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  1. #251
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    When Washington residents voted in 1998 to raise the state’s minimum wage and link it to the cost of living, opponents warned the measure would be a job-killer. The prediction hasn’t been borne out.

    In the 15 years that followed, the state’s minimum wage climbed to $9.32 -- the highest in the country. Meanwhile job growth continued at an average 0.8 percent annual pace, 0.3 percentage point above the national rate. Payrolls at Washington’s restaurants and bars, portrayed as particularly vulnerable to higher wage costs, expanded by 21 percent. Poverty has trailed the U.S. level for at least seven years.
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-u-s-with-jobs

  2. #252
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    the "opponents", like business, business orgs, etc. got nothing but LIES and FUD.

    Studies going back DECADES shows that raising the minimum wage has little or no effect on unemployment.

    "opponents" scream higher minimum wage causes job losses, as if they GAF about jobs

  3. #253
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    Why do people insist on thinking that minimum wage should be a living wage?
    to get Ms off (taxpayer-funded) public assistance, raise Ms out of poverty (esp single women with kids), and push all the other wages UP to compensate a little for the 35 years of real wage stagnation and decline.

  4. #254
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  5. #255
    Yes. I sign my name. Slutter McGee's Avatar
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    bouton,

    I am going to try an educate you a little bit. Here is what you have correct: On the aggregate the net change of employment will not be huge for a small increase in the minimum wage. I might even be positive.

    But I don't think you have thought through the actual effects of a minimum wage increase.

    1. It will hurt small businesses but may actually help huge corporations. I can share the data if you request. Large corporations have a smaller marginal cost and can absorb a wage increase. Where as small businesses can only deal with a wage increase by raising prices.
    2. It will hurt low turnover businesses and may help large turnover businesses.
    3. It will hurt poor and minority kids, at least on the margins: Dollars have lower utility to more affluent kids who are better educated. An increase in the wage is going to cause them to look for jobs. They also have a higher marginal product of labor. Businesses will subs ute away from poorer teens.
    4. There will be a negative effect on education, as less people go back to school, leading somebody not to increase their marginal product of labor.
    5. Tying the minimum wage to CPI would be stupid. CPI has subs ution and quan y bias issues and overstates inflation. It is also an aggregate data set. Labor markets vary highly by location and have different elasticity, cost of living etc.

    I can actually show you the data if you don't believe me.

    ter McGee

  6. #256
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    bringin in more visa working migrants doesnt solve like driving down the avg salary

    u pay people peanuts, u get peanuts...

  7. #257
    Yes. I sign my name. Slutter McGee's Avatar
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    Bouton's don't be shy. Read my post. We can see if you have the ability for intellectual thought and reasoning, in addition to your incredible ability to parrot liberal talking points.

    Come on, Argue with somebody who knows what the they are talking about. You can do it. Give it a shot.

    ter McGee

  8. #258
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    Bouton's don't be shy. Read my post. We can see if you have the ability for intellectual thought and reasoning, in addition to your incredible ability to parrot liberal talking points.

    Come on, Argue with somebody who knows what the they are talking about. You can do it. Give it a shot.

    ter McGee
    I'll slap you tomorrow, wait for it.

  9. #259
    Yes. I sign my name. Slutter McGee's Avatar
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    I'll slap you tomorrow, wait for it.
    I will be waiting.

  10. #260
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    http://shiftwa.org/more-seattle-rest...ampaign=buffer

    More Seattle restaurants close doors as $15 minimum wage approaches

    Seattle’s $15 minimum wage law goes into effect on April 1, 2015. As that date approaches, restaurants across the city are making the financial decision to close shop. The Washington Policy Center writes that “closings have occurred across the city, from Grub in the upscale Queen Anne Hill neighborhood, to Little Uncle in gritty Pioneer Square, to the Boat Street Cafe on Western Avenue near the waterfront.”

    Of course, restaurants close for a variety of reasons. But, according to Seattle Magazine, the “impending minimum wage hike to $15 per hour” is playing a “major factor.” That’s not surprising, considering “about 36% of restaurant earnings go to paying labor costs.” Seattle Magazine,

    “Washington Restaurant Association’s Anthony Anton puts it this way: “It’s not a political problem; it’s a math problem.”

