Texas v. Baylor: The Rapening

[Obstructed_View]

You do realize that Texas's talent level is significantly less than Baylor's?

Baylor has inferior talent?
Now?

Surely you jest...

These are the rankings from Rivals.com. Did UT have blue-chip athletes that failed out of class or got thrown in jail? Unless I'm reading this wrong (which is always possible) I'm having a hard time seeing recruiting, and therefore, talent, as the big stumbling block for the university. You guys follow the team. Do you really think they aren't underachieving?

2010
UT #3
Baylor #39

2011
UT #3
Baylor #46

2012
UT #2
Baylor #45

2013
UT #24
Baylor #31

2014
UT #20
Baylor #35

I never said Baylor had no talent, but as loaded as they are lately, they are not even closing the gap in the last two years on Texas.

I think previous UT teams that were really good got there because they had talent AND they worked their asses off to be the best team they could be. I think the current team thinks they are something better than they are because of those earlier teams. I like Charlie Strong, and I think he will probably be the guy to turn all that around, and it might not take long for the light to come on with those guys. Texas will surprise someone before the season's out. It could certainly be Baylor if they think they can just show up and win, especially if they make the mistake of thinking they're more talented than Texas.

[pgardn]

These are the rankings from Rivals.com. Did UT have blue-chip athletes that failed out of class or got thrown in jail? Unless I'm reading this wrong (which is always possible) I'm having a hard time seeing recruiting, and therefore, talent, as the big stumbling block for the university. You guys follow the team. Do you really think they aren't underachieving?

2010
UT #3
Baylor #39

2011
UT #3
Baylor #46

2012
UT #2
Baylor #45

2013
UT #24
Baylor #31

2014
UT #20
Baylor #35

I never said Baylor had no talent, but as loaded as they are lately, they are not even closing the gap in the last two years on Texas.

I think previous UT teams that were really good got there because they had talent AND they worked their asses off to be the best team they could be. I think the current team thinks they are something better than they are because of those earlier teams. I like Charlie Strong, and I think he will probably be the guy to turn all that around, and it might not take long for the light to come on with those guys. Texas will surprise someone before the season's out. It could certainly be Baylor if they think they can just show up and win, especially if they make the mistake of thinking they're more talented than Texas.

To to with the rankings. I am looking at the kids that are playing on the field right now.

Go man for man down both rosters of starters.
You win. It's pretty damn obvious.

And the most impactful position on the field you win by a mile.
Tell us how Texas is supposed to win with a HS offense and a defense that has already been scrambled by BYU. It's gonna have to be Baylor making lots of mistakes. Penalties and turnovers on offense. Just how in the does a HS offense move the ball against you? How?

[Obstructed_View]

To to with the rankings. I am looking at the kids that are playing on the field right now.

Go man for man down both rosters of starters.
You win. It's pretty damn obvious.

And the most impactful position on the field you win by a mile.
Tell us how Texas is supposed to win with a HS offense and a defense that has already been scrambled by BYU. It's gonna have to be Baylor making lots of mistakes. Penalties and turnovers on offense. Just how in the does a HS offense move the ball against you? How?

I didn't say I thought UT was going to win, but you can't just say the Longhorns don't have any talent and then scoff at the facts about their recruiting. I'm not in any way saying Baylor is bereft of talent, because they're as good as they've ever been, ridiculously deep at certain positions, and don't seem to have a real weakness (other than their kicker). I assume you're referring to quarterback as the most impactful position, and experience and system are probably the major factors there. I'm not convinced that any of the QBs Baylor has had; while smart, athletic, and effective; are anything more than system quarterbacks. You could make a case that Briles had more QB talent at Houston (Keenum and Kolb).

Back when Chuck Reedy was the coach at Baylor, they were getting really good recruits because they'd sign guys that other schools wouldn't take a chance on, usually for academic or injury reasons, and ended up with an artificially high ranking. Reedy's recruiting was slightly better than his coaching, so he needed all the help he could get.

Could it be that UT has been recruiting the wrong guys with no concept of need or team iden y, or overlooking character issues in order to land someone that's rated high? I'd give you that if you thought it was a factor. But I can't help but think it's ignorant to point to talent as a major factor when they've been pulling in better recruiting classes than Florida State, let alone little Baylor.

How their offense and defense execute are coaching and team-play issues. We've seen talented teams melt down before because of a lack of cohesion or cancerous players in the locker room.

We may disagree about the exact reasons why UT isn't better than they are, but you have to admit that they've been underachieving to some degree for a couple of years now.

