***** The Official 2014 Avante Football Thread *****

[Avante]

Barring injuries I think we've seen enought by now to get a pretty good read on who has what. No not after 2-4 games like a lot of you play, but after 7/8, sure.

The Colts will play the Broncos in the AFC le game. The NFC a little more...????? We can't ignore Cowboy history and how they struggle in Nov/Dec. The Seahawks/Niners? Then there's GB, Philly and Arizona....hmmm?

[Avante]

I've read/heard both 5-7 and 5-8 for Brenden Oliver, I'm guessing 5-7. As we know he's out of Buffalo, we also know he needs to be out in space not in between the tackles.

So who were those little backs, guys similiar to Oliver?

The first was Claude 'Buddy" Young Illinois/Colts a legit 'world class" sprinter, once held the WR in the 60. He had six kick returns for td's. First great black speed/elusive black running back all 5-4 of him.

"Mini" Mack Herron Kansas State/Pats 5-5 170

Eric Bieniemy Colorado/Chargers 5-7 207

Steve Broussard WSU/Falcons 5-7 201

Ricky Ervins USC/Redskins 5-7 195

Lionel "Little Train" James Auburn/Chargers 5-6 170

Howard Stevens Louisville/Saints 5-5 165...left the college game as the all time NCAA rushing leader

Darren Sproles Kansas State/Saints 5-6 181

[spurraider21]

Doug Martin...

[Avante]

Doug Martin...

I was looking for those at 5-7 and shorter, Martin and Ray Rice are 5-9, MJD at 5-8.

[spurraider21]

I was looking for those at 5-7 and shorter, Martin and Ray Rice are 5-9, MJD at 5-8.

i know, but since you listed rice and MJD i figured it was fair to include the muscle hamster

[Avante]

i know, but since you listed rice and MJD i figured it was fair to include the muscle hamster

I listed Rice/MJD because I thought they were shorter than 5-8 then checked it out...nope! The fact they are bulky/muscular makes them look shorter than they are, same with Martin.

Would you believe a starting NFL QB...5-8?

[Aztecfan03]

I've read/heard both 5-7 and 5-8 for Brenden Oliver, I'm guessing 5-7. As we know he's out of Buffalo, we also know he needs to be out in space not in between the tackles.

So who were those little backs, guys similiar to Oliver?

The first was Claude 'Buddy" Young Illinois/Colts a legit 'world class" sprinter, once held the WR in the 60. He had six kick returns for td's. First great black speed/elusive black running back all 5-4 of him.

"Mini" Mack Herron Kansas State/Pats 5-5 170

Eric Bieniemy Colorado/Chargers 5-7 207

Steve Broussard WSU/Falcons 5-7 201

Ricky Ervins USC/Redskins 5-7 195

Lionel "Little Train" James 5-6 170

Howard Stevens Louisville/Saints 5-5 165...left the college game as the all time NCAA rushing leader

Darren Sproles Kansas State/Saints 5-6 181

He is supposedly 5-6. The difference between him and sproles is he has more strength while sproles is a lot quicker. That's partly why he isn't only used out in space.

[Avante]

As we know Oliver was out of Buffalo, not known as a football powerhouse. And why he wasn't drafted, that and his size.

The best 10 NFL backs out of those small schools. Other than HBCU schools.

10. Bass UOP/Rams....their first 1000 yard rusher.
9. Eugene "Mercury" Morris West Texas State
8. Stump Mitc The Citadel/Cards
7. Terry Metcalf Long Beach State/Cards
6. Wilbert Montgomery Abilene Christian/Eagles
5. Abner Haynes North Texas State/Chiefs....first AFL rushing leader
4. Calvin Hill Yale/Cowboys....their first 1000 yard rusher
3. Chris Warren Furman/Seahawks....was their all time leading rusher when he retired.
2. Christian "The Nigerian Nightmare" Okoye Azusa Pacific/Chiefs....retired as their all time leading rusher
1. Joe 'The Jet" Perry...Compton JC/Niners...first black to rush for a 1000 yards, first to have two consecutive 1000 yard seasons, first JC only back to have a 1000 yard season and still is. Retired as the NFL's all time leading rusher.

Then there was Carlton "Cookie" Gilchrist who went straight from HS to the CFL. Yep, no college. He was a 250 pound fullback when he signed with the Bills, he would become the old AFL's first 1000 yard rusher and was known as.....the Jim Brown of the AFL.

[Avante]

He is supposedly 5-6. The difference between him and sproles is he has more strength while sproles is a lot quicker. That's partly why he isn't only used out in space.

