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  1. #1
    Veteran Big Empty's Avatar
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    So how big of a deal is this really? Its all over cnn and fox.

  2. #2
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    So how big of a deal is this really? Its all over cnn and fox.
    They'll hype anything to replace their normally dead boring progmming.

    Fox, Repugs, right-wing hate media will be ting all over Obama for not going to war in Russia's backyard. I hope he doesn't fire a single shot.

    But I'm not sure the NSA/Black ops/DoD blood-thirsty killers will hold back.

  3. #3
    The Show Must Go On TE's Avatar
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    WW3 tbh

  4. #4
    "The ball don't lie." dbestpro's Avatar
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    Hard to tell who the guys and the bad guys are, particularly when you compare our reaction to Egypt, and what happened there.

  5. #5
    Veteran Fabbs's Avatar
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    Oh the hypocrisy

    "You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th-century fashion, by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext," Kerry said, appearing on CBS's "Face the Nation."

  6. #6
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    Fox, Repugs, right-wing hate media will be ting all over Obama for not going to war in Russia's backyard. I hope he doesn't fire a single shot.
    Link please, I've seen nothing of the sort.

  7. #7
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    They'll hype anything to replace their normally dead boring progmming.

    Fox, Repugs, right-wing hate media will be ting all over Obama for not going to war in Russia's backyard. I hope he doesn't fire a single shot.

    But I'm not sure the NSA/Black ops/DoD blood-thirsty killers will hold back.
    No. They got their fill with Iraq and Afghanistan. At least the Tparty faction.

    It will be a diplomatic incompetence argument. How all of this could have been avoided if... Invoke hindsight.
    The Democrats pull the same crap.

  8. #8
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    don't see how Europe (who Russia has by the balls with the gas, etc) or the US (who needs the Russian routes to keep ing around in the ME) do about this.

    Maybe they do some token like take the Nyets away from Prokorov and call it a day.

  9. #9
    Spur-taaaa TDMVPDPOY's Avatar
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    no oil no care

  10. #10
    Rum and Coke SupremeGuy's Avatar
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    They'll hype anything to replace their normally dead boring progmming.

    Fox, Repugs, right-wing hate media will be ting all over Obama for not going to war in Russia's backyard. I hope he doesn't fire a single shot.

    But I'm not sure the NSA/Black ops/DoD blood-thirsty killers will hold back.
    lol Yeah, letting an Eastern European country just invade whatever other Eastern European country they want has always worked out fantastically for the World.

    You're going to have your wish though, Obama cannot and will not do anything about the threat of Russian expansion. He isn't anything close to what we need as a leader.

  11. #11
    Spurs > Yankees > Knicks Technique's Avatar
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    lol Yeah, letting an Eastern European country just invade whatever other Eastern European country they want has always worked out fantastically for the World.
    That's far from the truth. Ukraine is a sister country to Russia. In fact, the region of Crimea is filled with Russian built cities before it was given to the Ukrainian oblast in 1954 which at the time was one country (CCCP). Considering that over 50% of the population in Ukraine are Ukranian citizens that are Russian. Russia has every legitimate reason to protect it's key interests in the historically intertwined nation of Ukraine.

  12. #12
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    To the neocon mind the answer to all foreign relations problems is the same:

    North African civil war: WAR!
    Syrian civil war: WAR!
    Iraq just sitting there minding its own business: WAR!
    9-11 by Saudi Arabian agents: WAR with Afghanistan!
    Iran just sitting there: WAR (handwriting is on the wall)
    European country invaded during civil war by country other than US : WAR!

    For once I'm glad for Obama's incompetence.

  13. #13
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    Let the Russians and Ukrainians kill each other. Murica should stay out of it.

  14. #14
    All Hail the Legatron The Reckoning's Avatar
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    it's their own issue to deal with. if they dislike their government enough to violently revolt, they should be willing to accept the baggage that comes with it.

  15. #15
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    Link please, I've seen nothing of the sort.
    that's because you right-wingers are ing ignorant, esp the gun fellators.

    Pressure Rising as Obama Works to Rein In Russia

    “Create a democratic noose around Putin’s Russia,” urged Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina.

    “Revisit the missile defense shield,” suggested Senator Marco Rubio, Republican of Florida.

    “Cancel Sochi,” argued Representative Mike Rogers, the Michigan Republican who leads the Intelligence Committee, referring to the Group of 8 summit meeting to be hosted by President Vladimir V. Putin.