[Obstructed_View]

By the way, you guys need to remember that Baylor stunk when I chose them as "my team", and I root for them because my wife is an alum.

[Kermit]

Could it be that UT has been recruiting the wrong guys with no concept of need or team iden y, or overlooking character issues in order to land someone that's rated high?

You think? Also, they've had an absence of coaching, ignored the tight end position, failed to field an offensive line, omg the quarterback situation, and Mack Brown. Meanwhile Art Briles is quietly spinning yarn into gold. Amazing what quality coaching will do for hungry, pissed off young men.

[TFloss32]

Re strength

My goodness.

Kid just needs some 1980s orthodontic head gear and he's set.

[Obstructed_View]

You think? Also, they've had an absence of coaching, ignored the tight end position, failed to field an offensive line, omg the quarterback situation, and Mack Brown. Meanwhile Art Briles is quietly spinning yarn into gold. Amazing what quality coaching will do for hungry, pissed off young men.

Also having a strong team iden y and being able to tweak it to fit your personnel, which Briles has done since he coached high school. I have no great love for UT, but I do like Charlie. Hoping he's the real deal and turns the team around.

[Obstructed_View]

My goodness.

Kid just needs some 1980s orthodontic head gear and he's set.

Ehrmagherd!

[pgardn]

I didn't say I thought UT was going to win, but you can't just say the Longhorns don't have any talent and then scoff at the facts about their recruiting. I'm not in any way saying Baylor is bereft of talent, because they're as good as they've ever been, ridiculously deep at certain positions, and don't seem to have a real weakness (other than their kicker). I assume you're referring to quarterback as the most impactful position, and experience and system are probably the major factors there. I'm not convinced that any of the QBs Baylor has had; while smart, athletic, and effective; are anything more than system quarterbacks. You could make a case that Briles had more QB talent at Houston (Keenum and Kolb).

Back when Chuck Reedy was the coach at Baylor, they were getting really good recruits because they'd sign guys that other schools wouldn't take a chance on, usually for academic or injury reasons, and ended up with an artificially high ranking. Reedy's recruiting was slightly better than his coaching, so he needed all the help he could get.

Could it be that UT has been recruiting the wrong guys with no concept of need or team iden y, or overlooking character issues in order to land someone that's rated high? I'd give you that if you thought it was a factor. But I can't help but think it's ignorant to point to talent as a major factor when they've been pulling in better recruiting classes than Florida State, let alone little Baylor.

How their offense and defense execute are coaching and team-play issues. We've seen talented teams melt down before because of a lack of cohesion or cancerous players in the locker room.

We may disagree about the exact reasons why UT isn't better than they are, but you have to admit that they've been underachieving to some degree for a couple of years now.

Where did I say UT does not have any talent?

The Bears have more on the field.

I never said they were not underachieving the past few years. Why do you think Mack lost his job...
Again, I don't give a flying flip how recruiting classes are rated. The horses are out of the barn and have run on the track. If you can't see Baylor has more talent on the field you are living with the Baylor reputation and the UT reputation of the past. Which is your argument basically.

UT has a very large following for whatever reasons. But ANY real UT fan knows we have been severely humbled in the past. We have had to live with some humiliating beat downs. Part of being a fan is staying one when your team stinks.

I guess this board is loaded with en led Spurs fans who have no clue what the team was like when Willie Anderson was our best player.

[rjv]

if anyone would have told me, back in 2005, that the longhorns would be underdogs (by the largest margin in school history) for a home game and then told me the game was against baylor, i would have thought they were on crack.

[pgardn]

if anyone would have told me, back in 2005, that the longhorns would be underdogs (by the largest margin in school history) for a home game and then told me the game was against baylor, i would have thought they were on crack.

Iowa 55. Texas 17 bowl game, take a read. A mere 7 years after getting beat for a National le in the Cotton Bowl with Earl. Bad History tends to get overlooked.

[rjv]

Iowa 55. Texas 17 bowl game, take a read. A mere 7 years after getting beat for a National le in the Cotton Bowl with Earl. Bad History tends to get overlooked.

but this is history. the biggest point spread against texas at home ever. and against baylor. not a bowl game in a neutral site. not against a consistently good big X team. this is against a team that was fortunate enough to have anne richards pull strings to get them into the big XII. the point is, times have changed. texas will definitely get better again but their days of dominance in the state of texas are over.

[pgardn]

but this is history. the biggest point spread against texas at home ever. and against baylor. not a bowl game in a neutral site. not against a consistently good big X team. this is against a team that was fortunate enough to have anne richards pull strings to get them into the big XII. the point is, times have changed. texas will definitely get better again but their days of dominance in the state of texas are over.