    “He estimates that a common budget breakdown among sustaining Seattle restaurants so far has been the following: 36 percent of funds are devoted to labor, 30 percent to food costs and 30 percent go to everything else (all other operational costs). The remaining 4 percent has been the profit margin, and as a result, in a $700,000 restaurant, he estimates that the average restauranteur in Seattle has been making $28,000 a year.

    “With the minimum wage e, however, he says that if restaurant owners made no changes, the labor cost in quick service restaurants would rise to 42 percent and in full service restaurants to 47 percent.”

    Restaurant owners, expecting to operate on thinner margins, have tried to adapt in several ways including “higher menu prices, cheaper, lower-quality ingredients, reduced opening times, and cutting work hours and firing workers,” according to The Seattle Times and Seattle Eater magazine. As the Washington Policy Center points out, when these strategies are not enough, businesses close, “workers lose their jobs and the neighborhood loses a prized amenity.”

    A spokesman for the Washington Restaurant Association told the Washington Policy Center, “Every [restaurant] operator I’m talking to is in panic mode, trying to figure out what the new world will look like… Seattle is the first city in this thing and everyone’s watching, asking how is this going to change?” The Washington Policy Center,

    “Seattle is rightly famous for great neighborhood restaurants. That won’t change. What will change is that fewer people will be able to afford to dine out, and as a result there will be fewer great restaurants to enjoy. People probably won’t notice when some restaurant workers lose their jobs, but as prices rise and some neighborhood businesses close, the quality of life in urban Seattle will become a little bit poorer.”
    Hurrah for unemployment?

    Everyone knows $0 > $15

  11. #261
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    http://shiftwa.org/more-seattle-rest...ampaign=buffer

    More Seattle restaurants close doors as $15 minimum wage approaches



    Hurrah for unemployment?

    Everyone knows $0 > $15
    So how many restaurants have actually closed?

  12. #262
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    So how many restaurants have actually closed?
    You can read the article just like I can.

  13. #263
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    You can read the article just like I can.
    So no restaurants have closed because of this law.

    OK.

  14. #264
    Veteran Wild Cobra's Avatar
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    Angry...

    Chump, as much as I like to admit this, might be right...

    I didn't see any indication any have closed.
    Last edited by Wild Cobra; 04-06-2015 at 12:19 AM.

  15. #265
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    1) The linked article says all about any actual restaurant's closing

    2) A linked article inside the ty article actually talks about four restaurants that closed in a month; though the Seattle area should expect to see about 400 closings a year according to their business association. 30 closings would be a less than average month.

    3) None of those restaurants closed because of the minimum wage law. Wanna know why? The damn article said so.

    4) The wage isn't even $15 at this point.

    5) You should read the articles you post if you don't want them to be read to you like this.
    Last edited by ChumpDumper; 04-06-2015 at 12:07 AM.

  16. #266
    Yes. I sign my name. Slutter McGee's Avatar
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    I'll slap you tomorrow, wait for it.
    Still waiting boutons....or have you figured out that your liberal bull talking points don't reflect reality?

    Waiting...for you to slap me, then I will use actual evidence, studies, and real statistics to prove you are an idiot.

    ter McGee

  17. #267
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    Still waiting boutons....or have you figured out that your liberal bull talking points don't reflect reality?

    Waiting...for you to slap me, then I will use actual evidence, studies, and real statistics to prove you are an idiot.

    ter McGee
    The gets rope-a-doped! Sucker punch coming soon!

  18. #268
    Yes. I sign my name. Slutter McGee's Avatar
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    The gets rope-a-doped! Sucker punch coming soon!
    Yeah, that sure was something. I tell you the truth and challenge you to tell me I am wrong. You say you are going to to do it, then back out like a little when you realize I am right.

    You sure got me there.

    ter McGee

  19. #269
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
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    Yeah, that sure was something. I tell you the truth and challenge you to tell me I am wrong. You say you are going to to do it, then back out like a little when you realize I am right.

    You sure got me there.

    ter McGee
    How do you know he is not thoughtfully preparing his response? It's not like he's ignoring you. I suggest you wait patiently

  20. #270
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    lol @ thoughtful.

  21. #271
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    1) The linked article says all about any actual restaurant's closing

    2) A linked article inside the ty article actually talks about four restaurants that closed in a month; though the Seattle area should expect to see about 400 closings a year according to their business association. 30 closings would be a less than average month.

    3) None of those restaurants closed because of the minimum wage law. Wanna know why? The damn article said so.

    4) The wage isn't even $15 at this point.