    Senator Bob Corker of Tennessee, the top Republican on the Foreign Relations Committee, has already devised language to serve as the basis for possible bipartisan legislation outlining a forceful response, including sanctions against Russia and economic support for Ukraine.

    Mr. Corker traced the origins of Mr. Putin’s brash invasion to September when, in the face of bipartisan opposition in Congress, Mr. Obama pulled back from plans to conduct an airstrike on Syria in retaliation for a chemical-weapons attack on civilians. Instead, he accepted a Russian offer to work jointly to remove the chemical weapons.

    “Ever since the administration threw themselves into the arms of Russia in Syria to keep from carrying out what they said they would carry out, I think, he saw weakness,” Mr. Corker said of Mr. Putin. “These are the consequences.”

    even Republicans who opposed Mr. Obama in Syria were pushing for a hard line against Mr. Putin.

    http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/03/03...?from=homepage

    etc, etc, etc. Fox, Limpballs, Beck, Malkin, etc will all be screaming Obama's got no , hilarious like Obama crosses his legs while Putin sits spread eagle.


    Republicans hit Obama foreign policy over Ukraine


    http://www.usatoday.com/story/theova...rimea/5944265/

    GOP, Conservatives Intensify Calls for Strong Action in Ukraine

    http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/ukr...#ixzz2uthiSgrc

    etc, etc, etc. No matter what Obama does or doesn't do, the Fox Repug Lie Machine will be against it.



  16. #16
    Veteran Fabbs's Avatar
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    boutons

  17. #17
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    tea bagger/Repug intellectual giant chimes in

    Palin says ‘I-Told-Ya-So’ on Ukraine prediction: ‘I could see this one from Alaska’





    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/03/0...e+Raw+Story%29


  18. #18
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    What do you blood-thirsty, murderous non-combattants want Obama to do? rain down cruise missiles? invade Crimea?

    Western Europe is dependent on (compromised by) on Russian natural gas, but who care about Old Europe?
    Last edited by boutons_deux; 03-03-2014 at 10:53 AM.

  19. #19
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    Russia Gas Threat Shows Putin Using Pipes to Press Ukraine

    OAO Gazprom (OGZD)
    ’s threat to end natural gas discounts for Ukraine adds to the financial burden on the near-bankrupt government in Kiev and makes Europe’s energy supply part of the escalating crisis.

    Russia’s gas-export monopoly said on March 1 it may end last year’s agreement to supply Ukraine at a cheaper rate unless it’s paid $1.55 billion owed for fuel. It’s the first time since the overthrow of pro-Moscow president Viktor Yanukovych last month that Russia has directly used its position as Ukraine’s dominant energy supplier to pressure the new regime.

    Vladimir Putin
    , who has permission from Russian lawmakers to deploy troops to Ukraine, has repeatedly used gas to strong-arm his western neighbor, cutting off supplies twice since 2006 over payment disputes. Because Ukraine hosts a network of Soviet-era pipelines that carry more than half of Russia’s gas exports to the European Union, any disruption of supply puts the region’s energy security at risk.


    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-0...s-ukraine.html

    USA, compromised by its dependence on Saudi Arabian oil, stayed quiet while SA brutally crushed the Arab Spring in Bahrain.

    Why shouldn't USA/Europe stay quiet now while Russia crushes the Ukraine?



  20. #20
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    Russia–Ukraine gas disputes


    The Russia–Ukraine gas disputes refer to a number of disputes between Ukrainian oil and gas company Naftohaz Ukrainy and Russian gas supplier Gazprom overnatural gas supplies, prices, and debts. These disputes have grown beyond simple business disputes into transnational political issues—involving political leaders from several countries—that threaten natural gas supplies in numerous European countries dependent on natural gas imports from Russian suppliers, which are transported through Ukraine. Russia provides approximately a quarter of the natural gas consumed in the European Union; approximately 80% of those exports travel through pipelines across Ukrainian soil prior to arriving in the EU.[1]

    A serious dispute began in March 2005 over the price of natural gas supplied and the cost of transit. During this conflict, Russia claimed Ukraine was not paying for gas, but diverting it intended to be exported to the EU from the pipelines. Ukrainian officials at first denied the accusation,[2][3] but later Naftohaz admitted that natural gas intended for other European countries was retained and used for domestic needs. The dispute reached a crescendo on 1 January 2006, when Russia cut off all gas supplies passing through Ukrainian territory.[4] On 4 January 2006, a preliminary agreement between Russia and Ukraine was achieved, and the supply was restored. The situation calmed until October 2007 when new disputes began over Ukrainian gas debts. This led to reduction of gas supplies in March 2008. During the last months of 2008, relations once again became tense when Ukraine and Russia could not agree on the debts owed by Ukraine.[5]

