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  1. #76
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    No they wanted him to start having to pay to help fund the park service because of an environmental order on the lands that he was using. There is a clear cause and effect. Local scientists get protection for a species and fees go up. He stops paying.

    You are speaking to intent. I know you have created this scenario in your head where Reid is pulling strings in Washington so he can get this land for his sons solar project but that is stupid. His son bought the land out by Laughlin.

    There are several scientists from local universities who are still pressing the claim for the environmental protection order first enforced in 1993. Bunker was not the target here. Most of the state is federal land and anyone in the region has to pay. He decided he did not want to pay. him.
    They've already spent wayyyyyyyyy more money trying to get him to comply then they would by him actually paying the fine. It's not about money for the park. It sure as isn't about protecting a damn turtle.

  2. #77
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    If it's not his land and he owes $1 million, what kind of precedent does that set if the BLM lets themselves get bullied by this guy?
    It's their own damn fault. No one would know this guy was bullying them if they didn't send snipers out there in the first place.

  3. #78
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    No they wanted him to start having to pay to help fund the park service because of an environmental order on the lands that he was using. There is a clear cause and effect. Local scientists get protection for a species and fees go up. He stops paying.

    You are speaking to intent. I know you have created this scenario in your head where Reid is pulling strings in Washington so he can get this land for his sons solar project but that is stupid. His son bought the land out by Laughlin.

    There are several scientists from local universities who are still pressing the claim for the environmental protection order first enforced in 1993. Bunker was not the target here. Most of the state is federal land and anyone in the region has to pay. He decided he did not want to pay. him.
    You're convinced this is basically over a tortoise.

  4. #79
    my unders, my frgn whites pgardn's Avatar
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    www.blm.gov/ nv/ st/ en/ fo/ lvfo/ blm_programs/ more/ trespass_cattle/ history_of_trepass.print.html
    Retrieved from Google cache


    U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIORBUREAU OF LAND MANAGEMENT
    Nevada

    Northeast Clark County Cattle Trespass


    History of Cattle Trespass

    In 1993, some of the terms of Mr. Bundy’s grazing permit for the Bunkerville allotment were modified to protect the desert tortoise. Mr. Bundy did not accept the offered grazing permit and subsequently stopped paying grazing fees. The BLM then cancelled Mr. Bundy’s grazing permit but Mr. Bundy continued to graze his cattle in the Bunkerville Allotment. A portion of the Bunkerville Allotment is National Park Service (NPS) lands which BLM managed by agreement with NPS.

    In 1997, in accordance with the Desert Tortoise Recovery Plan and the Biological Opinion released by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, active grazing permits in tortoise habitat were purchased by Clark County under the Clark County Multi-Species Habitat Conservation Program. Mr. Bundy rejected a tentative proposal to compensate him for any stockwater rights or range improvements he might have in his former allotment.

    In 1998, the United States filed a civil complaint against Mr. Bundy for his continued trespass grazing in the Bunkerville Allotment. The U.S. District Court for the District of Nevada issued an order permanently enjoining Mr. Bundy from grazing cattle on the Bunkerville allotment, ordered him to remove all trespass cattle and set a penalty of $200 per day per animal remaining on the federal range.

    In 1999, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals upheld the District Court’s permanent injunction. When Mr. Bundy failed to remove his livestock as directed by the District Court, the United States filed a motion to enforce the permanent injunction and the District Court ordered Mr. Bundy to pay $1,377 as willful repeated trespass damages and adjusted fines to be consistent with regulatory rates of $45.90 per day for each day Mr. Bundy’s cattle remained on the allotment based on a herd size of 51 cows BLM had do ented as still remaining on the federal range.

    In 1999, the Las Vegas Field Office Resource Management Plan designated the Bunkerville allotment as “Closed to Grazing” to protect desert tortoise habitat.

    In 2008, BLM issued a decision to cancel Mr. Bundy’s range improvement authorizations (one range improvement permit and ten cooperative agreements). Mr. Bundy submitted a letter objecting to the action which BLM forwarded to the Interior Board of Land Appeals (IBLA) as an appeal. The IBLA issued a decision affirming the BLM’s cancellation decision on December 22, 2008.

    In March 2011, BLM counted 903 cattle from a helicopter spread out over approximately 90 miles in northeast Clark County within the Gold Butte area, including Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Of the 564 cattle that were in locations that could be accessed by ground teams, 43 percent had no identifying marks, 41 percent had either brands or earmarks registered to Cliven Bundy and 16 percent could not be viewed from all sides to determine ownership information.