I mentioned that somewhere out there, yep, he packs more of a punch than Sproles but isn't as fast. Haven't read 5-6, do think he's a little taller than that.

[chunticakes]

Yeah I agree with both of you but as we know, Denver at home in a prime time spot, refs are gonna give them the edge.

[Avante]

Yeah I agree with both of you but as we know, Denver at home in a prime time spot, refs are gonna give them the edge.

Chargers beat them in Denver on a Thursday night in 2013, so...hmmmmm?

[Avante]

As we learned in tonights game, Antonio Gates became the all time Chargers leader in receiving yards, beating Lance Alworths record.

Lance Alworth was a sprinter/long jumper in track while at Arkansas and a running back, he became a wide receiver as a Charger. He was amazing and the smoothest/slickest receiver ever, as you will see.




When he first arrived in San Diego the Chargers had Tobin Rote at QB, an all pro, the great Paul Lowe at running back and the just as great Keith Lincoln*** at Fullback. There has still never been a better backfield ever (Alworth a flanker). All 4 were all stars.

*** he scored ....

rushing
passing
receiving
punt return
kickoff return
PAT
field goal

When was the last time you saw a fullback returning kicks?

[chunticakes]

Chargers beat them in Denver on a Thursday night in 2013, so...hmmmmm?

They weren't riddled with injuries in the secondary. Who was the last 5'8" QB to start in the NFL Avante?

[Avante]

They weren't riddled with injuries in the secondary. Who was the last 5'8" QB to start in the NFL Avante?

My bad, he was 5-7
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_LeBaron

[Avante]

You can't talk great Charger receivers and not talk John Jefferson. We won''t see him on any list because he got full of himself and wanted too much$$$$ so he got shipped off to Green Bay and......poof!!!!! If he'd stayed in San Diego for 10 years or so he'd be right there with the greats, he belongs.




See how sad this is, he deserves better than that.

[Avante]

Tonight we saw two original AFL teams play (Chargers did start out in LA)

This is what season number one looked like in 1960 with the teams first stud QB/RB/WR not saying they were there at the same time.

west

LA Chargers...Tobin Rote/Paul Lowe/Lance Alworth
Oakland Raiders...Daryl Lamonica/Clem Daneils/Art Powell
Dallas Texans (Chiefs)...Len Dawson/Abner Haynes/Otis Taylor (had the best TE in AFL history....Fred Arbansas)
Denver Broncos...Frank Tripuka/Billy Joe/Lionel Taylor

east

New York ans/Jets...Joe Namath/Matt Snell/Don Maynard
Buffalo Bils...Jack Kemp/Cookie Gilchrist/Elbert "Golden Wheels" Dubenion
Houston Oilers...George Blanda/Charley Tolar/Charley Hennigan
Boston Patriots...Babe Parilli/Larry Garron/Gino Capelletti

The biggest differences between the AFL and the NFL was lack of defense in the AFL, which weird as it seems made for more exciting football, yep, more scoring. The second big difference was the huge % of black players per team, the AFL was loaded with them, the NFL made an effort to not let that happen. We also saw a lot more small college players in the AFL.

[Avante]

As of right now...

NYJ-3....Buff a bad road team vs the divsion and totally suck before their bye week.
Indy-3....shocked the line is this low
Philly + 2.5....the best team in the league SU coming off a bye...21-5
Miami-6....good team playing a bad team
Houston-2....5-1ATS last 6, now vs QB starting his first game.
Baltimore PK....the Ravens are hot, without A.J.Green the Bengals are struggling

Thinking about stepping out on the Packers and Cowboys.(will play 7's but try not too unless taking points)

Might add more or change my mind on some before Sunday.

In all my years of watching pro football I have never had to get up at what...6am...to see a game. Yep, weird! I see the Lions covering for the simple fact the Falcons totally suck on the road but wil lay off the game because ya just never know where these guys heads are at in this unique "spot'.

I mentioned the Chiefs as a possible play, don't like playing 7's. Now we are talking having to win by two scores. Don't like the "spot'.

As far as London having an NFL team, I do see that franchise having a hard time signing free agents. Not too many would want to move the family to another country, I know I wouldn't.

23-20 +500

[Avante]

While we have seen...

Mac Speedie and Dante Levelli Browns way back when
Ray Berry, John Mackey and Lenny Moore...first great receiving back
Swann & Stallworth
Biletnikoff & Branch
Harrison & Wayne
Conrad & Randle
Charlie Joiner, John Jefferson, Kelllen Winslow....the guy who really changed the TE position, no not Tony Gonzalez.
and a few other receiving duos/gangs (Greatest Show on Turf)

....we have never seen what we are seing now with the Broncos. Four quality receivers all there at the same time, all having their own little thang. The matchup nigtmare TE, that quick slot man, the speed demon and the can do it all. If all these guys stay healthy (wel everyone actually) the Broncos won't be denied a SB ring.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

While here...