The dominance could easily return. Totally disagree they never return.
Never overlook this huge advantage:

Austin

Lubbock
College Station
Waco

[rjv]

The dominance could easily return. Totally disagree they never return.
Never overlook this huge advantage:

Austin

Lubbock
College Station
Waco

although some kids may base their destination on what city the get to reside in, i think that is less and less a factor than it may have been before. to assume that the reason UT had such success in recruiting was because it is based in austin is putting the cart before the horse. it was the name brand that got kids excited and being in austin didn't hurt. but kids can party and get laid in any college town for that matter. there is so much more to sell them now than just the city.

[Obstructed_View]

Where did I say UT does not have any talent?

Sorry, I guess when you started an argument when I pointed out UT's talent, said that they had a high school offense and scoffed at the high rankings of UT's recruiting classes, not to mention saying that Baylor had better players at every position that you were saying something about their talent. David Ash and Tyrone Swoops were ranked higher than any Baylor QB since Robert Griffin. Baylor has NEVER had a recruiting class ranked higher than UT's. Baylor doesn't compete for the players UT gets, they compete for the players UT doesn't want. It's beyond re ed just to suggest that UT doesn't have as much talent as any school in the country from year to year.

The Bears have more on the field.

They have better coaches, a better system, better support from the school, and they've been recruiting guys who fit that system and who work hard toward a common goal.

I never said they were not underachieving the past few years.

Then you should probably stop arguing about their talent. When an underachieving team wins 8 games, that means they have high-level talent. UT had a lot of turmoil, started the season poorly and still won 8 games, played Baylor (having their best year EVER) in the final game for the conference championship and went to a bowl and ended the season nationally ranked.

Why do you think Mack lost his job...

Because the en led fans and the boosters, who run the program, got it in their head that they could get Nick Saban or poach Briles from Baylor. They'd already forced Dodds out so that they wouldn't have anyone to stick up for Mack. They needed a scapegoat for the fact that they weren't winning national championships.

Again, I don't give a flying flip how recruiting classes are rated. The horses are out of the barn and have run on the track. If you can't see Baylor has more talent on the field you are living with the Baylor reputation and the UT reputation of the past. Which is your argument basically.

Actually, my argument is that UT is living on their reputation and Baylor isn't. Baylor is getting everything they can out of their talent and UT isn't, but the teams aren't really that far apart, and UT's massive talent advantage is the great equalizer. Baylor has better coaches, a better system, and doesn't have legions of en led fans second-guessing everything that goes wrong or screeching for a new coach after the humiliation of back-to back 8-win seasons. They certainly don't have anyone saying that the recruiting class rankings must be wrong after a bad loss and wishing for even more four and five star recruits. I'm starting to understand why the Aggie fans are so glad to be in the SEC.

UT has a very large following for whatever reasons. But ANY real UT fan knows we have been severely humbled in the past. We have had to live with some humiliating beat downs. Part of being a fan is staying one when your team stinks.

I guess this board is loaded with en led Spurs fans who have no clue what the team was like when Willie Anderson was our best player.

One losing season in the last 16 years, going to a bowl game every year. Oh, the severity of the humblings! How you hang on, I'll just never know. I can hardly imagine what it's like living with humiliating beat downs like that. I'm just an en led Baylor fan. Baylor's loss to UNLV isn't nearly as embarrassing as UT losing 40-21 at BYU. The university should have had grief counselors at the stadium standing by.

I saw the Spurs beat teams with more talent a lot of times because they knew how to play like a team. One would think a fellow Spurs fan would see the value in that and how it translates to other sports.

[rjv]

who's willie anderson?

[pgardn]

Sorry, I guess when you started an argument when I pointed out UT's talent, said that they had a high school offense and scoffed at the high rankings of UT's recruiting classes, not to mention saying that Baylor had better players at every position that you were saying something about their talent. David Ash and Tyrone Swoops were ranked higher than any Baylor QB since Robert Griffin. Baylor has NEVER had a recruiting class ranked higher than UT's. Baylor doesn't compete for the players UT gets, they compete for the players UT doesn't want. It's beyond re ed just to suggest that UT doesn't have as much talent as any school in the country from year to year.


They have better coaches, a better system, better support from the school, and they've been recruiting guys who fit that system and who work hard toward a common goal.


Then you should probably stop arguing about their talent. When an underachieving team wins 8 games, that means they have high-level talent. UT had a lot of turmoil, started the season poorly and still won 8 games, played Baylor (having their best year EVER) in the final game for the conference championship and went to a bowl and ended the season nationally ranked.