    In 2011, BLM [has] issued Mr. Bundy a Trespass Notice and Order to Cease and Desist; a Trespass Decision and Order to Remove; and a Notice of Intent to Impound. None of these communications resulted in Mr. Bundy’s voluntary removal of the trespass cattle from the public lands.

    In August 2011, cattle were counted by helicopter in the Gold Butte Areas of Critical Environmental Concern (ACECs), Mormon Mesa ACEC and Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Of the 729 cattle counted, only 278 cattle were in locations that could be accessed by the ground teams.

    In February 2012, approximately 600 cattle were spotted by helicopter including Gold Butte Areas of Critical Environmental Concern (ACECs), Mormon Mesa ACEC and Lake Mead National Recreation Area. Approximately 50 cattle were counted in Lake Mead National Recreation Area and 550 were counted on BLM managed public lands.

    In April 2012, 750 cattle were identified by helicopter on the federal lands. An impoundment operation scheduled to take place in April 2012 was cancelled a day before operations were set to begin.

    In May 2012, the United States filed a Complaint seeking declaratory and injunctive relief for Cliven Bundy’s trespass grazing within the Gold Butte area outside the Bunkerville Allotment, including within Lake Mead National Recreation Area.
    In April 2013, the United States filed a Motion to Enforce the 1998 Permanent Injunction against Cliven Bundy for the Bunkerville Allotment.

    In May 2013, 795 cattle were counted by helicopter on the federal lands.

    On July 9, 2013, U.S. District Court of Nevada Judge Lloyd George permanently enjoined Cliven Bundy’s trespass grazing and ordered Cliven Bundy to remove his trespass cattle from public land outside the former Bunkerville Allotment within 45 days, stating that the United States is authorized to seize and impound any cattle that remain in trespass after 45 days.

    On October 9, 2013, U.S. District Court of Nevada Judge Larry Hicks reiterated that Cliven Bundy is permanently enjoined from grazing the Bunkerville Allotment and has no legal right to graze the federal lands, directed him to remove his trespass cattle from the former Bunkerville Allotment within 45 days, authorized the United States to impound his cattle if he fails to remove them within 45 days or continues to trespass at a future date and directed Mr. Bundy not to physically interfere with an impoundment action.

    In December 2013, BLM counted 568 cattle by helicopter that remain on the federal lands that are subject to the permanent injunctions.
    These are all the legal papers filed.
    Do you think anyone actually talked to him?
    Or they just sent him papers and then showed up with guns?
    They had no inkling of any possible physical threat and just showed up with an army?

  5. #80
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    You're convinced this is basically over a tortoise.
    I don't think that it is about a tortoise but rather the tort around the tortoise. Again you are ignoring the ins ution of federal court in and of itself and the influence it exerts on executive agencies. There are people in government driving this but its not your favorite partisan stupidity.

    It is the two guys writing the court orders directing the BLM to get the asshole off of federal lands.

    On July 9, 2013, U.S. District Court of Nevada Judge Lloyd George permanently enjoined Cliven Bundy’s trespass grazing and ordered Cliven Bundy to remove his trespass cattle from public land outside the former Bunkerville Allotment within 45 days, stating that the United States is authorized to seize and impound any cattle that remain in trespass after 45 days.

    On October 9, 2013, U.S. District Court of Nevada Judge Larry Hicks reiterated that Cliven Bundy is permanently enjoined from grazing the Bunkerville Allotment and has no legal right to graze the federal lands, directed him to remove his trespass cattle from the former Bunkerville Allotment within 45 days, authorized the United States to impound his cattle if he fails to remove them within 45 days or continues to trespass at a future date and directed Mr. Bundy not to physically interfere with an impoundment action.
    You have a timeline and you go decades flaunting the authority of federal court and I can think of a few judges that would get up in arms about that. We have two right here.

    If you think that you can arm yourself and try and squat on federal land you are going to have problems. You tell not one but two federal judges that they have no authority in the matter and good luck with that.

    He needs to move his cows. the only reason why he wants over there is because of the proximity to the reservoir and he is ranching in the desert like a dumbass. they did not build the hoover dam so he could ranch in the desert. really, that guy.

  6. #81
    The Boognish FuzzyLumpkins's Avatar
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    Las Vegas Sun had the guy who ran the lake mead recreation give his side of the story.