The Cowboys with a monster line..

Aikman/Romo
Smith/Murray
Novacek/Witthum
Irvin/Bryant

Hmmmm?

[chunticakes]

Hmmmm?

[Avante]

Ronnie Hillman and the Denver Broncos running backs.

Their first stud back was a big 250 fullback out of Villanova named...Billy Joe...yep, Billy Joe. He was a load, a genuine thumper. He'd win the Rookie of the Year Award. The first "Great" back they had was Floyd Little out of Syracuse, cat was bow-legged, actually looked strange. He had good speed with power could do it all. He is in the HOF.....but don't really see that.

Otis Armstrong out of Purdue was a 1000 yard rusher and one of the best in the league, in a word...shifty.

Terrell Davis (LBSt/Georgia) was the best back the franchise ever had, he was the total package and if he'd played longer would be among the top rushers ever.

Can't ignore 1000 yard rushers...

Gaston Green UCLA
Olandis Gary Miami?
Mike Anderson Utah

The Broncos have never had a real speedy back like Ronnie Hillman, a guy who can go the distance from anywhere on the field.

Ok who did I forget?

Hillman is out of San Diego State the school that Marshall Faulk went to. Will never figure out how he got there, he was from Louisiana, how he escaped the south...??????

[Malik Hairston]

As of right now...

NYJ-3....Buff a bad road team vs the divsion and totally suck before their bye week.
Indy-3....shocked the line is this low
Philly + 2.5....the best team in the league SU coming off a bye...21-5
Miami-6....good team playing a bad team
Houston-2....5-1ATS last 6, now vs QB starting his first game.
Baltimore PK....the Ravens are hot, without A.J.Green the Bengals are struggling

Thinking about stepping out on the Packers and Cowboys.(will play 7's but try not too unless taking points)

Might add more or change my mind on some before Sunday.

In all my years of watching pro football I have never had to get up at what...6am...to see a game. Yep, weird! I see the Lions covering for the simple fact the Falcons totally suck on the road but wil lay off the game because ya just never know where these guys heads are at in this unique "spot'.

I mentioned the Chiefs as a possible play, don't like playing 7's. Now we are talking having to win by two scores. Don't like the "spot'.

As far as London having an NFL team, I do see that franchise having a hard time signing free agents. Not too many would want to move the family to another country, I know I wouldn't.

23-20 +500

You taking the Packers or Cowboys on primetime, tbh?..

[spurraider21]

As of right now...

NYJ-3....Buff a bad road team vs the divsion and totally suck before their bye week. - Lost
Indy-3....shocked the line is this low
Philly + 2.5....the best team in the league SU coming off a bye...21-5
Miami-6....good team playing a bad team - Won
Houston-2....5-1ATS last 6, now vs QB starting his first game. - Won
Baltimore PK....the Ravens are hot, without A.J.Green the Bengals are struggling - Lost

Thinking about stepping out on the Packers and Cowboys.(will play 7's but try not too unless taking points)

Might add more or change my mind on some before Sunday.

In all my years of watching pro football I have never had to get up at what...6am...to see a game. Yep, weird! I see the Lions covering for the simple fact the Falcons totally suck on the road but wil lay off the game because ya just never know where these guys heads are at in this unique "spot'.

I mentioned the Chiefs as a possible play, don't like playing 7's. Now we are talking having to win by two scores. Don't like the "spot'.

As far as London having an NFL team, I do see that franchise having a hard time signing free agents. Not too many would want to move the family to another country, I know I wouldn't.

23-20 +500

2-2 today with Eagles/Colts pending

[chunticakes]

ing steelers have been trolling me all season long. Losing when they're supposed to win and winning when they're supposed to lose.

[Avante]

There are a ton of trends that favor NO in this spot, but I might as well end the first half of the season with a bang. I do have some $$$$$ to play with.

I'll take the Packers plus the 1.5. Worst I can do is break even at 25-25. With nine weeks/playoffs to go. I can't ignore Aaron Rodgers in a big night game vs that D.

But...the Saints are something like 11-0 at home in these prime time games. This is more of......knowing it gets easier in the second half thing. So plenty of time to hit that 60-65%.

So it's Aaron Rodgers vs a strong trend.

[chunticakes]

2-2 today with Eagles/Colts pending

2-4