*ding ding*
Lulz?
*ding ding*
Stone on stone goes clunk, clunk...
Russia, China, India & Brazil > USA, UK & Israel
By what metric? Economic Growth?
Population.
BRIC's rule? Seriously? This is where we're at?
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/game-changer--5But having a passenger plane, filled with EU citizens, shot out of the sky above what is presumed to be the bubble of first world safety that is "Europe" is a game changing event not only in the Ukraine crisis but much more broadly about Putin's role in Europe generally.
In a paradoxical way, I think the future ramifications of this are almost greater because it is about Russia's recklessness and bumbling than it would be if it were more clearly a matter of intent. This is a f'-up on Putin's part of almost mind-boggling proportions. Yes, a tragedy. Yes, perhaps an atrocity. But almost more threatening, a screw up. Malign intent is one thing. So is aggression. But goofs of this magnitude by someone who controls a massive military arsenal and nuclear weapons are in a way more threatening.
paranoia ritually inflates the threat. it's sort of a liberal third-world chic in reverse...BRICS as bogey man
(dramatic look gopher)
From article
"Find extremists and hot-heads of the lowest common denominator variety, seed them with weaponry only a few militaries in the world possess - and, well, just see what happens. What could go wrong?"
He's talking about the neo-nazis USA funded right?
he's talking about the separatists Putin gave SAMs to
Who flies over a Warzone. How fkn stupid.
TEN QUESTIONS FOR THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES
1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on?
2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don’t have any planes?
3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an international commission? When will such a commission begin its work?
4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?
5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?
6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to deviate from the regular route to the north, towards “the anti-terrorist operation zone”?
7. Why was airspace over the warzone not closed for civilian flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems?
8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic controller who works in Ukraine, that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory?
9. Why did Ukraine’s Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian radars without waiting for international investigators?
10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine’s Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty.
Apparently quite a few airlines. This was not the only plane that has routinely flown that route.
This war was supposedly limited in scope. 6 miles up, who has missiles capable of going 6 miles into the air that require some sophisticated operators? That would shoot at civilian aircraft... Well, apparently Russia.
Putin started something he can't control.
He has learned a lesson.
And in the end it will be a hard lesson on his little group up top.
Ukraine did not shoot the aircraft.
Keep deflecting the issue.
And you should like them, they have a decent size Nazi element.
I seriously doubt it. I vaguely remember that timeframe, and that's a conspiracy theory.
CIA forcing 007 not to divert? anybody have any evidence?
007 refusing to divert? It didn't divert, navigation error?
"in 1983 that the Reagan Administration in the US had the incentive to open up GPS for civilian applications so that aircraft, shipping, and transport the world over could fix their positions and avoid straying into restricted foreign territory."
http://www.mio.com/technology-history-of-gps.htm
and did 007 hear a diversion demand from Russians?
As with so many of this events, the truth is difficult to know, until maybe decades later, but incredible govt secrecy keeps the docs TOP SECRET for decades, if not longer. One of head Cheney's nasty acts upon stealing into the WH was to re-classify Ms of docs that had been in the public domain for years.
Ukraine Accuses Insurgents of Blocking Access to Crash Site
The Ukrainian government accused Russian-backed insurgents on Saturday of blocking recovery workers from the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, which was shot down by a missile on Thursday, and of trying to destroy evidence surrounding the attack.
“The Russian-led terrorists are preventing access of the international community and foreign governments to the location where the Malaysia Airlines airplane crashed on July 17 and are obstructing the launch of an investigation,” the government’s statement said.
The government said that it had information that 38 bodies were taken to the morgue in Donetsk, a regional capital that is a rebel stronghold.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/20/wo...v=lede-package
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...n-and-kal-007/It is too early to judge the U.S. response in full, of course – Obama is apparently planning a national address – but it is worth recalling that Reagan’s own response in 1983 did not get good reviews from the Fox News of the day. According to Richard Reeves’s “President Reagan,” (see p167-70), the administration was seen as far too weak.
True, the president’s nationally televised address on Sept. 5 was full of strong rhetorical condemnation: Reagan called the Soviet action “monstrous,” “murderous,” and “born of a society which wantonly disregards individual rights and the value of human life.”
But little action followed. Reagan demanded an apology to the world and continued a number of sanctions — but he decided not to end grain sales to the USSR or to suspend arms control talks. George Will argued that “the administration is pathetic…. We didn’t elect a dictionary. We elected a President and it’s time for him to act.” The Manchester Union-Leader editorialized that “if someone had told us three years ago that the Russians could blow a civilian airliner out of the skies – and not face one whit of retaliation from a Ronald Reagan administration, we would have called that crazy. It is crazy. It is insane. It is exactly what happened.”
Even at the height of the Cold War, however — and keeping in mind that the flight had departed from the U.S., with dozens of American passengers, including a sitting member of Congress – Reagan told a National Security Meeting that “we’ve got to protect against overreaction. Vengeance isn’t the name of the game.”
Blaming the target. Inane.
Ukraine Says It Can Prove Russia Supplied Arms System That Felled Jet
The Ukrainian government said on Saturday, that it had proof that Russia had provided the surface-to-air missile system that shot down a Malaysia Airlines passenger jet over eastern Ukraine on Thursday, killing all 298 people aboard.
Ukraine accused Russia and separatist rebels in the east of trying to cover-up their role by blocking recovery workers from the crash site, removing evidence and driving the missile launchers back to Russia just hours after the crash.
At a news conference in Kiev, Vitaly Nayda, the head of counterintelligence for the Ukrainian State Security Service, displayed photographs that he said showed three of the Buk-M1 missile systems on the road to the Russian border.
Two of the devices, which are missile launchers mounted on an armored vehicle, crossed the border into Russia at about 2 a.m. Friday, or less than 10 hours after the jet, Flight 17, was blown apart in midair, he said.
The third weapon crossed at about 4 a.m.
Mr. Nayda said that the missile had been fired from the town of Snizhne, located in rebel-controlled territory, echoing American intelligence showing the missile coming from eastern Ukraine.
Both the Ukrainians and the Americans said they believed that the separatist rebels would have needed help from Russia in order to fire the antiaircraft missiles.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/20/wo...v=lede-package
341 murdered in Palestine. Who cares about planes in Ukraine
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