    I have been following the news on the proposed roundup of Cliven Bundy’s cattle that are grazing illegally on federal lands in Gold Butte managed on behalf of the public by the Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service.

    I am familiar with the situation, as I served as superintendent of the Lake Mead National Recreation Area for the National Park Service from 1987 to 2000. In 1993, we reduced the number of cows that could be grazed on the Bunkerville allotment to 150 because of the emergency listing of the desert tortoise as an endangered species.

    Because Bundy refused to remove his cattle to meet the 150 level and ignored repeated requests to do so, his permit was canceled in 1994 and the allotment was closed to grazing.

    As the news coverage has reported, Bundy continues to graze his cattle and has refused to pay the BLM a grazing fee. The figure he owes the government exceeds $300,000. The estimate of cattle being grazed illegally since 1994 on the old Bunkerville allotment have ranged from 550 to more than 900.

    It is unfathomable to me that 20 years after the Bunkerville allotment was canceled in 1994, we are still wrestling with getting his cattle off the range. And there were issues of overgrazing that allotment before 1994. It is my opinion that the BLM and the Park Service have done everything possible administratively to try to resolve the issue amicably. In addition, there are two federal court rulings upholding the agencies’ position, and the most recent ruling demanded Bundy not physically interfere with any seizure or impoundment operation.

    Bundy is a bully who has used his threat of a range war and to do “whatever it takes” to stop the government from impounding his cattle to scare public officials.

    The implications are that he would resort to a gunbattle. And who wants to see another Waco? I was one of those public officials who were told to back off at one point because of concern for violence.

    What Bundy is doing is a criminal act, and he should be accountable for his actions rather than be held up as a hero fighting the federal government.

    Most of the grazing permit holders on public land are good stewards and law-abiding citizens, and Bundy is doing them a disservice with his actions. He is a perfect example of someone who publicly states that he abhors the federal government but who relies on it for his welfare.

    He is grazing free on the public’s land to the detriment of the environment and the honest taxpayers who support his welfare lifestyle.

    What if other people decide that they are also going to do whatever they want on federal land regardless of the law and stake claims to that right? A civil society has to have some rules and laws or we would have total chaos.

    Bundy has no guaranteed rights on federal land. He only has rights to what he owns privately, yet when you hear him talk, he considers that he has some intergenerational rights to use more than 158,000 acres as he sees fit. And this is some of the most beautiful and important public land in America. What a deal. Wouldn’t any of us like to have such rights?

    I am hopeful that the BLM and the Park Service stand strong and conduct the roundup as needed and not be bullied by someone who seems inclined to continue to break the law and brag about it as “the last cowboy standing.” What a warped self-perception and view of his contribution to humanity.
    http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014...ully-not-hero/

    Thus the snipers.

  7. #82
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
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    Fuzzy regulating with facts and logic.

    @ teapotty TSA trying to maintain a semblance of credibility with some actual facts while interspersing right wing propaganda because he just can't help himself.

    Like poison interlaced with the meat.

  8. #83
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    Sean Hannity inflames brewing ‘range war’ between feds, militia over NV cattle roundup

    Sean Hannity promoted a stubborn Nevada rancher as a right-wing martyr Wednesday night on his Fox News program.

    A writer for the conservative Tea Party Tribune portrayed the situation in rather stark terms.

    “Now just to make clear how the federal government feels about we the people , remember that this same federal government pays for the killing of human beings in the womb – we call it abortion – and this same federal government is willing to kill an adult human being Cliven Bundy over a desert tortoise which in reality may or may not even be endangered,” wrote contributor Jake Baker.

    “This is public land, and it’s not being used, in my mind, and I’m not a rancher, (but) I would think the federal government might be thankful because you’re cutting the lawn for free, and they’re charging huge amounts of money, right, to let your cattle graze there with these fees,” Hannity said.

    “When you graze your cattle there, you keep the price of meat down for the American consumer,” Hannity said.

    “The United States courts (have) ordered that the government can seize my cattle, but what they have done is they’ve seized Nevada statehood, Nevada law, Clark County public land, access to their land, and they’ve seized access to all the other rights of Clark County people that like to go hunting and fishing, they’ve closed all those things down, and we’re here to protest that action,” the rancher said. “We’re after freedom; we’re after some liberty.”

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/10/sean-hannity-inflames-brewing-range-war-between-feds-militia-over-nv-cattle-roundup/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaig n=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story%29

    “We’re after freedom; we’re after some liberty.” iow, "I'm after FREE cattle feed and bigger profits."