    5) You should read the articles you post if you don't want them to be read to you like this.
    Here are two stores so far that have closed specifically because of a $15 minimum wage (one in Seattle, one in San Francisco) and were savvy enough to advertise in the media they were specifically closing because of the minimum wage law you smug piece of (because if they hadn't people like you who are incapable of reasoning would be confused and think they were closing for some other reason). I hate to bold the important parts but I don't want you to have to think too hard. Because everyone knows that every business that goes out of business is required to report to the media the specific reason they closed.

    http://shiftwa.org/first-casualty-of...-minimum-wage/

    Seattle’s $15 minimum wage has claimed its first casualty… and the union-driven, completely arbitrary policy has yet to be implemented. Cascade Designs, an outdoor recreational gear manufacturing company, announced it is moving 100 jobs (20% of the workforce) later this year from Seattle to a new plant it is leasing near Reno, Nevada.

    Cascade Designs “manufactures MSR camping stoves, Platypus hydration packs, SeaLine dry bags, and Therma-A-Rest sleeping pads — hundreds of products made by workers in Seattle.” The company has offered some employees positions in Reno, but others must reapply.

    Founder John Burroughs and son David Burroughs (Vice Chair) said that Seattle’s $15 minimum wage “nudged them into action.” Burroughs wants to keep production in the United States, though the company does have a plant in Ireland. Burroughs said Seattle’s new minimum wage would “eventually add up to a few million dollars a year.”

    The need to expand—an expensive prospect in Seattle—added to Cascade Designs’ decision to move.

    Cascade Designs isn’t the only casualty of the $15 minimum wage, and it won’t be the last based on experiences elsewhere. In November, San Francisco joined Seattle in passing a $15 minimum wage and the consequences are real. Last week, Borderlands Books, a locally owned bookstore in San Francisco, announced that it would close shop by March 31. After being in business for 18 years, the small business owner said voters’ approval of a $15 minimum wage was the “straw that will finally break his small company’s back.” The Washington Policy Center,

    Borderlands Books acknowledges “the major effects of increasing the minimum wage won’t be felt for while,” and the store could prolong the inevitable and continue to stay in business for a bit longer. But the minimum wage increased from $10.74 to $11.05 this year, with another increase to $12.25 scheduled on May 1; no corresponding increase in income means the store will slowly become less and less profitable and will be forced to expend its cash assets. In other words, the store will save more money by closing its doors now.
    Abbot’s Cellar and Luna Park, popular locally owned restaurants, have already made the difficult decision to close their doors. The small business owners blamed San Francisco’s wage hike as a factor in their decision. The San Francisco Eater, a local publication following the city’s restaurant scene, predicts that the impact of the $15 minimum is “likely to be repeated by many restaurants that shutter or reformat this year.”

  22. #272
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    A bookstore closed? That's a shocking development.

  23. #273
    Still Hates Small Ball Spurminator's Avatar
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    In other news, Stan's CD Imporium, Pog Trader's Haven, and the local Glamour Shots also closed their doors, citing the increased minimum wage.

  24. #274
    Alleged Michigander ChumpDumper's Avatar
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    Here are two stores so far that have closed specifically because of a $15 minimum wage (one in Seattle, one in San Francisco) and were savvy enough to advertise in the media they were specifically closing because of the minimum wage law you smug piece of (because if they hadn't people like you who are incapable of reasoning would be confused and think they were closing for some other reason). I hate to bold the important parts but I don't want you to have to think too hard. Because everyone knows that every business that goes out of business is required to report to the media the specific reason they closed.

    http://shiftwa.org/first-casualty-of...-minimum-wage/


    So a manufacturer moved to a cheaper place as is natural and a bookstore closed.

    Good for them.

    Do they still have Blockbuster Video up there? That might be next.

  25. #275
    Yes. I sign my name. Slutter McGee's Avatar
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    So a manufacturer moved to a cheaper place as is natural and a bookstore closed.

    Good for them.

    Do they still have Blockbuster Video up there? That might be next.
    With this increase in the MW (It is strictly binding instead of just binding), small businesses are going to see a reduction in employment. The possible positive increase in Employment in High Turnover and Larger businesses will not be able to offset it. The big question is how much and will the decrease be statistically significant. Job creation will slow, but I doubt we see much reduction in the job destruction rate so I don't expect this will turn Seattle into Detroit over night.

    This is just economic reality.

    ter McGee

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