    In January 2009, this disagreement resulted in supply disruptions in many European nations, with eighteen European countries reporting major drops in or complete cut-offs of their gas supplies transported through Ukraine from Russia.[6][7] In September 2009 officials from both countries stated they felt the situation was under control and that there would be no more conflicts over the topic,[8][9] at least until the Ukrainian 2010 presidential elections.[10] However, in October 2009, another disagreement arose about the amount of gas Ukraine would import from Russia in 2010. Ukraine intended to import less gas in 2010 as a result of reduced industry needs because of its economic recession; however, Gazprom insisted that Ukraine fulfill its contractual obligations and purchase the previously agreed upon quan ies of gas.[11]


    On June 8, 2010, a Stockholm court of arbitration ruled Naftohaz of Ukraine must return 12.1 billion cubic metres (430 billion cubic feet) of gas to RosUkrEnergo, aSwiss-based company in which Gazprom controls a 50% stake. Russia accused Ukrainian side of siphoning gas from pipelines passing through Ukraine in 2009.[12][13] Several high-ranking Ukrainian officials stated the return "would not be quick".[14]



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia%...e_gas_disputes



  21. #21
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    What do you blood-thirsty, murderous non-combattants want Obama to do? rain down cruise missiles? invade Crimea?

    Western Europe is dependent on (compromised by) on Russiqn natural gas, but who care about Old Europe?
    If one is looking for escalation, make Ukraine a member of NATO after elections are held. The Russians have already violated their part of the agreement when Ukraine got independence in the 90s.

    Russia can be made to suffer economically as well, it's just that Europe will also, which means we will as well.
    Russia would take a much harder hit though. It's a calculated risk. Putin can swim in freezing water, the Russian people are tougher and can endure economic hardship, the West can't handle eating cabbage every day.
    Last edited by pgardn; 03-03-2014 at 10:48 AM.

  22. #22
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Russia would take a much harder hit though. It's a calculated risk. Putin can swim in freezing water, the Russian people are tougher and can endure economic hardship, the West can't handle eating cabbage every day.
    I'm here a week now... waiting for a mission... getting softer. Every minute I stay in this room, I get weaker, and every minute Charlie squats in the bush, he gets stronger. Each time I looked around the walls moved in a little tighter.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFsMguGrUVo


    counterpoint:
    Yet the EU might hold stronger cards than the Russians think. Russian propaganda about depraved Europe conceals an intimate relationship. Tourism in the European Union is a safety valve for a large Russian middle class that takes its cues in fashion and pretty much everything else from European culture. Much of the Russian elite has sent its children to private schools in the European Union or Switzerland. Beyond that, since no Russian of any serious means trusts the Russian financial system, wealthy Russians park their wealth in European banks. In other words, the Russian social order depends upon the Europe that Russian propaganda mocks. And beneath hypocrisy, as usual, lies vulnerability.
    http://www.newrepublic.com/article/1...ention-ukraine

  23. #23
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Most of the Crimea is basically a desert, with less annual rainfall than Los Angeles. It is impossible to sustain its 2 million people—including agriculture and the substantial tourist industry—without Ukrainian water. Current supplies aren’t even enough. In Sevastopol, home of the Black Sea Fleet, households get water only on certain days. In fact, on Feb. 19, when snipers were shooting protesters on the streets of Kiev, Sevastopol applied for $34 million in Western aid (note the irony) to improve its water and sewer systems.


    The Crimea’s dependence on Ukraine for nearly all of it electricity makes it equally vulnerable to nonviolent retaliation. One suggestion making the rounds of the Ukrainian Internet is that the mainland, with warning, shut off the power for 15 minutes. It may not normalize the situation, but it could give Moscow pause. Of course, Russia could retaliate by cutting off Ukrainian gas supplies, but that would mean cutting off much of Europe as well. Besides, Ukrainians proved this winter that they aren’t afraid of the cold, and spring is coming.
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...lculating.html

  24. #24
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    But the only reason that Crimea had a Russian majority was because Josef Stalin deported the native Crimean Tatars en masse to Central Asia after World War II and resettled Russians to replace them.
    same

  25. #25
    dangerous floater Winehole23's Avatar
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    Lithuania has already asked for Article IV consultations under the NATO Treaty in response to a clear threat to its security.

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