Waiting for his NBA debut
- Alex Mumbru* - Waiting for his NBA debut
- Sergi Vidal - Waiting for his NBA debut

PF/C:
- Pau Gasol* - MVPau GOAT!
- Jorge Garbajosa* - was this before or after his crippling leg injury that rendered him useless the rest of his career?
- Felipe Reyes* - Waiting for his NBA debut
- Marc Gasol* - So good he got drafted in the 2nd round, and didn't even became good until 2 years later.
- Fran Vázquez - So good he doesn't even have to guts to come to the NBA

And about Rubio, how old was he then? 12?