  9. #84
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    Absolutely. The guys family has the property for what? 200 years, then the government takes it away, little by little...

  10. #85
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    The governor won't touch this. They're not owed the money and it's bad politics for them. Plus there's a few federal court orders in place, the state has dubious, if any, standing to get in the way.
    Yeah, makes no sense for the state to get involved period. Not Nevada's land, not their cattle, not their responsibility, and no way the Feds should cower to this dumbass.

  11. #86
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    Fuzzy regulating with facts and logic.

    @ teapotty TSA trying to maintain a semblance of credibility with some actual facts while interspersing right wing propaganda because he just can't help himself.

    Like poison interlaced with the meat.
    Pusher with the docking in Fuzzy goods.

  12. #87
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    Pusher with the docking in Fuzzy goods.
    logically dismantled

  13. #88
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    Yeah, makes no sense for the state to get involved period. Not Nevada's land, not their cattle, not their responsibility, and no way the Feds should cower to this dumbass.
    Sheriff able to broker a deal. BLM pulling out. It's over. Militias will now think they've won something and will feel empowered. Won't be long before bloodshed over another stupid issue.

  14. #89
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Well, this is terrible news for boutons....no dead ranchers.

  15. #90
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Sheriff able to broker a deal. BLM pulling out. It's over. Militias will now think they've won something and will feel empowered. Won't be long before bloodshed over another stupid issue.
    Link? Didn't see anything.

  16. #91
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    Link? Didn't see anything.
    However, today the BLM said it would not enforce a court order to remove the cattle and was pulling out of the area.

    "Based on information about conditions on the ground, and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public," BLM Director Neil Kornze said.

    "We ask that all parties in the area remain peaceful and law-abiding as the Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service work to end the operation in an orderly manner," he said.

    The roundup began April 5, following lengthy court proceedings dating back to 1993, federal officials said. Federal officers began impounding the first lot of cows last weekend, and Bundy responded by inviting supporters onto his land to protest the action.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/nevada-catt...ry?id=23302610

  17. #92
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    Well, this is terrible news for boutons....no dead ranchers.
    Yeah, that would have been great, to have another group of anti-government lunatics pull a second Oklahoma City in response. boutons would have loved that for all the thinkprogress linkdumping he could do here.

  18. #93
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    He's gonna do it anyway

  19. #94
    Take the fcking keys away baseline bum's Avatar
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    However, today the BLM said it would not enforce a court order to remove the cattle and was pulling out of the area.

    "Based on information about conditions on the ground, and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concern about the safety of employees and members of the public," BLM Director Neil Kornze said.

    "We ask that all parties in the area remain peaceful and law-abiding as the Bureau of Land Management and National Park Service work to end the operation in an orderly manner," he said.

    The roundup began April 5, following lengthy court proceedings dating back to 1993, federal officials said. Federal officers began impounding the first lot of cows last weekend, and Bundy responded by inviting supporters onto his land to protest the action.

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/nevada-catt...ry?id=23302610
    The Neville Chamberlain route. Now no one has to obey laws for grazing on federal land.

  20. #95
    🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆 ElNono's Avatar
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    The Neville Chamberlain route. Now no one has to obey laws for grazing on federal land.
    They'll be back... probably take them another 20 years...

  21. #96
    Veteran Th'Pusher's Avatar
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    The rabble thoroughly roused.

  22. #97
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    From what I can gather one of the the main beef (pun intended) the guy has is they just want him off the land no matter what and he doesn't want to leave.

    Originally the grazing fees were intended to fund improvements to the area (like fences) so the ranchers accepted them and paid them. Then they started using the fees to buy out the ranchers and get them off the land. He is the last hold-out.

    Only when he stopped cooperating they went to the endangered tortoise card to get him kicked off the land. Then they got courts to go along with it and etc etc.

    From his point of view it's basically a federal land grab which he sees as illegal since the fix was in from day 1. They just used whatever means they could to get their pre-planned objective achieved.

  23. #98
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    The rabble thoroughly roused.
    Snipers will do that.

  24. #99
    wrong about pizzagate TSA's Avatar
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    The rabble thoroughly roused.
    Do you not think the ties between Reid, his son, and Kornze are the least bit concerning?

  25. #100
    I play pretty, no? TeyshaBlue's Avatar
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    Not in relation to this.

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