Because the en led fans and the boosters, who run the program, got it in their head that they could get Nick Saban or poach Briles from Baylor. They'd already forced Dodds out so that they wouldn't have anyone to stick up for Mack. They needed a scapegoat for the fact that they weren't winning national championships.


Actually, my argument is that UT is living on their reputation and Baylor isn't. Baylor is getting everything they can out of their talent and UT isn't, but the teams aren't really that far apart, and UT's massive talent advantage is the great equalizer. Baylor has better coaches, a better system, and doesn't have legions of en led fans second-guessing everything that goes wrong or screeching for a new coach after the humiliation of back-to back 8-win seasons. They certainly don't have anyone saying that the recruiting class rankings must be wrong after a bad loss and wishing for even more four and five star recruits. I'm starting to understand why the Aggie fans are so glad to be in the SEC.


One losing season in the last 16 years, going to a bowl game every year. Oh, the severity of the humblings! How you hang on, I'll just never know. I can hardly imagine what it's like living with humiliating beat downs like that. I'm just an en led Baylor fan. Baylor's loss to UNLV isn't nearly as embarrassing as UT losing 40-21 at BYU. The university should have had grief counselors at the stadium standing by.

I saw the Spurs beat teams with more talent a lot of times because they knew how to play like a team. One would think a fellow Spurs fan would see the value in that and how it translates to other sports.

You came on in 99 right? You don't know the soft Spurs and the can't win the big one Spurs.

People who'd don't know UTs history, don't understand. We have been throttled. And some people remember, I am one of them, you are not. History humbles all.

Oh and fck Nick Saban. I was one of the posters that wanted nothing to do with that ****. Briles, total respect. Us trying to get him, I don't know the inside story. But he'll yes we have a bunch of en led Rich ass alumni that think they deserve what they don't and don't remember how to be humble.

That being said I personally will be proud of having a good team to watch with better people on the field. I hope Strong will be given time. Cause we are going to take some losses that build character. And the bowl thing is a cruel joke. We have had no business going to many bowl games. This its for the seniors stuff is BS. Let them be recognized and the banquet. Bowl games are ridiculously out of hand.

[pgardn]

who's willie anderson?

Ask the old ty bars.

[Avante]

who's willie anderson?

When I see that I think "Flipper" Anderson and old UCLA receiver.

[Splits]

Baylor -16

I'm putting $1k on that, they'll cover +20

[pgardn]

although some kids may base their destination on what city the get to reside in, i think that is less and less a factor than it may have been before. to assume that the reason UT had such success in recruiting was because it is based in austin is putting the cart before the horse. it was the name brand that got kids excited and being in austin didn't hurt. but kids can party and get laid in any college town for that matter. there is so much more to sell them now than just the city.

And UT has the huge selling points in other areas as well. There is a definite possibility of us taking a big slice of the pie again. But it might not be so good for the health of the conference.

Austin is still a huge attraction. The diversity of the UT atmosphere is still a big selling point. For out of State kids as well.

[benefactor]

Daje is expected to play

[Obstructed_View]

You came on in 99 right? You don't know the soft Spurs and the can't win the big one Spurs.

I moved to San Antonio in 1990, so they were pretty much always good, much like the Longhorns. It must be my Spurs fandom, because I'm having a hard time recognizing UT's history of struggles when Baylor is coming out of the worst stretch in the school's history.

People who'd don't know UTs history, don't understand. We have been throttled. And some people remember, I am one of them, you are not. History humbles all.

I do know UT's history. UT has fewer losing seasons since their founding than Baylor has since joining the Big XII. Again, educate me on what a spoiled fan I am.

That being said I personally will be proud of having a good team to watch with better people on the field. I hope Strong will be given time. Cause we are going to take some losses that build character. And the bowl thing is a cruel joke. We have had no business going to many bowl games. This its for the seniors stuff is BS. Let them be recognized and the banquet. Bowl games are ridiculously out of hand.

I hope he'll be given time, because I think the team's full of losers and he needs to purge that mentality. Those losers, whether you like it or not, are skating by on their immense talent, which is why they can have a terrible season and still win 8 games and go to a bowl, then say like, "We're still Texas". As for fans, most fans in college football would be proud of an 8-win team. It's kind of a sign of spoiled fans that they aren't, and take playing in non-BCS bowl games for granted.

[benefactor]

My butthole is ready. Bring the big green dong.

[Splits]

Will Petty play more than a half today?